MAGIC! - 25
The following was compiled from the magician's message section of
MAGIC!(tm). MAGIC! is an electronic communications system for
magicians. It may be accessed from any personal computer with a
modem by dialing US 818-896-7450. Access is free, except for
normal telephone company charges. New registrants must leave a
comment with their name, address, phone number and a brief resume
of their magic background to be considered for membership. The
material herein should be treated as confidentially as other
magic information. Copyright 1991 by MAGIC!, All rights reserved.
Msg #2000 Dated 18:12:57 05-08-91 -> 2029
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: FAX TRAX
Get fax?
Msg #2001 Dated 18:44:34 05-08-91 1944 <--> 2009
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NUTTIN
The Biro has landed. At Indianapolis (INDIA-NO-PLACE?) NAP TOWN? Might
go to Illusions tnite if I don't get hit with Jettus Laggus... just now
readin... adios.. looks like lots of good stuff online.
Msg #2002 Dated 18:45:53 05-08-91 1947 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC WORK...
What?
Msg #2003 Dated 18:46:19 05-08-91 1950 <--> 2004
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ELMSLEY COUNT
Fred Kaps used to hold cards between first and second fingers and say,
"Look I can't do anything holding the cards like this!" As he did a top
change! Heheheheheh...
Msg #2004 Dated 18:47:44 05-08-91 1969 <--> 2030
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ELMSLEY COUNT
There are spread versions of the Twisting the Aces, using the Ascanio
spread. I think Mike Rogers published one.
Msg #2005 Dated 18:50:02 05-08-91 1961 <--> 2017
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: QUOTATION MARKS
As you read use white out and get rid of the "nasty" "Quote" "marks".
Msg #2006 Dated 18:52:17 05-08-91 1980 <--> 2395
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VISIT
We can pretend to be Mexican farm workers and sit in back of truck.
Msg #2008 Dated 20:26:06 05-08-91 -> 2010
From: HOWARD SCHWARZMAN
To: ALL
Re: WHO'S INTERESTED?
Perhaps some one might be interested in the following
which appeared in the Baltimore Sunday Sun May 5th.
.
FUN IN FLIGHT
.
So you think you're funny. How
good are your jokes at 35OOO
feet? Virgin Atlantic, which
begins flights out of Boston to
London on May 3O, is looking for
comics, magicians and musicians
to entertain on its flights.
Finalists will perform on May
16. For more information on the
three-minute auditions,
telephone (617) 391-7335.
.
Good luck and let me know how you make out.
Howie.
Msg #2009 Dated 20:45:04 05-08-91 2001 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: NUTTIN
It was in Indianapolis that I got hit with the worst case of Jettus
Laggus I've ever had! Was doing a tour with 14 states in 10 daze. And
not in any reasonable sequence either - stuff like Hartford, Conn. to
Mobile, Ala. to Raleigh, NC to Los Angeles. Woke up in Indy at about
3 a.m. local time with NO IDEA where I was - had to call hotel operator
to ask 1) Where I was, 2) What time zone I was in, and 3) Whether it
was a.m. or p.m.
Hope you do better - give our regards to the Brickyard.
Msg #2010 Dated 20:49:53 05-08-91 2008 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: HOWARD SCHWARZMAN (X)
Re: WHO'S INTERESTED?
Gee, sorta makes me wish I lived in Baltimore. Nah, I'm too fat for
the job - too much practicing for the Oreo one.
Msg #2016 Dated 21:45:36 05-08-91 1999 <--> 2058
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PENN AND TABMAN CANCELLED
I'm tellin ya, Tab...
You woulda been bummed out after having completely DESTROYED Penn
Jillette!!! He would've been a mass of quivering, blubbering hair and
mousse!!!!
Msg #2017 Dated 21:48:44 05-08-91 2005 <--> 2039
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: QUOTATION MARKS
The great thing about reading Harry's books is that you can read them
at a reasonably measured pace and in a pleasant tone of voice...much
more pleasant than his mile-a-second New York pitchman in-person
approach!!!
...
Hey...WELCOME BACK, PETE!
Msg #2018 Dated 21:42:09 05-08-91 -> 2021
From: PATRICE MOORE
To: ALL
Re: FROM MAGICAL PUBLICATIONS
The following is a release going out from Magical Publications this
weekend. Thought you might like to check it out.
NEW BOOKS
It's been almost a year since we announced our last book, "Devant's
Delightful Delusions." To say we've been busy since then, is an
understatement. Here are three new titles that we honestly believe
we could sell by merely listing the authors and titles. A book of
new illusions by Jim Steinmeyer; "Expert at the Card Table" annotated
by Darwin Ortiz, and 150 backstage photographs from Howard Thurston's
show.
"The Annotated Erdnase" is perhaps the largest and most complicated
project we have ever tackled. Whether you're a beginner sitting down
to learn your first card move, a seasoned gambler or a magic historian,
this book has got it all. Hardbound with a dustjacket. $38.50 plus
$3.00 postage and handling.
In the avalanche of new magic books that come on to the market,
precious few are aimed at the stage magician. "Device & Illusion,"
a book of stage magic and illusions written by Jim Steinmeyer, is
cause for celebration. Top quality typography, sewn binding, gold
stamping, and hardbound with a linen spine. 9 x 9, 134 pages with
37 illustrative plates. $35.00 plus $3.00 postage & handling.
"Howard Thurston's Illusion Show Work Book" is something very special.
We have always taken pride in the quality of our books but even
Magical Publications has never produced a book to rival this one.
We wanted the physical book to complement the extraordinary contents
and the result is nothing less than sumptuous. Limited to 500 copies.
228 pages, 8 x 10", frontispiece is a full-color Thurston poster. Each
book will be individually boxed in a matching slipcase. We have
prepared a beautiful prospectus that describes the Thurston Work Book
in detail, we will be happy to send you one for $1.00. If you purchase
the book directly from Magical Publications, we will include a
prospectus free. Thurston's Illusion Show Work Book is $100.00 plus
$3.00 postage & handling.
The books by Steinmeyer and Ortiz will be shipped in early June. The
Thurston book will be shipped the late part of June. That's a promise.
MAGICAL PUBLICATIONS
572 Prospect Blvd.
Pasadena, CA 91103
The mailing actually goes into much more detail on the books, the above
is an excerpt.
If any of you do indeed decide to order one of these books, please
say you "heard" about them on MAGIC!
Thanks for your indulgence!!
Msg #2021 Dated 22:15:15 05-08-91 2018 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PATRICE MOORE (X)
Re: FROM MAGICAL PUBLICATIONS
Thanks for the info, Patrice!
Msg #2022 Dated 22:12:57 05-08-91 -> 2040
From: JIM SISTI
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: HARRY LORAYNE
If the quotation marks really bother you that much, I think you need to
get out of the house more often! Funny...I didn't notice that many
quotation marks in the issue that Harry published one of my original
pieces... Too busy looking at the "big picture," I guess!
Msg #2026 Dated 22:16:38 05-08-91 -> 2066
From: JIM SISTI
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: HARRY LORAYNE
It's interesting that you describe Lorayne as a "New York" pitchman.
It should be pointed out that you never hear the expression "California
pitchman"...too "mellow," I would guess. Nobody to pitch to, as
everyone needs their "space." On the other hand, what would they
pitch? Alfalfa sprouts? Sushi bars??? No...I forgot..MAPS OF THE
STARS HOMES! Yeah...I guess things do move a little fast for those of
us in the big city...
Msg #2028 Dated 23:07:01 05-08-91
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC! LUNCHEON!
>>> TABBY CRABB TO BE IN LOS ANGELES!!! <<<
>>> SPECIAL MAGIC! LUNCHEON PLANNED!!! <<<
YES! THE TABMAN, MAGIC!'s 1991 Golden Diskette co-honoree, is
going to be visiting Los Angeles on MAY 17TH, 1991. Let's give
him a real MAGIC! welcome with lunch at the Magic Castle, starting
at 11:30 a.m.
>>> ADDED ATTRACTION! <<<
RANDY LUND, author of MAGIC2DB, will be flying in from MICHIGAN
to attend this special MAGIC! luncheon!
FINAL REMINDER! THERE ARE VERY FEW SEATS LEFT FOR THIS SPECIAL
MAGIC! LUNCHEON. IF YOU PLAN TO ATTEND, LEAVE ME A MESSAGE ASAP!
(YOU DO *NOT* NEED TO BE A MEMBER OF THE MAGIC CASTLE TO ATTEND)
Msg #2029 Dated 23:12:24 05-08-91 2000 <-
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FAX TRAX
Yes -- thanks.
Msg #2030 Dated 23:12:59 05-08-91 2004 <--> 2038
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ELMSLEY COUNT
Indeed, there are many. I've published a few. There are also quite a
few packet routines using a combination of counts and spreads, which is
generally a bad idea -- it can be justified, but not without careful
thought.
Msg #2035 Dated 23:56:40 05-08-91 1984 <--> 2041
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
The way to work with reviews is to read them -- and then read the book
or item concerned -- and see how your own judgement tallies with that
of the reviewer. Once you have that gauge, the review can provide
useful information. You don't have to agree with the reviewer, either;
back in NYC I used to read a particular magazine for their movie
reviews, knowing that if they hated a film I would probably love it.
This system hardly ever failed...
Msg #2037 Dated 0:44:05 05-09-91 -> 2053
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PENN THING
I've tried to suss out the thread a few times, but still don't get the
whole picture. What exactly were you going to do to Penn except pour
water on him? In what context? Were you representative of magicians
at large? Did Penn & Teller know what was coming, or were they set-up?
Msg #2038 Dated 0:49:36 05-09-91 2003 <--> 2048
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ELMSLEY COUNT
Have you found it anywhere near as easy to do an Elmsley with five
cards as four? I can do it, but it doesn't look anywhere near as
convincing to me. That push-off contains three cards masquerading as
one instead of two, and I can never get the alignment completely
perfect...
Any thoughts?
Msg #2039 Dated 0:51:05 05-09-91 2005 <--> 2057
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: QUOTATION MARKS
Actually, I tried this. Then I found that instead of my issue being
littered by annoying quote marks, it was littered with annoying little
white specks. I don't expect everyone to equate Lorayne's punctuation
habits with the societal threat I see it as. But my perception remains
very special to me.
"Evan"
Msg #2040 Dated 0:53:16 05-09-91 2022 <--> 2059
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: HARRY LORAYNE
How can you look at the "big picture" when it's littered with all those
little annoying marks placed seemingly randomly around words?
The quote marks are an insult to a comfortable read. They are tiny,
lurking paw prints hovering over innocent nouns, adjectives and verbs.
They are subversive in every sense.
The issue Harry published one of your "original pieces" in may have
been special. Perhaps his typewriter was broken that day. But I think
you'll find, after careful examination, that it too is littered with
these horrid little marks.
And I find your suggesstion I get out of the house more often a bit
disingenuous. I happen to know that the streets outside my house are
LITTERED with people who use quotation marks and OTHER punctuation in
a grossly irresponsible manner. To subject myself to this
unneccesarily would be painful.
Get out your issue of Apocalypse. Get out a highlighter. Count the
insidious little marks. Then tell me I'm crazy.
Or should I say, "crazy."
" "
Msg #2041 Dated 1:20:24 05-09-91 1949 <--> 2043
From: JERRY BURTON
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
I know you didn't say criticism HAD to be negative -
your original comment was concerning a 'negative opinion'
I was merely trying to point out that a critical review
can have negative comments and still be constuctive.
.
I'm sure your Magic Lib was meant to be tonque-in-cheek
humor, unfortunately it was too close to the truth.
.
I don't know how many times I have read a review in the
magic press of a show I had attended and could not believe
they were writing about the same show I saw.
Msg #2042 Dated 1:21:19 05-09-91 1946 <--> 2060
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RDMAGIC
Ideally we need a function that can accept
replies in a continuous fashion. Each reply would
have as the first line something like
.
EC;dddd (meaning Enter Continuous)
.
where dddd is the msg number to be replied to. The
first line would be automatically generated by
RDMAGIC when you select reply while reading through
a text file.
.
Then the message, ending with perhaps the word
SAVE on a single line.
.
RDMAGIC would create a single file with multiple replies,
so a single ASCII upload could dump all the replies
without having the user do anything. After
the upload the user could then go into interactive
mode or just log off.
.
The objective is to be able the enter replies within
the View Text function while you are reading messages
(within a pop-up window to enter the reply) while you
can still see the message you are replying to.
.
Hope you people can implement such a function.
.
Thanks
.
PS, K-Mar the discount magician is on Letterman tonight.
I think he books K-Mar so often to get back at P&T for
the bugs.
Msg #2043 Dated 1:35:49 05-09-91 2041 <--> 2054
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
I agree, absolutely.
And the Magic Lib was completely, absolutely serious. Did I mention I
was thinking of copywriting it and licensing it to reviewers across the
country?
Msg #2044 Dated 2:23:14 05-09-91 -> 2423
From: DOUGLAS LARSON
To: ALL
Re: KAMAR
Greetings from La La Land,
Just caught Kamar the Discount Magician on Letterman. Anyone
else catch the bit? He came out with a dove production from a
silk, the dove then proceeded to do his business on the floor..
....turns out that it's a real egg. Next came a prediction
using a dart and four cards. Audience chooses which of four
card goes to what position on a stand. Dave throws the dart at
the target and hits a number. Card at selected number is a
match to the card in the prediction envelope put out at
beginning of trick. Next he gives Dave a silk and says "do as I do"
including "poke it with your thumb
like this." Guess how he
vanished this one...(clue no pull was used). Dave complains so
he takes away his silk, rolls it in the palms and steals it
away while he gets some "magic dust". Finally he picks up the
dove that appeared in the beginning and with a toss into the
air it turns into a black silk with a white dove on it (ala
coat tail)
I don't like the blatant use of the Thumb tip like he did but
the rest of the show was pretty entertaining. The audience
really seemed to like it. Dave also was in a more cooperative
mood than the last time I saw Kamar on the Letterman show.
Msg #2045 Dated 2:27:22 05-09-91 -> 2049
From: DOUGLAS LARSON
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC D.J.
From the LA Times - May 8, 1991 - Calendar section F
Article titled: Power Afternoons
KIIS (am/fm) Top Rated afternoon deejay Matthew Shearer
(aka Magic Matt Allen) has a write up in the Times and says
some good things about magic. He was quoted as saying "I guess
I was bitten by the performance bug" ... "I loved it on stage.
It was such a feeling - not that I fooled them [with magic
tricks], but the gratification I felt when they really enjoyed
what I did."
The article says he appears at local clubs, like the Castle and
does magic at most of his public appearances, which average
about 15 per month. He prefers to be called a "magical
entertainer" instead of a magician.
I found his thoughts to be good words to take to heart. Does
anyone know more about him? Possibly he has a computer and
should be asked to join us here.
Msg #2048 Dated 3:43:53 05-09-91 2038 <--> 2082
From: MAX MAVEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ELMSLEY COUNT
Actually, the three-card block is masquerading as two cards: supposedly
the one you just took off on top of the first one (that has now been
stolen back).
Perfect alignment is usually not necessary, but if you're having
problems with keeping the block in line you may find it beneficial to
revise your approach to the push-off action. Instead of pushing the
block over with your thumb, try holding the block in place with the
thumb and pulling the bottom card back with your fingers.
Msg #2049 Dated 3:48:01 05-09-91 2045 <-
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DOUGLAS LARSON (X)
Re: MAGIC D.J.
It's my understanding that he's performed at the Magic Castle precisely
once -- two weeks ago he did a guest set in the Palace, in between Stan
Allen and the Pendragons. Reportedly, he was unfamiliar with the other
performers on the bill, and was rather miffed to learn that he was not
going to be closing...
The set, so I hear, was not terribly good.
Msg #2050 Dated 5:51:27 05-09-91 -> 2062
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: THANKS - LUNCH
Received my button and certificate. Thanks ever so much. Also I'd
like to make a reservation for the magic luncheon. Unfortunately it is
not for me. But a good friend of mine will be out in LA that week and
would like to attend. He has been threatening to log-on for some time
now. I figure if he meets you guys then he'll have to get on. I've
already told Tabby about him. His name is Allan Rentcome. He's from
England and is an excellent close-up guy. He loves performing in pubs
and does some nice bar-type magic. He'll be there for the whole week
and plans on going to the Castle several times. Thanks again.
Charlie
Msg #2051 Dated 5:52:07 05-09-91
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: PATRICE MOORE (X)
Re: COLLECTOR'S WEEKEND
Patrice, glad you liked my review of the Magic Collector's Weekend. It
was
one of the best things I've ever attended. I'm definitely going back
next
year. Going to FISM - lucky dog! I keep trying to figure out ways to
go,
but probably won't be able to make. Who knows though. Oh, I don't
know
if you remember it, but we've met before. At the Desert Seminar last
year (1990), we ended up seated next to one another at the S & R show
at
the Mirage. Talk to you later.
Charlie
Msg #2052 Dated 5:52:45 05-09-91 -> 2063
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: STEVE DARCI
David, liked your comments regarding Vernon's Variant. It is a great
effect if done with the proper presentation. I've been using a
variation
by Roger Klause. Also, you mentioned Steve Darci's video. I'm not
aware
of this video although I'm a big fan. Can you tell me more about the
video?
Did you know he's coming out with a book soon? Should be great.
Thanks.
Charlie
Msg #2053 Dated 6:36:06 05-09-91 2037 <--> 2083
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: PENN THING
Evan,
Not much to figure out. Penn was looking for someone to
debate with on subject:magic. They picked me sight unseen, but
resume faxxed. R. Teller was to have his "head" in a bucket of
water (full screen) while Penn and I "discussed magic" - small
inserts screen left and right.
Perhaps, I wasn't "what they expected" from my profile -
age 45, magic club member, close-up table and prop builder,
part-time writer. Penn was no more "set-up" than I was. Perhaps
they were expecting a "greasy rabbit puller"; however the show's
producer warned me that Penn would "go for the throat" and
suggested that I spend some time in preparation.
I "neglected" to mention my degree, show business
background or what was really "up my sleeve."
Maybe their goal was to have me as a represenative of
"rabbit pulers" everywhere, though I hardly fit that profile. One
criterion necessary was to have someone who "disagreed" with
Penn's distain for magicians.
My agenda was to have fun and not get pulled into their
trap. Since I have beyond shoulder length hair, I decided to go
for the "Penn look" and see if I could "trip him out." All in
fun, of course.
I did much research and felt prepared for the "gig." My
opening comment was to have been, "Does Teller still have the
Howdy Doody Magic Set his mom gave him when he was five?" I also
found out some stuff about Penn from his street juggling days in
Philly in the mid seventies. My goal was to avoid his barbs and
to get him on the defensive instead.
I'll get over it.
tabman
Msg #2054 Dated 7:20:16 05-09-91 1962 <--> 2055
From: STAN LAKE
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
That fill-in-the-blanks show critique sounds VERY familiar. Do you
write for any major publications?
Msg #2055 Dated 7:23:59 05-09-91 1981 <--> 2056
From: STAN LAKE
To: DOUGLAS LARSON (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
I agree completely with you Doug. That's a good idea to have a number
rating followed by blank spaces for additional comments. Many people
would not want to take the time to put their thoughts to paper as there
are so many more interesting things to do at these seminars and
lectures. I will and I'm sure several others of us would too.
Cyril was marvelously composed. I believe he is or was a Castle junior
and that training and maturity must have helped considerably. I hope
to see a lot more from him in future shows.
Msg #2056 Dated 7:37:39 05-09-91 2035 <--> 2067
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
Interesting! I'd been thinking of some kind of "group tally." But you
make a powerful argument for individual signed reviews.
Msg #2057 Dated 7:40:57 05-09-91 2039 <--> 2084
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: QUOTATION MARKS
You could get a scanner. Run it thru the scanner, use a word processor
to delete the quote marks and then type it back out. As an added
advantage, you could then select to have the output appear as typeset,
or as ordinary typewriter type. By using the later, you could get the
feeling that Lorayne was writting to you personally.
You could even defer reading the chapters, put each one in an envelope
and mail it to yourself. Of course, you'd probably have to leave the
house to put each envelope in the mailbox.
Msg #2058 Dated 7:46:40 05-09-91 1994 <--> 2394
From: STAN LAKE
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PENN AND TABMAN CANCELLED
Unless there is some chance of a "rematch", just what did you all have
in mind to say to Penn? Don't let all of that hard work go to waste!
Msg #2059 Dated 7:50:12 05-09-91 2040 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: HARRY LORAYNE
Have you tried reading the punctuation aloud, al la Victor Borge? Done
properly, you might even be able to turn this into an entertaining
"lecture."
Slightly off topic - do you recall some of the great punctuation ideas
that have failed, partly because of the reluctance of keyboard
manufacturers to add extra keys? The Interbang, which may have been
created by Steve Allen, is a good example. A single-character
combination of an exclaimation point [!] and a question mark [?], it
was intended as the proper terminator for rhetorical exclamatory
questions such as, "What the Hell are you doing!?"
Msg #2060 Dated 7:59:22 05-09-91 2042 <--> 2167
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RDMAGIC
I'm passing the EC/SAVE suggestion on to programming, although I'm not
certain why it is very much different from having RDMAGIC send a
construction such as:
ER;nnnmessageSER;nnn...
The later would offer the ability to allow the user to choose Reply or
Append and RDMAGIC would be able to use both ER (Enter Reply) and EA
(Enter Append) in the same upload burst.
Msg #2062 Dated 8:03:48 05-09-91 2050 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: THANKS - LUNCH
I've placed Allan Rentcome on the MAGIC! Luncheon list for May 17th.
But are you sure it is wise to have him meet some of this crowd before
he gets to know them?
Msg #2063 Dated 8:11:08 05-09-91 2052 <--> 2068
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: STEVE DARCI
I can't remember the name exactly, something like Magic Secrets. It
used to be sold at the Magic Castle lobby for around 24.95. The tape
was made at the Castle and opens with a news clip of Steve doing the
Water Cell escape to commemorate Houdini's birthday (death?) or
something. He does sponge bunnies, coin thru table, broken and restored
rubber band, etc.
Msg #2065 Dated 8:26:33 05-09-91 -> 2088
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: CONUNDRUM
There was a little conundrum on television that I thought every-
one might enjoy. It was presented as the top question in some
sort of National Math Bee, but who knows? Seems to me that it
could have some magical application.
Assume that you have 63 one dollar bills and six envelopes. Is
there a way to divide the money into the envelopes such that any
requested amount from one dollar to 63 dollars can be produced by
selecting the proper envelopes? If so, what needs to be placed in
each envelope?
Note: I'm told that applications of this principle have been made to
other types of effects.
Msg #2066 Dated 8:50:27 05-09-91 2026 <--> 2396
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: HARRY LORAYNE
I use the term "New York" Pitchman (apologies for the quotation marks
to Evan), simply because Harry lives in New York City and has a rather
strong Manhattan accent and definately speaks in a Manhattan pace.
Msg #2067 Dated 8:55:20 05-09-91 2056 <--> 2114
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
I don't know about you guys, but I really think this "Magic Review"
thread is sensational!!! Crisp, to the point while always
entertaining! Never has such a spectrum of viewpoints been so
cohesively presented in a single thread!!! I'm sure glad I didn't miss
it...it'll be one to tell the grandchildren about some day!
I CAN'T WAIT 'TIL NEXT YEAR!!!
Msg #2068 Dated 9:03:17 05-09-91 2063 <--> 2074
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: STEVE DARCI
Is there any way to correct the spelling of Steve's name to DACRI in
the header?
Msg #2070 Dated 9:37:56 05-09-91 -> 2072
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MAGIC! AT IBM
Bill -
Just saw the Convention ad in the May issue of Linking Ring. WOW!
Guess I'd better call the phone company and order 4 more dedicated
lines for MAGIC!
Msg #2072 Dated 10:49:49 05-09-91 2070 <--> 2073
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC! AT IBM
Got fax. Help no problem. Will discuss over mint julips on veranda.
Msg #2073 Dated 11:16:12 05-09-91 2072 <--> 2413
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAGIC! AT IBM
Everything is ready. Fresh mint grows right at the side of the
veranda.
Msg #2074 Dated 12:06:11 05-09-91 2068 <--> 2079
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: STEVE DACRI
I don't know. Maybe our SYSOP may want to answer this one.
Msg #2075 Dated 12:07:11 05-09-91 -> 2080
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC TRADING CARDS
A few weeks ago, someone mentioned Magic Trading Cards. I have a
friend, Scott Hosey (a future Magic! member) who owns several
businesses dealing with sports memorabilia and baseball cards. He
is willing (if the interest is there) to work on a Magic card
set.
He is proposing a 66 card set containing, for example, 10 Legends
Cards (past magic greats), 10 magic poster cards, and the rest
general magic and magician cards. The sets can change each year
with a new Legends Series, contest winners, etc.... In every 2nd
or 3rd set, include a special limited release card (Hologram
maybe) to spur sales. Prices should be in line with typical
baseball sets depending, of course, on quantity. These can be
taken to conventions, advertised in Genii, Magic!, whatever.
I have access to some pretty good magic libraries to get him
started, but he needs some ideas on what and who to put on the
cards, and statistics for the back. He also needs some legal help
on permission to release photos, and how to get photos in the
first place. Maybe Mr. Biro, and others, can provide contest
winner photos at the conventions they attend with proper
releases.
Scott is more than willing to help out any way he can. We just
need to get the ball rolling.
How about it guys?
Msg #2076 Dated 13:08:58 05-09-91 -> 2081
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: MAGIC LUNCH
As a "souvenir" of the "special" MAGIC lunch "Friday May 17". I will
give to all at the "lunch", a "Rabbit in the Hat" lapel pin.
Msg #2079 Dated 14:18:10 05-09-91 2074 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: STEVE DACRI
The author of a message and the sysop can change the topic or addressee
of a message. Here's an easy way to do it.
o Leave the reply message.
o Read the message you just left
o Select E for Edit from the menu and make the necessary
change. You may by-pass items you do not wish to change by
pressing the enter key.
This technique (Read and select Edit) can also be used when the author
wishes to change the status of a message from public to private or from
private to public.
Msg #2080 Dated 14:22:13 05-09-91 2075 <--> 2085
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: MAGIC TRADING CARDS
WOW! What a TERRIFIC idea! I don't know what sales would be like
(maybe magi like Sigfried & Roy, Copperfield, Melinda, Maven, etc.
could have 'em as show souvenirs?), but the concept is terrific and
certainly magicians and magic collectors would love it. Maybe some
percentage of the sales could be donated to MAGIC!?
It would have to be up to Biro and the others to help with the
planning.
Msg #2081 Dated 14:26:39 05-09-91 2076 <--> 2086
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: MAGIC LUNCH
FANTASTIC, Marvin! They are really neat pins. If I come to the lunch,
can I have a second one?
Msg #2082 Dated 14:29:32 05-09-91 2048 <--> 2112
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ELMSLEY COUNT
Thanks, the finger-pull as opposed to the thumb push works better.
Still get what I consider to be a too-sloppy left-edge alignment. I'll
practice more!
Msg #2083 Dated 14:39:59 05-09-91 2053 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PENN THING
Thanks, now I understand. And now that I understand, I'm even more
disappointed for you. Sorry!
Msg #2084 Dated 14:41:34 05-09-91 2057 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: QUOTATION MARKS
Leaving the house is not a possibility. Will get back to you re
scanner.
Msg #2085 Dated 15:18:27 05-09-91 2080 <--> 2095
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC TRADING CARDS
By all means, Scott agreed that a Magic! donation is perfectly
acceptable. All we need is enough response to make the effort
(financially) worthwhile as someone (Scott) will have to put up some
funds to have them printed.
A word of introduction, Scott is a communations tech who works with me
and has these businesses on the side. David Copperfield and myself
sponsored him into IBM this year and he is an eager and willing student
of things magical and electronic. There is a chance that I may leave
the country for parts unknown for as much as three months very soon,
and I will be relying on him to forward ZIPPED messages to me as they
become available.
Msg #2086 Dated 15:14:41 05-09-91 2081 <--> 2087
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC LUNCH
Do I get a second MAGIC button?
No need to answer, I don't need another yellow button, and of course,
you may have a second Rabbit in the Hat.
However, don't you already have two?
This would make three. I suppose your 2 1/2 got one of them.
e
c
Forget line 6 & 7. Don't know how to get back up there and get rid of
those 2 mistakes.
Msg #2087 Dated 15:37:50 05-09-91 2081 <--> 2090
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC LUNCH
Gee David, I guess I wasn't funny in regards to my #2076 to you.
I had expected some lengthly comment about the quotation marks, but I
guess one can't win them all.
I understand that you phone system was down the other day, all OK now?
Msg #2088 Dated 15:51:24 05-09-91 2065 <--> 2101
From: STAN LAKE
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: CONUNDRUM
Place one dollar in the first envelope, two in the second, four in the
third, eight in the fourth, 16 in the fifth and 32 in the sixth.
Any combination from one to 63 can be made with these amounts.
Msg #2090 Dated 16:25:31 05-09-91 2076 <--> 2091
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: MAGIC LUNCH
Marvin:
Careful. With your "use" of quotation marks, you are playing with
fire. Trust me.
"Evan"
Msg #2091 Dated 16:39:19 05-09-91 2090 <--> 2092
From: MARVIN STERN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: MAGIC LUNCH
Thanks for the advice. I'm sure you realize I was funnin' with you.
Will you be at the special Fri lunch in a couple weeks?
Msg #2092 Dated 17:01:41 05-09-91 2091 <--> 2098
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: MAGIC LUNCH
I'll be there! Looking forward to meeting you. Needless to say, bring
no quotation marks.
Msg #2093 Dated 17:02:34 05-09-91 -> 2094
From: EVAN KATZ
To: ALL
Re: QUOTATION CONSPIRACY
Number of quotation marks used to
denote "special" words in NEWSWEEK
article educating public on the
plight of Kurdish refugees................. 0
Number of quotation marks used to
denote "special" wrods in entire
Senior Life Saving manual, published
by American Red Cross, educating
public on how to save human lives........... 0
Number of quotation marks used to
denote "special" words in May 1991
APOCALYPSE, publushed by Harry Lorayne,
educating people on how to do magic
tricks.......................................82.
Msg #2094 Dated 17:05:59 05-09-91 2093 <--> 2102
From: EVAN KATZ
To: ALL
Re: QUOTATION CONSPIRACY
That's right, eighty-two. Count 'em. I did.
Msg #2095 Dated 17:05:53 05-09-91 2085 <--> 2115
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: MAGIC TRADING CARDS
Can you give us an idea of what the sales volume has to be to make it
pay off? Also, how long it takes to produce (IBM is next month!).
Msg #2096 Dated 17:06:17 05-09-91 -> 2107
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Jim:
Your statement that you didn't notice excessive use of quotation
marks in your original piece published in APOCALYPSE gnawed at me. I
went into the closet, dug out the issue (Oct. 1990) and counted.
Jim, Harry used SIXTEEN spurious quotation marks in writing up your
original creation.
Next time do your researh before you disagree with an expert.
Msg #2098 Dated 17:08:49 05-09-91 2086 <--> 2099
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: MAGIC LUNCH
You seem convinced that I've got two of your rabbits. I'm pretty
certain I have only one. I don't think I would have misplaced such a
thing! I think that you were about to give me one that day I was in
your office and ended up having an intimate affair with your fax
machine.
Rumor has it that in addition to the really nice Custom Marvin Stern
Rabbit In Hat cloisonne pins, there may be an additional "party favor"
for those who attend.
P.S. 2-1/2 year old would be very proud to wear the pin, but he also
knows the "real stuff." He points to my other pin and says, "An owl,
like the one at the Magic Castle."
Msg #2099 Dated 17:18:44 05-09-91 2087 <--> 2100
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: MAGIC LUNCH
I'm not the "expert" on quotation marks, you have to ask Evan Katz
about that. My bugaboo is excess comae, er, commae.
Our voice phone system was down for a few hours a couple of days ago.
Someone filled the allocated voice-mail disk-pack space with garbage.
Msg #2100 Dated 17:23:49 05-09-91 2092 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: MAGIC LUNCH
Yeah! Just bring your stock quotations!
Msg #2101 Dated 17:24:14 05-09-91 2088 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: CONUNDRUM
VERY GOOD, Stan! It's called BINARY! Your was the first message with
a solution. Sorry there was no prize.
How about an effect based on it? I'm told that there have been some.
(Hint: it is not necessary to stay with money/envelope tricks).
Msg #2102 Dated 17:26:14 05-09-91 2093 <--> 2105
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: QUOTATION CONSPIRACY
Maybe he got 'em wholesale?
Actually, as I mentioned, I think Evan is on to something here. Maybe
not just the use of quotation marks, but the DESIGN of magic
instruction. There is more to writing clear, concise instruction than
just knowing how to do the magic. Guess we'd better get Richard
Kaufman or Steven Minch on here.
Msg #2105 Dated 18:08:49 05-09-91 2102 <--> 2109
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: QUOTATION CONSPIRACY
Actually, I think a comparison of Kaufman, Minch and Mike Maxwell's
styles would be very interesting. Between the three of them it seems
like they write more than half the major magic books published lately,
aside from those written by the creators themselves.
Off the top of my head, I'd say Kaufman and Maxwell share a love of
brevity that can occasionally be frustrating when one wants the finer
nuances of a trick. On the other hand, perhaps the arises from the
fact that their books of late are frequently huge retrospectives, large
tomes that try to pack too much material into too few pages.
I'm less sure of what to say of Minch's style. It's clear, though
perhaps a trifle dry.
An interesting comparison of writing styles can be made between
Kaufman's Derek Dingle book, and Harry Lorayne's "Dingle's Deceptions,"
published many years ago and one of my favorite childhood magic books.
The two books deal with many of the same effects, and the way the two
authors write them up is revealing. Lorayne (and this is before his
use of the to-remain-unmentioned punctuation mark went over the top),
spent much more time on nuances. The tricks were stripped down and
simplified, the sleights were discussed, not fawned over. When Kaufman
published his complete works of Dingle, low and behold the same tricks
were written up in seemingly shorter descriptions, now with more
sleights!
Harry Lorayne has since become almost a machine, publishing a monthly
magazine as well as his books, and I think his style has gotten
sloppier. Kaufman has gone on to become, in my opinion, the premier
publisher of quality magic, though I still think he worships sleights
too much.
Any thoughts?
Msg #2107 Dated 19:13:49 05-09-91 2096 <--> 2108
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Now here's a good example:
In order to be correct, you should have written it as "expert."
(I feel like I've just said, "Niagara Falls!")
Sllllooooowwwwwwlllly I Tuurrrrnnned!!!
Msg #2108 Dated 20:00:15 05-09-91 2096 <--> 2124
From: JIM SISTI
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Apparently you have a hard time recognizing tongue-in-cheek sarcasm.
I implied that I was too busy creating stuff worthy of print to count
punctuation marks. Honestly, I hope you're kidding about all this. If
you're not, I think you really need to find a girlfriend.
Msg #2109 Dated 20:36:27 05-09-91 2105 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: QUOTATION CONSPIRACY
The amount of material generated or edited by Kaufman, Minch, and
Maxwell always amazes me. I assume that they each have a formula for
quickly taking material and converting it into a book.
That is no easy task! The standards and guidlines that I use in
producing instructional materials and documentation took 6 years to
create! If you saw my documentation on documentation, you'd probably
be underwhelmed - you'd look at the whole thing and say, "That's it?
Six years and that's it?" Truth is, it didn't take six years to make
it as big as it is, it took all that effort to make it as small as it
is!
Msg #2111 Dated 21:03:21 05-09-91 -> 2117
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ALSO TO FROG AND COUNT ZA
I have downloaded the message base for the last day and will respond to
all of youse in a couple of days...I am off to Dayton and a drive up to
Bluffton, Ohio for a meeting of the I.B.M. Management Team this weekend
(talk about FUNCITY in magicland!!!)...will hopely be back in the swing
of it by Monday. I won't provide daily accounts of activities for the
board...I don't think you could stay the excitement!
Msg #2112 Dated 21:15:45 05-09-91 2038 <--> 2113
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ELMSLEY COUNT
Stand way back from the audience, make sure they are looking at a blond
and also work in the shade... seriously, you can tilt the cards
downward so they do not see the edges. Same goes with double lifts.
Msg #2113 Dated 21:17:02 05-09-91 2048 <--> 2127
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ELMSLEY COUNT
I was going to say that...
Msg #2114 Dated 21:17:58 05-09-91 2056 <--> 2118
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
You also need to review auadu
audiences once in awhile (line noise comin on(
Msg #2115 Dated 21:23:06 05-09-91 2075 <--> 2143
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: MAGIC TRADING CARDS
Knock of the MR.
Msg #2117 Dated 21:45:19 05-09-91 2111 <--> 2399
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ALSO TO FROG AND COUNT ZA
Welcome back, Bill. Hope you had a fine time in Bluffton.
Msg #2118 Dated 21:46:28 05-09-91 2114 <--> 2400
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
I'd rather review that blonde you introduced into the Elmsley count!
Msg #2124 Dated 0:20:01 05-10-91 2107 <--> 2125
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
I disagree. Had I been WRONG or MISLEADING about the number of
quotation marks in Jim's write-up, I would have been an "expert."
Since my quotation count was done with razor-like precision, I am a
genuine, non-quote expert.
"Evan"
Msg #2125 Dated 0:21:28 05-10-91 2124 <--> 2128
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Are you counting left and right quotes as one pair? Or are you
counting each use of the mark individually?
Msg #2127 Dated 0:22:54 05-10-91 2112 <--> 2178
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ELMSLEY COUNT
As far as the Elmsley goes, it's the _left_ edge that gives me trouble,
and tilting the cards down wouldn't help. Tilting them to the left
might, right?
Msg #2128 Dated 0:23:54 05-10-91 2125 <--> 2129
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Each mark is counted individually. The thinking is that each mark is
it's own, specific crime, and should be counted as such. This also
gives birth to an interesting way to tell if someone is counterfeiting
a quotation count from a Harry Lorayne publication. If the number is
ODD, they're lying! Or didn't count carefully.
Msg #2129 Dated 0:25:20 05-10-91 2128 <--> 2130
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Then shouldn't each single quote be counted individually? Seems to me
you are still counting the left pair as one, etc.
Msg #2130 Dated 0:28:27 05-10-91 2108 <--> 2131
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
No, Jim, I think it is not I who have trouble recognizing sarcasm. Not
to imply I'm being sarcastic about this quotation mark thing. That's
dead serious. And don't forget it. BUT... I was poking a little
gentle fun at your self-acknowledgment. But only gentle.
As to the girlfriend question, how do you know I'm not gay?
Msg #2131 Dated 0:31:12 05-10-91 2130 <--> 2134
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
And, if you've been paying attention, I announced my engagement here,
on-line, April 19!
"Evan"
Msg #2132 Dated 0:33:20 05-10-91 -> 2509
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: HI FROM TOMMY WONDER
Messages to/from US#735
Dt: 09-May-91 03:20
By: Tommy Wonder
To: Magic-Us
Re: Ammar
<- #729
Hello Michael!
Nice to see you on this board. I think it is a great way to have
contact. For the short time I am using it I am amazed at the speed
one gets replys etc. Our sysop(Arnaud van Rietschoten) really does
a good job. I think he logs into the US board almost daily. He is
a real fanatic! I hope you will find out how to upload files soon,
because I would certainly be interested in your ideas about
the zombie! But it can be quite complicated in the beginning to use
all the possibilities of the comm-software. I had (and still have)
my share of problems to get things going the way I want.
Will you be in Lausanne for FISM?
I understood, last time I was in the states that not too many
americans are planning to come to FISM, which would be a pity.
Hope to see you there!
Kind regards, Tommy..
Msg #2134 Dated 0:46:21 05-10-91 2129 <--> 2135
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Evan -
Don't forget to read message # 2129 - it asks an important question
regarding double quotes ["] (22H) and single-quotes ['] (27H).
Actually, there is only one double quote on the computer keyboard,
although there are two, left and right, in typesetting. There are,
however, two single quotes, the lower-left to upper-right pointing one
mentioned above, and the upper-left to lower-right pointing one [`]
(60H).
You know, actually, if, with your new script sold, you have run out of
things to do other than counting quotes, you might be interested in
some editing work that I need done starting Monday. On the project I'm
doing right now, we have practically NO quote marks and I promise to do
no packet tricks during work.
Msg #2135 Dated 1:00:19 05-10-91 2134 <--> 2137
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Editing for MAGIC! ?
E i i g f r M G C ?
Msg #2136 Dated 1:00:40 05-10-91
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: PROJECT
Nope! Software project!
Msg #2137 Dated 1:01:08 05-10-91 2129 <--> 2145
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Interesting point. But to double all my figures might frighten me too
much.
It would, for instance, mean that Loranye used over 160 unnecessary
marks in this month's issue. This would be too much for me to handle.
Msg #2143 Dated 8:33:06 05-10-91 2075 <--> 2556
From: PATRICE MOORE
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: MAGIC TRADING CARDS
David, sounds like a terrific idea! Seems like the big names would love
having thier pics around, so in theory getting releases shouldn't be
difficult - should it? Or would they want in on the profits?
When you get to the point of using magic posters, you might want to
check with Mike Caveney. He has quite an extensive collection. He also
has quite a collection of historic photos. I bet Manny, who is the
online Houdini expert, could potentially help with Houdini pics.
I love this kind of thing! Anxious to hear more about it!
Msg #2144 Dated 8:40:00 05-10-91 -> 2149
From: PATRICE MOORE
To: ALL
Re: TV MAGIC
Thought that Closer Look show with Penn & Teller and Blackstone sounded
really worth looking for. Tracked down a number in New York for the
show and they gave me May 21st as the air date. When asked if the show
had a title, they said no, it was just the show with Penn & Teller.
My question, did someone say online here that they were in on the
production and know the show was a debate between P&T and Blackstone on
magic? Too often kidding around goes right over my head!
Saw this one on tv last night. An ad for a Perry Mason show called "The
Case of the Glass Coffin". This show airs Tuesday, 8 pm, on NBC. The
plot appears to revolve around a magician.
Happy viewing!
Msg #2145 Dated 8:56:38 05-10-91 2124 <--> 2152
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
The term "expert" is generally suspect when only self-proclaimed.
Thus, the quotation marks were in lieu of the modification,
"self-styled," and therefore correct.
I'm going to have to dust off my copy of Strunk & White's THE ELEMENTS
OF STYLE...and on a MAGIC! bulletin board...who'd've thunk it?!
Msg #2149 Dated 9:39:13 05-10-91 2144 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PATRICE MOORE (X)
Re: TV MAGIC
Wow! Patrice! You are terrific! Originally, the show was to have an
appearance by Blackstone with the debate being between Penn and our own
Tabman. But the satellite link from Washington to New York
failed and Tabman's role ended up getting cut. Tab may be able to
provide more details.
Msg #2150 Dated 12:10:40 05-10-91 -> 2153
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: CASTLE LUNCH ON 17TH
Geno says he'll probably be there if there's room.
Msg #2151 Dated 12:11:18 05-10-91 -> 2154
From: TABBY CRABB
To: ALL
Re: LA TRIP
Bone Pony's gig at The Raintree in Torrence has been
cancelled due to the Cal Liquor Board suspending their license
for a violation so don't come looking for me there next week.
I'm still coming out cuz I don't want to miss the Castle
luncheon or the Mint Julips on Frog Lichtman's veranda, nor the
antics of his son Zoom Lichtman plus I got a sweet deal on plane
fare (non refundable) sooooooo....
Will still be at MAGIC! World HDQ as planned....Thursday
and Friday, etc.
Am thinking about getting off the plane at LAX around 5pm
and renting a car and making the run to Vegas for Tuesday,
Wednesday and coming back to Arleta Thursday afternoon. Am
curious if anybody wants to make the trip over from LA to Vegas
with me. I want to see Geno if he's in town too (just talked to
him and he will be).
So, anyway...don't look for me at The Raintree cuz nobody
will be there (especially me) but do look for me at Castle on
Friday. Geno sez he'll probably be coming over for it too, sooo.
Also, for you Vegas MAGIC! bbsers, I'll probably be at
the Trop unless they're full, but will let the Sysop know where
just in case anybodys lookin.
Also had dinner with Kent Cummins last evening in Olde
Town (Alexandria, VA) and he promises to be online by mid to late
summer. Kent is a super guy, but sez his first name isn't Captain
anymore.
Msg #2152 Dated 12:57:35 05-10-91 2145 <--> 2162
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
I consulted Strunk & White before I began this diabolical tirade. I
THOUGHT I remembered them saying using said vile punctuation markes
in this manner was outre. But, when I looked, I couldn't find the
reference. So I turned to my college handbook, which said it was ok
to use them in that way.
Once again, an expert does his homework. An "expert" does not.
Msg #2153 Dated 12:52:30 05-10-91 2150 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CASTLE LUNCH ON 17TH
This is going to be one heck of an incredible MAGIC! lunch!!! Tabby
Crabb, Randy Lund, Geno Munari! Geno's reservation is the one that
fills the table. So unless there is a cancellation, that's it, folks!
For those lucky enough to be in on this Special MAGIC! luncheon,
Tabby Crabb Randy Lund Geno Munari
Marvin Stern Burt Carpenter Wayne Powers
Richard Hart Evan Katz Bruce Sandercock
Jerry Burton Allan Rentcomb Mike King
Vicky David Lichtman
we will begin at 11:30 a.m. on Friday, May 17th. The reservation will
be under my name (David Lichtman) at the reception desk and with the
maitre d' in the dining room. Hopefully, we will have the Houdini
Room. Dress is more casual than it is in the evening - suits and ties/
dresses are not required.
IF, for some reason, your plans change and you are unable to make the
luncheon, please inform me as soon as you can so that an alternate from
the waiting list can be selected.
Msg #2154 Dated 13:01:48 05-10-91 2151 <--> 2179
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LA TRIP
Sorry to hear that the biz part of the trip messed up. But glad to
hear that you are still coming anyway! You are more than welcome to
spend extra days here at Techy Heaven. But if you want to go to Vegas
anyway, you might check airfares from either LAX or Burbank - sometimes
there are good deals. I don't get the local newspaper (with MAGIC!,
who needs it?) but will try and get across the street and see what I
can dig up this weekend.
Msg #2159 Dated 14:05:52 05-10-91
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: READING MESSAGES
Thanks to the articles about MAGIC! that appeared in several
publications, we have a lot of new users. Here is a tip on how to
read messages quickly and easily.
From the Main Menu:
Type R;* and press That's the letter R followed by a
the ENTER key. semi-colon (;) followed by an
asterisk (*). Then press the
ENTER key. You will immediately
see the first new message after the last message you read the
last time you were on MAGIC! After each message you will be
presented with a menu. You can use this menu to Reply to a
message. If you just want to go on to the next message,
just press the ENTER key. Messages will be presented in
SUBJECT order. That means that you will see all of the messages
that have the same subject, followed by all of the messages on
the next subject, etc.
There are several other ways to read and locate messages on MAGIC!
Since most members tend to use an interactive mode in which they
read and reply to messages we tend to stress R;* as the best way
to do this. But here are some alternatives:
From the Main Menu:
R;nnn (Where nnn represents an individual message number)
Allows you to read and reply to one message. After
reading that one message a prompt will appear that allows you to insert
another number to read. This is NOT usually recommended since you miss
all of the messages in between the ones you read and, unless you go
back and read them, you will not see them. Your message pointer, the
thing that keeps track of the last message you read, will be updated
when you log off.
R;nnn+ (Where nnn represents an individual message number)
Allows you to read and reply to all messages, in
subject order, starting from the message number you have entered
(note that there is a plus sign [+] following the message number.
This is useful when you want to go back to a certain number to begin
reading or if you haven't been on for a while and want to skip a lot
of messages that are "new" but that you haven't got the opportunity
to read. Once again, your message pointer will be updated to the
last message you read, so, if you don't keep track you will loose
the opportunity to read previous messages.
RC;* RC stands for Read Continuous. This is useful for
or RC;nnn+ "downloading" the current messages into a file for
printing or examining later. The messages will
appear in NUMERICAL order, but you will NOT be offered an opportunity
to reply. Messages will just keep scrolling into your system and you
will need to use a "capture buffer" to retain them. RC;* will start
from the first new message, RC;nnn+ will start from the message number
you have entered. While this is a way to "grab" messages quickly to
read off-line, it tends to discourage replies and often turns the user
into a reader rather than a participant. Your message pointer will be
updated.
Along with these read options, there are some ways to look for
messages. All of them are generally followed with the number of the
message you wish to start at and a plus sign [+].
Q;nnn+ Quick Scan will display the subjects of messages
in numerical order.
S;nnn+ Scan will display the "message headers," the time
and date of the message, the message number, the
name of the person it is from, the name of the
person it is to, and the subject.
Q?;nnn+ The R, Q, or S command, followed by a question mark
S?;nnn+ [?] will allow you to search for a keyword or name
R?;nnn+ in the message header. Since Q only displays the
subject, I believe it will only search for keywords
in the subject, while the others will also allow
a search for the name of the person it is from or
to.
Hope that these "advanced features" allow you to tailor your use of
MAGIC! to the way you would like it.
Msg #2162 Dated 16:37:07 05-10-91 2152 <--> 2163
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
An "expert" has to look up basic references. An expert does not.
.
Msg #2163 Dated 17:22:32 05-10-91 2162 <--> 2164
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Wayne--
"Na na na na na na!"
--Evan
Msg #2164 Dated 17:27:33 05-10-91 2163 <--> 2169
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Gentlemen, Gentlemen!
Before this degenerates further, may I remind you that someday scholars
will look back on this conversation and that it will possibly prove
embarrasing to your progeny? May I also remind you that "Ex" is Latin
for "has been," and that a "spurt" is a "drip under pressure?"
Msg #2167 Dated 17:39:18 05-10-91 2060 <--> 2172
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RDMAGIC
The main difference is that you could use ASCII upload
in one shot. I currently use PROCMM with a pace character
of 58(:). The EC I'm proposing would continue to
provide the pace characters for EACH line, including
command lines, e.g. ER;nnnn or EA;nnnn etc. This way
you could upload several replies with only ONE UPLOAD
command.
.
I like the idea of being able to specify either ER or EA
within the file. If the first line were EC, which would
cause a special function to be invoked that could then
interpret the ER;nnnn or EA;nnnn commands and know
that 2 blank lines ended a message, and then go ahead
and interpret the next line as a command, the entire
process could be done with one upload.
.
I would give the user the option of specifying whether
the message (reply) being entered is to be an E, ER or EA
type command and would automatically generate a reply
file with the appropriate header/trailer info.
.
Without a means of staying in the pace mode, and having
commands acted upon by the system, the commands look
like part of the reply being uploaded.
.
Color me Dumb - must be the onset of oldtimers disease -
I went to the Castle for our lunch meeting today and
wondered where every one was ?? I looked at my watch
and noticed it said the 10th not the 17th - at least
I wasn't late. Oh well, I was at a client in L.A.
anyway so it didn't cost too much time.
.
I mentioned the Luncheon to Johnnie Ace Wednesday, and he
is interested in attending if his schedule allows it.
He'll call me later in the week, is there still room ??
.
The new name for the program sounds fine to me -
go with it if you want. Try to get some people
using it ASAP as I would like to have some feed-back.
Have you used it yet ? If yes, what do you think ?
If no, why not ?
.
Let me know about the EC option, I'm working on the
reply section now.
.
Regards - Burton the Bizarre
Msg #2168 Dated 17:47:28 05-10-91 -> 2180
From: STEVE KUCERA
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: A LITLE TING CALLEVAUDEVI
Hey Pete do oyou have any info or knowledge of a vaudevillian by the
name of Glyndon Smith. I'd like to know more about his act. Thanx.
Msg #2169 Dated 18:37:28 05-10-91 2163 <--> 2170
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Evan:
.
.
I don't mind your Na na na na na na!
...but those dam quotation marks really irked me!
.
.
.
'Wayne.
Msg #2170 Dated 18:39:54 05-10-91 2164 <--> 2173
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Gentlemen, Gentlemen!???
In the immortal woids of Samuel "Shemp" Howard, "Who came in??!!"
Msg #2172 Dated 19:22:50 05-10-91 2167 <--> 2426
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RDMAGIC
OK, Jerry, will see what programming has to say. So far they are
impressed with the program, although they found a couple of bugs in the
early version. I forwarded the 05-07 one to 'em yesterday. And I will
forward a copy of this discussion.
If Johnny Ace Palmer would like to attend the Tabman's luncheon, I'm
sure we'll make room! If necessary, I'll go stand in the hall! Let me
know as soon as you can. Sorry you were there a little early - maybe
you can just stay at the Castle for a week.
Msg #2173 Dated 19:28:16 05-10-91 2170 <--> 2177
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
I can see it all now... Some poor slob is gonna get his doctorate by
proving that this stuff was indeed actually written by the same Wayne
Powers and Evan Katz who each held so many Oscars and Emmys.
Msg #2174 Dated 20:09:30 05-10-91 -> 2182
From: JIM SISTI
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC MENU BOOK
THE MAGIC MENU is just about to finish up Volume One. To celebrate,
we are binding the first year (six issues) and calling it THE MAGIC
MENU--YEAR ONE. This spiral-bound book will feature an interview with
Eugene Burger and original articles and magic from Doc Eason, Eric De
Camps, Charles Greene III, and MAGIC!'s own Tabby Crabb, Scott Wells
and Kevin O'Malley (and me!). The price will be $25.00 and for those
of you who order as a result of this post, I will donate 20% of each
book sold back to MAGIC!. The book should be available by mid-June
but we are taking orders now.
Msg #2175 Dated 20:30:33 05-10-91
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: COMING TO ARLETA
Plans are right now to play it by ear, but since so close to
Vegas it would benefit me to run over since I'm buying some
supplies from a co. there. I could go place an order first hand
and see what all they have. Give me generic directions I guess,
but will be in touch via voxline before I leave tuesday am.
Msg #2176 Dated 20:39:30 05-10-91 -> 2183
From: STEVE BRYANT
To: ALL
Re: CASSADAGA
Last summer, I drove over to the Spiritualist Camp at
Cassadaga, Florida, to check out what was going on in
the spirit world. Following that visit, I wrote up my
notes and forwarded them to a couple of friends,
including Scott Davis of SEANCE. Scott had planned an
article based on the letter, but worthier pieces
crowded it out at the last minute. I am therefore
releasing the original description of this decidedly
unusual place. David may try to upload a photo or two
at a later date. (Note to David: the REAL photos went
out this morning.) For those interested in the
stranger side of magic, my original text (edited only
slightly so that it makes sense here) follows:
* *
Spooky stuff enclosed.
* *
Until Stan Allen's mention of the medium-fortuneteller
rivalry in INSIDE MAGIC (June 1990), I was unaware of
the spirit camp at Cassadaga, Florida. As we have
vacationed nearby for the past three years, at New
Smyrna, just south of Daytona Beach, I thought it might
be interesting this year to drive over and check it
out. This totally freaked my daughter's friend who was
travelling with us. "Gross," she said. "He's going
off to talk to dead people."
* *
Unfortunately, Cassadaga wasn't THAT scary. Although
off the beaten path, its approach is well marked and
advertised. The visitor information center, staffed on
the morning of my arrival by a young man named Mike,
was more of a perky, upbeat psychic book store than the
deeply religious and sinister place I had hoped to
encounter. (If you want spooky, tour the Washington
Cathedral in Washington,D.C. I'd love to throw a
Halloween party there.) Numerous others were busy at
carpentry, expanding this introductory area. Business,
it seemed, was booming in Cassadaga.
* *
Upon learning that I was a magician, Mike gently
informed me that what I do is hocus pocus, and that
what the mediums at Cassadaga do is real. (Not so
real, according to Harry Allen of Daytona Beach Magic,
that they don't occasionally drop in to purchase a
spirit or mental effect.) Mike went on to confirm Stan
Allen's item. The mediums consider themselves to be
part of a church, and therefore don't want publicity.
The fortunetellers thrive on the sales of crystal balls
and related items in addition to their readings, and
therefore seek a larger tourist trade. To my
disappointment, none of the mediums were openly
conducting seances, which is what I had hoped to
attend. Despite the definition in the promotional
brochure that encompasses "levitation, raps,
materialization, automatic and independent writing or
paintings" and so on, the mediums limited their
demonstrations to readings. The apparent difference is
that the mediums conduct their readings via contact
with the other side, while the fortunetellers use
gazing crystals, tea leaves, or whatever.
* *
As to the layout of Cassadaga, most of the homes were
modest but well-groomed, with mediums' shingles out
front of most of them. I was reminded of Paul
Gallico's novel THE MAN WHO WAS MAGIC, set in a city
inhabited by magicians; with so many mediums in
residence there MUST be some interesting rivalries,
jealousy, etc. I kept having to remind myself that
people actually lived here. There was the occasional
child walking down a street, or a teenager on a
motorcycle. Everything seemed quite normal for so
abnormal a place.
* *
Two surprises appeared when I developed my photos --
the word TAROT on the license plate of an automobile,
and the vertical ghostly smear in the upper right
portion of the shot of a medium's residence. Only a
heathen skeptic would suggest that this spooky light
was the reflection off my car windshield.
-- Steve Bryant
Msg #2177 Dated 20:49:49 05-10-91 2164 <--> 2184
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
KNOCK IT "F'ING" OFF
Msg #2178 Dated 20:50:22 05-10-91 2127 <--> 2397
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ELMSLEY COUNT
Hell, from here how can "I" tell"?"
Msg #2179 Dated 20:52:26 05-10-91 2151 <--> 2190
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LA TRIP
It takes five hours to get to Vegas from L.A. -- stop in Barstow at the
In and Out Burger just before city limits. Don't go to MacDonalds.
Be in touche
Msg #2180 Dated 20:54:16 05-10-91 2168 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: STEVE KUCERA (X)
Re: A LITLE TING CALLEVAUDEVI
I knew him butnot well. He was a Signjpainter for a living, as was I in
the aearly days... and signpainters have a common rapport (Muhammad
Ali's dad was one too) Smith was a really nice guy, attended lots of
conventnions, but that is all I can tellyou....
Msg #2182 Dated 21:59:32 05-10-91 2174 <--> 2352
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: MAGIC MENU BOOK
Sounds great, Jim! And the donation to MAGIC! is appreciated.
Msg #2183 Dated 22:04:29 05-10-91 2176 <--> 2402
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: CASSADAGA
The Cassadega Steve found is different from the one I knew in the late
60's (NINETEEN sixty's, for those who... well, you know who you are).
Wish I could dig up my photo of the place taken at that time. Maybe I
can try to find it by the time Steve's contemporary ones arrive.
Anyway, then there was NO visitor's center. And, to the best of my
knowledge, there were no fortuntellers in residence. At the end of a
very quiet road, there was a sign, similar to the one in Steve's
pictures, listing the mediums in residence, but everything else was
pretty discrete.
It was a very quiet, almost earily quiet place. Had a "spooky" feel to
it. Alas, it sounds like the Cassadega McDonald's will be opening next
week. Perhaps a theme park - to complement Veddaland, which will be
only a few miles away.
Msg #2184 Dated 22:09:35 05-10-91 2177 <--> 2197
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN AND WAYNE
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Gentlemen - Pete, "Chairman of the Bored" Biro has spoken. May I
suggest we, uh, um, er, do what he, uh, "suggests?"
It will be nice to see some magic re-appear around here.
Msg #2185 Dated 23:35:22 05-10-91 1926 <--> 2223
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: GENII SUBSCRIPTION
By the way, I got the issue. I like your "Genii Humor", especially that
George Bush cartoon. I especially liked R.W.'s Cups and Balls and "The
Big Red One". Keep up the good work.
Msg #2186 Dated 23:37:13 05-10-91 1931 <--> 2189
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAC ADVICE
No such thing as being paid too much! I don't hear Sam Winston (richest
man in America) complaining.
Msg #2188 Dated 23:39:05 05-10-91
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: ALL
Re: MORE STUFF
Well, the SAM meeting went well. The theme was "Flea Market". Including
myself, there were only about 5 dealers. Last year there were twice as
many dealers! With a lack of competetion, though, I managed to sell
plenty of magic.
My friend with the special request for "Jumping Gems" actually found
what he needed at the Flea Market! What luck.
I've switched to Hydrox, as I've lost faith in the Nabisco people. Good
suggestion, Evan!
With my paycheck coming up, the first $12 goes to Max's Book "Thavana".
I saw the ad in the april issue, and fell in love with the book!
Finally got the april issue, speaking of it. Found one of my effects on
page 387! Life is good.
By the way, when I say "april issue", I mean Genii by the way. Whoops!
Msg #2189 Dated 23:45:33 05-10-91 2186 <--> 2240
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: MAC ADVICE
Yeah! And believe me, he didn't get that way by paying people too
much!
Msg #2190 Dated 23:47:13 05-10-91 2179 <--> 2195
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LA TRIP
Just checked and there are advertised fares from LAX to Las Vegas for
around $88. There may be lower ones available and you might also look
at Burbank airport 'cause sometimes there are deals out of there. P.S.
if you fly back into Burbank it is an EASY pick-up for me - LOTS easier
than LAX.
Msg #2191 Dated 23:46:58 05-10-91 1933 <--> 2193
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BLACK & TELLER
Among the other appearances of magic on TV is next week is the Perry
Mason and the case of the Glass Coffin. Peter Scolari is a magi whose
spectacular trick goes awry, aND kills his assistant. Whodunit?
Howdunit? For a juggler, Peter Scolari sure is on plenty of
magic-associated Tv shows.
Msg #2193 Dated 0:09:24 05-11-91 2191 <--> 2241
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: BLACK & TELLER
Thanks. And, yes, it is amazing how Scolari gets around. You would
have thought that his last role in a magic show, "World's Greatest
Magic from the Magic Castle" would have terminated his involvement.
Msg #2195 Dated 0:14:38 05-11-91 2190 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LA TRIP
Here's the stuff I found.....
Fares selected for: LAX-LAS Departs: TUE-14 MAY
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fares: US Dollars Fare Restriction Summary:
One-way Rnd-trp Airline/ Farecode Cancel Advance Min.
No lower fares Class Penalty Purchase Stay Other
88.00 DL/K KE3WNR 100% 3 day * *
88.00 HP/V VOE32NR 100% 3 day * *
88.00 HP/V VOE32NR 100% 3 day * *
88.00 HP/V VOE32NR 100% 3 day * *
98.00 DL/K KE3XNR 100% 3 day * *
49.00 AA/K K - - - -
51.00 HP/KN KN - - - -
59.00 DL/L L9 - - - *
* Additional Restrictions apply
=======================================================================
Msg #2197 Dated 1:50:10 05-11-91 2169 <--> 2203
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Wayne--
Sorry. I understand. They irk me too.
--Evan
Msg #2199 Dated 2:19:54 05-11-91 -> 2242
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: ALL
Re: ELSMLEY COUNT
- Messages to/from US ------------------------ LOCAL008 -
Msg : 225 of 225 Loc
From : Tommy Wonder 11 May 91 01:19:00
To : All
Subj : Elmsley Count
-------------------------------------------------------------------
To:ALL
re:Elmsley count
.
Interesting to read some thoughts on the elmsley count. I agree with
Max that indeed ideally the only real natural way to show a few cards
is by spreading them. And yes, the fingertip grip, if done with an
air of "Look, I cannot cheat with the cards this way", is also good.
But sometimes this attitude can be quite out of context!
.
I hope someone somewhere will come up with a showing procedure which
accomplishes the same as the elmsley count but which has more the
looks of an ascanio spread, which can look so natural.
.
Eddy Taytelbaum does have several handlings for counts. Some I think
only look natural with Eddy I suppose, but others are really great.
The problem is Eddy does not want to explain these moves. He keeps on
saying that I should work the problems out myself so that I might
find a better way than his! And on top of it all he does not make
notes! And he forgets his handlings quickly! One of Eddies counts
simulates the flushtration count where the cards just seem to dribble
out of your hand, very convincing. I think this was described
somewhere.
.
Or when Kaps did Gypsy curse. He just shuffled the cards. The only
thing you saw were the nines, until one moment, you suddenly saw a
king. This was placed aside. The shuffle looked very nonchalant and
so was very convincing. It seemed he was not controlling at all.
.
One way to go is to find an excuse for the slightly unnatural
handling of the elmsley count and the like, but another way to go
might be to find new ways so that we can show the cards nonchalantly,
easy going, as if we have nothing to hide. Anybody interested out
there to work out these handlings?
.
Kind regards
Tommy Wonder.
Msg #2201 Dated 7:36:17 05-11-91 999 <--> 2207
From: HARRISON CARROLL
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: THE DOCTOR
Pete: Forgive the delay in responding. Been out of town for a bit and
just getting caught up. The Doctor was in Buffalo at the time you asked
where he was. He headed for Toronto, then back to Colorado. I just got
a piece of mail from him postmarked from his hometown. So, by now I
guess you can reach him at home.
Msg #2202 Dated 7:44:02 05-11-91
From: HARRISON CARROLL
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FFFF
Heeey TC: It was great to see you again. I only wish we had more time
to chat. I really love you close-up pad, and wanted to talk more about
it with you. There certainly has never been anything like it.
Keep me posted on it. I definately would like to further discuss
having one made.
So, what did you think of Fechter's. I'll bet you were shocked when
you drove up to the place. Huh? If I'm in town in November I'll try to
catch the Webster deal. Especially If you will be there.
By the way, I kinda forgot what you told me about downloading
everything and getting off the board quickly. I wanted to download
sysop message #2159 but didmn't know
how.sysop message
#2159 but
didn't
ysope
#2151:
#2159
111:
sysop message #2. But didn't
I can't print screen because my machine locks up for some reason.
Anyway, it was certainly good to see you..
Harry
Msg #2203 Dated 8:32:09 05-11-91 2197 <--> 2206
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Evan:
.
They do? OOoohh, yeah...that's how this whole thing started!!!
.
P.S.: Evan, d'ya think a few folks around here need a sense-of-humor
transplant?
.
'Wayne.
Msg #2206 Dated 12:20:22 05-11-91 2203 <--> 2239
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
I have an extra one around here someplace, use it.
Msg #2207 Dated 12:43:36 05-11-91 2201 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: THE DOCTOR
Doc is on the road again. He left yesterday, but Mrs. Doc is at home
right now and she'll get a msg to him. They're off to Disneyland
shortly soooooo.
Msg #2209 Dated 14:38:52 05-11-91
From: ANDREW T OAKDEN
To: ALL
Re: WIZARDS WEEKEND
Hey! Anyone out there going to come to the WIZARD WEEKEND in blooming
ton, Minnesota? I have singhed up for it. And I am also thinking
about signing up for the Jr. Competition. Does anyone have an idea for
a mind boggling routine? It has to be 5 minutes long but no more than
7. Thanks alot!!!
Msg #2215 Dated 18:38:32 05-11-91 -> 2219
From: MAX MAVEN
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
The "Oddice" are packaged, and will go out to you on Monday.
Regarding your query, the effect description by Eugene Burger is quite
accurate. The routine is called "The Pocket Nightmare," and it is one
I have _not_ published or marketed. I've performed this in several
different countries over the past decade.
Of course, you have every right to speculate on the methodology
involved. I will not, however, discuss your speculations with you.
You're quite correct, there are some ethical problems involved in this
context. While it's fair game to indulge in speculation, it seems clear
to me that it's out of line to publish such solutions. This is simply
because I've not only kept the method out of print, I've also held off
publishing the effect. Of course, I have not invented the effect of a
card vanishing from the pack and appearing in the pocket, but the
specific presentational construction of my routine _is_ new, and as
such is not up for grabs.
In fact, after I performed this routine at the Madrid FISM, a German
magician published a mediocre method in "Magie" magazine. He clearly
thought he was being ethical, as he credited my performance in his
write-up, and stated that this was his hypothetical solution. However,
he was, in my opinion, wrong to publish what he did. I wrote a letter
to the editor of that magazine concerning my objections, and requested
that a statement be published making it clear that the presentation of
this effect was _not_ available.
I'll close with a perversely amusing story: a few years ago I was
approached by a guy at the Castle who said, "Remember me? We met in New
York years ago..." I vaguely recalled his face. He went on, "I saw you
do a routine at the Tannen Jubilee years ago, and at the time I asked
if it was accomplished by using stooges. You said it wasn't."
I concurred. He continued, "Well, since using stooges was not your
method, I entered the stooge method in an originality contest held by
my S.A.M. assembly in New Jersey -- and I won first prize!"
He was beaming with pride about this, and it was obvious that he had no
sense whatsoever that what he was telling me was profoundly insulting,
to say nothing of being completely unethical. Surely a ludicrous
definition of "originality," wouldn't you say?
Msg #2217 Dated 19:41:15 05-11-91 -> 2246
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TABLE HOPPING??
OK, I'll bite. If I drive, it's Barstow and the In n Out
Burger. Will even have one for you. I have a question for
somebody. Did the term "Table Hopping" originate with magicians
or gamblers? I know it's a term used by certain 21 card counters
when they "Wong It" (ref: Stanford Wong) or move or "hop" (maybe
like giant rabbits, I know thats how I do it) from table to table
looking for a positive deck.
If I'm lucky enuf to get as far as Vegas, I'll play a
hand for you. A thou on red, right?
Msg #2219 Dated 20:10:35 05-11-91 2215 <--> 2227
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
I agree with you, Max. It is an interesting topic, though, and there
are many opinions out there which would not be in agreement.
To me, it's been the dubious reputation of several magic dealers to rip
off an effect with their "improvements" or "variations." (Sorry for
the quotation marks, Evan.) There are many of what I would consider
master cardmen who berate Marlo for the very same transgressions.
True, his variations are creative, interesting and sometimes
practical...but how does the mutated move or effect become "his?" I
really must confess to being able to see both sides of this one.
Regarding your experience with the King of Originality who absconded
with your routine excepting the "improved" methodology of stooge
reliance, your mistake was in discussing your methodology AT ALL with
him...even to such a small admission as "no stooges used." People like
that are what sells Maalox!
Msg #2221 Dated 20:44:53 05-11-91
From: GARY PLANTS
To: ALL
Re: MICKEY MCDOUGALL
Does anyone know if Mickey McDougall is still alive and if so where he
is living? I do not remember reading anywhere about his death so I am
assuming that he is still alive. If you are not familiar with this
name, he was a well known gambling authority (?) many years ago. He
was Scarnes competition at one time. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Msg #2223 Dated 21:05:18 05-11-91 2185 <--> 2460
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: GENII SUBSCRIPTION
Glad you finally got the issue and appreciated
the humor. May should be arriving in about two
weeks.
Msg #2224 Dated 21:08:09 05-11-91
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: ALL
Re: HELP
Can anyone help me with some information on a DELBIN GIANT GUILLOTINE?
I've wanted to work on a comic guillotine routine and I've located a
Delbin, (about 6' tall), in oak with Delbin's custom packing case.
It's in great shape and hasn't been used too much. (Obviously it
wasn't around for the French Revolution!)
Not having much experience in larger illusion items, if anyone knows
about how much this thing is worth, it would help a lot.
Thanks!!!
Msg #2227 Dated 23:09:11 05-11-91 2219 <--> 2229
From: MAX MAVEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
The key point here is that the routine in question was one that had not
been published or marketed. It had been established as my own, via
public performance, but otherwise not disseminated.
Once an effect is published or marketed, I think it's fair game for
others to develop variations, for their own use or for publication. In
the latter case, there is of course a responsibility on the part of the
inventor of the variation to give proper credit to the original
inventor.
There is a related area of discussion, having to do with just when
a variation is different enough to warrant publication. That's often
difficult to pinpoint...
Msg #2229 Dated 23:39:15 05-11-91 2227 <--> 2233
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
If only there were some sort of official magicians' registration
system, as the Writers' Guild has for the work of its membership.
I guess one must settle for the U.S. Copyright and Patent systems along
with trust in the integrity and good intentions of fellow magi.
(Yikes!)
In all performing media, the creative artist seems to be "fair game"
for those who would rather pilfer than create.
A very good friend of mine is, as we speak, going through his legal
options after seeing someone perform with one of his "trademark" props
on INTO THE NIGHT With Rick Dees.
I've been in show business all of my adult life and, sadly, I see this
kind of thing happen all the time...in all fields, (Comedy, Music,
Magic, etc.), and at all levels of the success and money ladders.
On that note, I think I'll stick my head in the oven and say "G'Night!"
Msg #2231 Dated 0:19:07 05-12-91 -> 2303
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: GENII
Dante -
The May Genii arrived in the mail today. Looks Great! I'm kinda glad
to see that you resisted the obvious temptation - one I might have
fallen prey to - to place the Genii logo on the cover about 7" higher
and about 3" to the left. Nice, too, to see Michael Ammar, Max Maven,
and Jim Sisti's names in the Table of Contents. Haven't really had a
chance to sit down with it yet, but it looks GREAT! And it was very,
very thoughtful of you to create and run the "ad" for MAGIC! on page
482. Many thanks!
Msg #2233 Dated 0:52:53 05-12-91 2215 <--> 2234
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
I'm curious. As a launching point for a discussion -- where does one
draw the line between an original plot, or it's little sister original
presentation, and an homage? What do you think is ethically protected?
Obviously more than method, but you seem to be postulating that effect
AND presentation should be protected as well.
I think this is an interesting arena, and a complex one. I know we're
not talking legally here, but a fleshing out of some ethical
expectations we can all agree upon would be a noble effort. Care to
contribute your further thoughts?
Msg #2234 Dated 0:55:41 05-12-91 2219 <--> 2244
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Yes, why are the endless variation of collectors and sandwich effects
not violations upon the original creators?
Msg #2239 Dated 4:39:40 05-12-91 2203 <--> 2510
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ERRANT QUOTATION PERCEPTI
Any Donors?
Msg #2240 Dated 4:40:17 05-12-91 2186 <--> 2461
From: PETE BIRO
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: MAC ADVICE
No It is the SAM of Walmart, not Winston
Msg #2241 Dated 4:41:37 05-12-91 2193 <--> 2256
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BLACK & TELLER
Some of the worst actors in the world work alla time 'cause they got
god agents! Right Wayne? Eddie Albert comes to mind....
Msg #2242 Dated 4:43:07 05-12-91 2199 <--> 2257
From: PETE BIRO
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: ELSMLEY COUNT
Kaps handling of the Gyspsy Curse was the best, most baffling, with his
nonchalant Shuffle replacing the Hamman count. It is beautiful, it is
magic.
Msg #2244 Dated 4:47:23 05-12-91 2227 <--> 2245
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Reply to wrong messge, but the guy didn't buy Maalox, he stole some.
Msg #2245 Dated 4:48:29 05-12-91 2233 <--> 2264
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
In vodvil some guy came up with a scheme to *Protect* material. You
sent your original stuff to him, to be *Registered, dated, etc.* As
soon as he had a ton of stuff he put out a manuscript SELLING THE
MATERIAL. Wish I could rememember the name.
Msg #2246 Dated 4:50:32 05-12-91 2217 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TABLE HOPPING??
Table HOPPING came from the Hanlons. A great acrobatic team that
would walk into a restaurant and Hop on top of the tables, stopping at
one they liked. This practice began at the turn of the century in
Bolivia.
Msg #2252 Dated 9:47:55 05-12-91 -> 2261
From: MICHAEL AMMAR
To: ALL
Re: YOUR QUESTION
The inability to protect EFFECTS, as opposed to METHODS, is, I believe
a result of the Industrial Revolution.
During the rise of the Industrial Age, employing a new METHOD to
produce something could result in tremendous profits. People became
desperate to protect their METHODS. Often, production METHODS could be
used to create many different products. METHODS, as far as 'rights'
and 'protection' are concerned, were everything.
Magic, on the other hand, is an 'industry' based on EFFECTS,
which, as we all know, can be achieved by many different METHODS. Our
business works in exactly the opposite fashion as manufacturing. In
magic, having the right EFFECTS can result in tremendous profits.
But many dies are cast, and it takes too much energy to open
closed minds. It's a mistake to expect the government to act on the
discrepancy. If it's going to be dealt with, we will simply have to do
it ourselves, INSIDE OUR OWN INDUSTRY. That will, of course, require
a major organization with vision.
As for the particular routine Max mentioned - what a shame if
someone has printed anything even F close to his presentation! His
routining made the difference between a so-so trick and something you
could close a show with. Regardless of the method you use, take Max's
construction away from him, and you've stolen the EFFECT that butters
his bread.
I'm reminded of a GENII issue from 1989, where a guy printed The
Straw Thru Quarter. He used my construction and David Williamson's
BEAUTIFUL version of the switch. He felt 'just' in printing EVERYTHING
because of the 'original' idea of using a straw instead of a pencil.
Kinda' reminds me of this new MacDonald's KINGS routine I'm going to
invent soon...
Finally, there does seem to be a mind set that tolerates shopping
from the repertoires of performers once they reach a certain level.
I have a version of Chink a Chink that I save for special
occasions. Vernon once introduced me to his son, Ted, and I performed
several things for him at the Castle. When I did Chink a Chink for
him, Ted said (as the Professor took to reminding me everytime I saw
him afterwards) that this was the single best trick he had ever seen in
his life. He even went so far as to ask his 'Dad', "Didn't Malini do
something like that?"
In any case, I've had the 'pleasure' of seeing 'guesses' to the
method printed in Scandanavia, France, and Germany. In the U.S., at
least when John Mendoza printed HIS guess at the method, he called and
asked first, if he was right, and second, would I mind if he then
printed his guess. (Which used double stick tape. No, not the
method.) In this case, however, I realize I'm only allowed a certain
measure of frustration, as all I have is a VERSION of something. As
they say, where do you draw the line?
Msg #2256 Dated 10:32:21 05-12-91 2241 <--> 2458
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BLACK & TELLER
I presume you mean "good" agents...there are no "God" agents, although
some THINK they are!
Alan Thicke comes to mind much before Eddie Albert!
Msg #2257 Dated 10:34:26 05-12-91 2242 <--> 2280
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ELSMLEY COUNT
What's the lowdown on that seemingly casual shuffle he did, Pete?
Msg #2259 Dated 10:21:27 05-12-91 -> 2282
From: MICHAEL AMMAR
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: TOMMY WONDER'S ZOMBIE
I've given up trying to upload the file originally inspired by you on
the Zombie, so I'll try and paraphrase it...
Tommy, as Neil Foster proved, and as you prove everytime I watch
your act, it isn't the prop that is the problem, it's those people who
don't understand that create the problem. As a result, they create the
impression that Pete's original advice is very sound!
Originally, I only performed stage magic, and from 1975 to 1979 I
close my show with - you guessed it - the Zombie. Early in 1977, I was
hired to perform a 6 week run at a dinner theater. Oh boy! The big
Time! I hadn't felt so professional since my business cards first got
printed - so I really wanted to be good.
I was attending WVU at the time, and our Theater Dept. boasted a
'nationally recognized mime.' I've tried to remember his name, but it
escapes me - which is unusual for a mime. In a rare moment of good
judgement, I paid the guy a professional fee to spend several days with
me. I wanted to 'mime' like the ball was floating by itself. As you
said, I needed to DISCONNECT myself from the ball.
My thinking, I believe, was influenced by my studies. I was
taking Speech, Communications, Non-Verbal Languages, etc... I thought
the secret to 'The Float' was in the messages my body and movement were
sending. I wonder if my background had been in Theater, would I have
had the insight to work on Character and Personality that you did? So
many times, I feel I've gotten by IN SP PITE of what I know, not
BECAUSE of what I know. Anyway...
"The problem is," he said, "I can tell it's YOU moving the ball.
The Ball itself isn't moving the scarf around. When you 'fake' like
it's out of control, and pulling you around, etc..., you ruin my mood
because how can something you are so obviously controlling get 'out of
control'. No illusion is created. I can't Suspend my Disbelief when
it's clear the movements of the ball are so closely linked to you?"
(OK, maybe those weren't his EXACT words, but close enough...)
My body, it seemed, always telegraphed where the ball was going to
go. It was not as if the gimmick were attached to my finger, BUT TO
THE BALL AND SOCKET JOINTS IN MY SHOULDERS. It was like my arms were
part of the rigid gimmick.
We practiced for hours making certain the ball, hands, and arms
never moved in unison, or in ANTICIPATION of the others movement. If,
at any time, the upper arms, elbows, or even your head reveals a
prior knowledge of the balls movement BEFORE THE BALL INITIATES THE
MOVEMENT, you have non-verbally tipped the fact that you are in control
of the object. The ball becomes your 'puppet', and a master/puppet
relationship always implies a connection to the object. The best way
to ACT like the ball is floating, it seems, is to only REACT to the
ball.
The ball must ALWAYS initiate the direction of the movement, with
the hands realizing the direction, and then following ONLY when the
ball starts to move the cloth that the hand is holding.
THEN the wrist and arms, and finally, the shoulders and body
realize the direction. Even then, however, all parts which connect you
to the ball SHOULD NOT MOVE IN UNISON. (These parts being the gimmick,
finger, hand, wrist, lower arm, upper arm, and finally, the ball and
socket joint of the shoulders.) As the arms go up, the ball 'bobs'
down, for example. By the time you compensate for the downward 'bob'
of the ball, it is then on it's way back up.
As a rule of thumb, I tried to make certain that all coordinated
movements with the gimmick stopped at the wrist of the hand that worked
the gimmick. With a little thought, the upper arms, shoulders, and
body can be completely disassociated from the movement of the ball.
The type of cloth you use to cover the ball is also a major
factor in how much life, or animated movement, the ball can visibly
achieve without additional movements from the wrist and lower arms. A
heavy, stiff cloth will wash out a lot of the movement, but with fine,
sheer, silk-like coverings - and a properly BENT gimmick - the ball can
do a lot of visible activity without the arms displaying coordinated
movements.
Of course, Tommy, there isn't anything I've said that you didn't
already say, but I thought it interesting that WE BOTH WENT OUTSIDE THE
MAGIC FIELD FOR INSIGHTS ON DISCONNECTING OURSELVES FROM THE FLOATING
OBJECT. To me, your approaching a vent worker for help in conveying
the personality of the object is brilliant! Once again, your
perspective has inspired me!
Msg #2261 Dated 11:28:12 05-12-91 2252 <--> 2265
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Help in protecting EFFECTS may be on the way as a result of the
computer industry! (What an unlikely "marriage!"). Software people
are very concerned with "look and feel." Method is less important. In
essence, they are waging the battle for protection for the external
appearance. With billions of dollars at stake, they have the interest
and the clout to keep working on it.
Msg #2264 Dated 11:51:54 05-12-91 2245 <--> 2271
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Ouch.
Msg #2265 Dated 11:54:10 05-12-91 2252 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Under these rules is would be fair play to tinker with the Macdonald
Aces because the effect had been published before.
But CHINK A CHINK, of course, is published material, so the same right
that allows people to publish variation after variation on MacDonald
Aces, allows them to tinker with variations on Chink A Chink. Even if
the inspiration for their tinkering was your new take on it.
What it sounds like you're objecting to is people poaching a
SIGNIFICANTLY different take on Chink A Chink. And it's this
significantly different tag that plagues all copyrite and patent law.
But, I think, before we shade all those grey areas, I think there's a
lot of work to be done in black and white areas in terms of protecting
people's ideas and establishing some sort of ethical rules. Rule
people could live with, and would not strangle on. Rules that would
still permit the free flow of ideas and would not cause legitimate
authors to look at their manuscripts with a blue pencil and censor
themselves...
A series of rules that does all that would be something!
Msg #2266 Dated 12:22:00 05-12-91
From: TABBY CRABB
To: ALL
Re: NEWITT THE MAGI
I'm trying to track down information on a British
Magician who occasionally published effects in The Magic Wand in
the 1940s. I know quite little about him, but assume that he was
an amateur, was into close-up magic and favoured the cups and
balls. I am especially interested in an appliance which is on
page 2 of issue 220. Apparantly, this has been around but I would
like to trace this device so that I might build one or more with
a clear conscience. His name: A.C. Newitt. The device: The Cups
and Balls Board.
Msg #2269 Dated 13:52:54 05-12-91 -> 2283
From: STEVE BRYANT
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURE
Pete, exactly when (time/date) and where (address) are you
planning to lecture in Indiana?
Msg #2271 Dated 14:20:16 05-12-91 2229 <--> 2272
From: MAX MAVEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
In France there _is_ just such a registry for establishing claim to
presentations. It's closer to ASCAP or BMI than to the Writers Guild.
If a routine is registered, another performer _can_ perform it -- but
a royalty fee must be paid to the originator.
This does not solve the problem of protecting material one wishes to
keep exclusively for one's own use, but it is a step in the right
direction.
Msg #2272 Dated 14:22:38 05-12-91 2233 <--> 2273
From: MAX MAVEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Making a clear-cut definition as to when a variation on a plot or
presentation becomes a new entity is difficult. Obviously, there is a
gray area in the middle where it's almost impossible to define -- sort
of like the old question regarding just when a tadpole becomes a frog.
Having said that, I think that most of the time the situation is _not_
hard to define, because most of the time it is one one side or the
other of that gray area.
But the most important point in this discussion, I think, has to do
with the issue of whether the idea (be it effect, method, presentation,
or combination of same) has been released (published or marketed). If
it has, it's fair game for others to explore. If it hasn't, it's not.
Seems simple to me -- wish it were for others...
Magicians are so used to being able to buy every trick they see, they
often forget that tricks have sources. I once had a Magic Castle member
inquire about a routine he'd seen me do -- where was it in print? I
told him it was not in print, and I did not intend to release it. He
got annoyed, and said, "Well, you can't keep it forever." I replied,
"You don't seem to understand -- the trick is mine; I created it, and
if I choose to keep it for myself that is my choice." He never did get
my point.
Msg #2273 Dated 18:13:41 05-12-91 2272 <--> 2277
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Let's say a magician watches you perform an effect at the Castle.
Let's explore two possibilities -- in possibility A, you perform a new
effect -- something that's just plan new. In possibility B, you
perform a clever variation on a classic that is, still, indisputably
yours by virtue of the originality of the variation.
Okay, I think it's pretty clear that to swipe, duplicate or poah effect
A is wrong no matter which way you slice it. It is the equivalent of
an original short story or novel or screenplay.
BUT -- I don't think it's AS clear in possibility B. This is the grey
area as far as I can see. Let's say the EFFECT is roughly the same as
the classic, but you're clearly not using the classic method. In this
case, I don't think it's as bad for an observing magician to go off ans
try to come up with a way for also making it seem that he is not using
the classic method. It may be obnoxious, it my even be unethical --
but I believe it's on a different plane than possibility A.
From my line of work I am fairly familiar with simple copyrite law, but
I don't know how to apply it here. I know that stories (EFFECTS?) are
copyrite-able, but ideas are not. Titles are not protectable.
Characters are. Where an idea becomes a story is a good question, but,
in fact, there are suprisingly FEW suits considering the volume of the
film, TV and publishing industry. Prevailing law seems to prefer to
encourage a feww flow of ideas and experimentation with such, until you
reach the point of plagerism.
All of which leaves us I don't know where. I do think it's important
in drawing up rules of ethical behavioir to preserve the free flow of
ideas. But magic is different from other types of intellectual
property law.
Have there ever been interpretations of copyrite and patent law as they
apply to magical effects?
I think this is a fascinating area, and just the sort of thing MAGIC!
serves as an excellent forum for discussion on.
Msg #2276 Dated 19:45:33 05-12-91 -> 2306
From: TABBY CRABB
To: ALL
Re: FORM TX
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Copyright your
original routines using Form TX and list it as a dramatic work or
a play. Using this ploy in theory at least the inventing magician
could have the recourse to charge a royalty everytime the "play"
was performed for $$$.
Many trade groups have policing bodies within the
organiation to keep things on the up and up and to avoid govt
intervention. Bodies such as Realtors, AMA, ADA, ABA, etc do
effectively police within their own ranks. This of course, now
assumes that Magicians will have to be licensed and that
licensing exams must be administered; unless magi take the route
of musicians and organize as part of the AFL-CIO.
Try Form TX and at least you have the power of the US
Courts behind you. If I were a professional magician depending
upon my original presentations you can bet your bootie I would at
least take this measure. As a builder the only recourse I have is
to go for excellence, at least this is rarely copied.
Msg #2277 Dated 19:26:17 05-12-91 2271 <--> 2286
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Now, THAT'S an idea with some promise!
I've been a member of ASCAP for over 15 years and I think you know that
ASCAP gets the money not from individual usages of a particular piece
of music as much as from blanket license fees. There is a rather
complex system of monitoring through which representative usages are
logged and, through a point system, royalties are doled out on a
quarterly basis.
The problem you raise is certainly the most severe and the perpetrators
of the abuses are the most reprehensible.
According to current U.S. Copyright law, your work is automatically
Copyrighted UPON CREATION! The forms and fees that are sent in to
Washington are only, technically, to REGISTER officially what is
already your Copyright.
If you have not lost your Copyright, (through publication without
Copyright notice or any other means), you should be able to sue any
person who infringes upon your Copyright.
I would think that methodology is not relevant.
For example, if I wrote the song "Stardust" and have recorded it and
regularly perform it only as a piano solo, anyone who decides to record
a full orchestration with vocal of my song without payment of royalties
is certainly in for a lawsuit.
The parallels in magic may or may not have been established in the eyes
of the law, but it would be an interesting case.
Perhaps all the publication of world-class magic makes it too easy for
uncreative, parasitic individuals to put an act together and get work.
I think it's a case for a return to the old days of second-story magic
shops with almost nothing on display and the good stuff only available
in the back room to established magicians. I don't honestly think the
Genii* can ever be put back in the bottle...but maybe magicians ought
to think twice about publishing and agressively marketing the "real
work!"
.
*I expect a thankyou from Dante for the plug.
.
'Wayne.
Msg #2280 Dated 20:31:55 05-12-91 2257 <--> 2285
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ELSMLEY COUNT
Sorry... it was Fred's and not mine to TIP. Ashe would have said, THINK
ABOUT IT....
Msg #2282 Dated 20:34:28 05-12-91 2259 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: TOMMY WONDER'S ZOMBIE
Why don't you try to do Zombie without the cloth. Imean it... think
about it... Finn Jon doesit without a cloth! Hah. Think, think,think.
Msg #2283 Dated 20:38:11 05-12-91 2269 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: LECTURE
May 20, but I don't know yet. If you keep in touch, I s hold know in a
day or two or three... Sunny Johnson knows, and I will be contacting
here soon. Butmight have to go to St.Louis on IBM biz Tues/Wed. bye
Msg #2285 Dated 21:17:55 05-12-91 2280 <--> 2331
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ELSMLEY COUNT
I understand, (dammit!), I understand...
Msg #2286 Dated 22:24:41 05-12-91 2273 <--> 2289
From: MAX MAVEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
If, in your hypothetical example, the "B" situation involves work that
is genuinely original, then the situation does not fall into a gray
area.
As far as legal protection, current U.S. law is not terribly helpful.
Yes, you can copyright a dramatic sequence, but only up to a point. You
cannot copyright a magic trick per se, only the specific words and/or
illustrations used to describe it. Technically, I could take any effect
in print -- say, the entire contents of the recent Elmsley collection
-- and re-describe it in new words and new pictures. It would be mine
to publish, legally. Ethically, of course, it's a whole other story.
Patent registration is only applicable to what are essentially
mechanical devices. Sleight of hand moves, for example, are not
covered.
Hoping for a legal recourse does not strike me as being particularly
practical. The more functional idea, it seems to me, is that the magic
organizations should pay more attention to this sort of rip-off, and
rather than attempt legal solutions they should deal with theft as a
basis for exclusion.
There was a recent situation at the Magic Castle where a guy came in
and performed much of Del Ray's act. To their credit, members of the
Castle board confronted him, and told him that he would _not_ be able
to perform there in the future, nor join as a member, nor use the
Castle's name in his publicity.
Unfortunately, many magicians are apparently so eager to obtain "new"
secrets that they leave their ethics at the door. Theft, therefore,
winds up being encouraged, at least tacitly.
As I have observed in the past, to many magicians "creativity" is
defined as stealing from more than one source.
Msg #2289 Dated 23:10:13 05-12-91 2286 <--> 2296
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Organizations like IBM make it a practice to publicize the names of
candidates prior to issuing their membership certificates. While I
don't know the specific rules, I assume that someone could be
"blackballed" in one form or another for unethical behavior. On the
other hand, the Castle does not have such a system, pehaps relying on
the knowledge and wisdom of the membership committee.
Although, as you mentioned, it would largely be impractical for an
individual to sue another individual over the "theft" of an effect, I
suspect that someone denied membership in an organization COULD sue the
organization for excluding them, thus causing them a financial hardship
in their chosen profession.
I once served as the President of a professional organization
(non-magical) and had to revoke someone's membership for violation of
ethics. Believe me, I sweated as I felt it would have been quite
possible for the person to sue both the organization and me personally.
While in court we could have demonstrated how the individual's actions
were harmful, interpretation of that, along with a decision on the
appropriateness and severity of the "punishment," and the effect on the
individual's career would have been left to a judge with little or no
knowledge of industry standards and practices. Fortunately, the
individual did not take such action.
Msg #2296 Dated 1:10:45 05-13-91 2286 <--> 2299
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Here's an interesting real world analogy. I, a writer, create a
character like Phillip Marlowe. No one can ever steal Marlowe away
from me, but by the same token, I cannot prevent people from being
influenced by and drawing from my character. Once I expose the "idea,"
it is out there. The difference between performing an effect and
publishing it is clear -- it involves the intent of the creator/author.
But performing it is exposing it all the same, and there is an
inevitable ripple created in the creative waters whenever something is
exposed.
What I'm getting at is that the free flow of ideas must be addressed.
The analogy between magic and writing breaks down quickly -- when you
publish, you do so with one, clear intent. When you perform a trick,
you expose your material without that same intent.
s
Msg #2299 Dated 1:21:45 05-13-91 2277 <--> 2304
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Can't say I agree with the latter part of your message. Seems to me
that the exposure of the "real work" to the community of magi as a
whole, however amateur or professional, has contributed greatly to the
development and enrichment of the craft. How many of the great
close-up magicians were not pros? How many of us got into magic by
being exposed to it in ways that would not have happened had magic
slipped more into the "back room?" How many fantastic secrets and
effects would have been lost with their creators had the community
preserved them?
Magicians publish and market their "real work" for reasons other than
money, I must assume. Every professional wants to be recognized by his
peers. Creators generally wish to see their accomplishments
acknowledged -- it gives great pleasure, it advances the craft, and
creates new members of the community.
Msg #2303 Dated 1:48:03 05-13-91 2231 <--> 2315
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: GENII
I made a "one shot" cover with the logo
EXACTLY where you mentioned and mailed it off
to Eugene. I explained that that was the
"European" version. Hope he has a sense of
humor.
Msg #2304 Dated 1:28:53 05-13-91 2299 <--> 2321
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Well, it seems that many of your "new members of the community" haven't
brought any sense of ethics with them!
I understand your point, Evan, but any idiot from off the street can
stumble into a magic shop and buy himself an "act"...AND GET WORK...
it seems to me that the precious secrets of the "community" have become
much too available to the general public. Consequently, many folks
think that ANYBODY can do magic...and in fact, THEY'RE RIGHT...maybe
not very good magic, but not enough people know the difference. Just
take a look at some of the rank amateurs advertising their
"professional" services for parties, etc. and GETTING WORK. People
just don't generally know any better. Great magic is all but invisible
in the mass media and the only exposure, (I *HATE* that word!), that
many people get to magic is what shows up at these parties!
There have always, even in the most secretive of the backroom days,
been ways of bringing new blood into the profession and into the hobby.
The problem is that anyone with even a CASUAL CURIOSITY would have
absolutely NO trouble getting at many of what should be the most
treasured secrets of magic!
Maybe it's because mass media and its rewards have been elusive to most
magicians. Let's face it, how many laymen know who Dai Vernon is?
How about Slydini, Charlie Miller...I could go on and on...but you get
my point, I'm sure. Many of the greatest masters of the magical art
are virtually UNKNOWN outside of the "community" you speak of.
Because the money that mass media can provide has generally bypassed
Magicians, perhaps they bolster their income by selling their secrets.
Sure, when magic secrets, technique and methodology are aggressively
marketed, a profit can be made...but at what cost to the "community?"
At what cost to the profession?
I don't know what the answers are, to be honest.
I guess I'm just voicing some frustration here, so take no offense.
Msg #2305 Dated 3:51:30 05-13-91 45 <-
From: DAVE MAGNENAT
To: JIM HOY
Re: RABBITS
Thanks for your info on the rabbit...and I'm sorry I took so long to
reply. I am not new to magic but am new to performing for kids...my
family kind of 'happened' upon the rabbit and since wifey-poo has
actual custody of the rabbit (and therefore is the one aroun dthe house
who does the clean up, etc) it's a very nice situation for me! I'm
looking now at building/buying the proper apparatus for bunny
production for the show.
Thanks again
Msg #2306 Dated 4:21:55 05-13-91 2276 <--> 2307
From: DAVID LUTHER
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FORM TX
Tabby.... Under revised Copyright Law, wouldn't form PA or VA be
more correct? Form PA is proper form for published and unpublished
works of the performing arts (musical and dramatic works, pantomimes
and choreographic works, motion pictures and other audiovisual works)
and form VA is for the visual arts (pictorial, graphic and sculptural
works including archiitectural works); Form TX is for non-dramatic
literary works, excluding periodicals or serial issues (form SE and/
or GR/CP for serials and group of contributions to periodicals) and
includes wide variety of works; fiction, non-fiction, poetry,
textbooks, reference works, directories, catalogs, advertising copy,
dissertations, theses, reports, speeches, single pages containing text
compilations of information, and computer programs. (Note: recent
court decision will effect directories and compilations of information
but that is outside this discussion). If anyone wants more
information you can call the Copyright Office Hotline at 202/707-9100
and leave a recorded message requesting forms. They are generally sent
out within a few days. I would suggest requesting Circular 1
(Copyright Basics), Forms TX, PA, VA, SE, SE/GROUP and GR/CP, together
with the full instructions for each form. There is no cost for these
materials.
Msg #2307 Dated 5:50:03 05-13-91 2306 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LUTHER (X)
Re: FORM TX
David,
I was just sleepily writing off the top of my head, but I
guess you're right about using PA which I use all the time for
music. The point is that there is at least a modicum of
protection (none if you don't use the system) provided by
US Copyright Law.
You, as a magical attorney, can provide much help to
MAGIC! bbsers in this area. I feel that theft of another's ideas,
routines, etc is deplorable and would hope that somewhere down
the line there is a test case (granted it would be expensive) and
that ownership can be backed up in court.
On another subject: I had supper with one of your Austin
pals the other day...Kent Cummins and he speaks highly of you.
I'm already making plans to come to ya'll's auction the last
Saturday in Feb 1992. See you then, if not before.
tabman
Msg #2310 Dated 8:26:29 05-13-91 -> 2324
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: SQUEEZE
- Messages to/from US ----------------------------- LOCAL008 -
Msg : 228 of 228 - 226 Loc
From : Tommy Wonder 11 May 91 18:04:00
To : Magic-Us
Subj : Question
--------------------------------------------------------------
To Wayne Powers
Hello, the "squeeze" effect I personally do not make. Ton Onosaka
has manufactured these and you might try to buy it from him. I do
not know if he still has these available, but it is the only
source (apart from making it yourself. The quality is excellent.
Kind regards, Tommy..
Msg #2311 Dated 8:31:24 05-13-91
From: TABBY CRABB
To: HARRISON CARROLL
Re: FFFF
I'm sending you some stuff in the mail that might help your MAGIC!
efficiency. Yeah, great time. Lets do it again.
Msg #2313 Dated 9:40:10 05-13-91 -> 2316
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: LUNCH ON THE 17TH
Just talked to Johnny Ace Palmer and he wants to come to the luncheon
if we have room. I told him it was ok. Maybe somebody will dro ip out
so you and I won't have to sit in the hall.
Msg #2315 Dated 9:55:38 05-13-91 2303 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: GENII
He'd better have a sense of humor! After all, he's going to see
"Professor Hockmann's" revelation too!
Msg #2316 Dated 10:05:50 05-13-91 2313 <--> 2333
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LUNCH ON THE 17TH
Don't worry! We'll find a way for Johnny Ace to fit in! After all, as
the first performer ever to be digitized during a performance, he is a
member of the MAGIC! Hall of Fame!
Msg #2321 Dated 11:22:45 05-13-91 2304 <--> 2325
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
No offense taken. But I can't help thinking that you're being an
alarmist when you talk about the damage being done by bad magicians.
Doesn't this smack of when our parents muttered that things were better
when they were kids?
I think there have always been plenty of bad magicians out there. And
keeping part of the art open to the public has always been necessary to
keep magic growing and continuously alive. I don't think that the
greaters access to the secrets of the greats makes a difference,
frankly. Is ot really worse that a bad magician can now embarrass
himself by doing a great trick badly, as opposed to a dealer-bought
trick badly?
I guess I'm just not sure the problem you worry about is really a
problem. And, I think the only thing you could DO about it --restrict
access by not having magi publish or market so much-- would harm our
art immeasurably.
Unrelated -- are you going to Fri's lunch?
Msg #2324 Dated 12:19:07 05-13-91 2310 <--> 2343
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SQUEEZE
Many thanks, Tommy. If you have Ton Onosaka's address, I'd appreciate
forwarding it on to me. How great to be able to "chat" with you thanks
to this wonderful system.
Best wishes,
'Wayne.
Msg #2325 Dated 12:22:57 05-13-91 2321 <--> 2332
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
I appreciate your thoughts. I don't think publishing in itself does
the damage...it's the agressive marketing and common availability in
open marketplaces that I think takes its toll on magic. I could be
wrong and, in fact, I hope I am...as I LOVE being able to read about
all kinds of effects...those relating to my performing and those
totally unrelated.
Speaking of "unrelated"...As of now, lunch on Fri. is a "go."
How about you?
Msg #2331 Dated 16:18:07 05-13-91 2285 <--> 2355
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ELSMLEY COUNT
OK, hold the cards sideways (lngways?) and use an overhand shuffle and
switch the cards in same sequence as the Hamman. Dig?
Msg #2332 Dated 16:21:11 05-13-91 2321 <--> 2344
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
My guess is that if you went to a songbirds convention thereould be
just as many crappy singers and stealing of songs, styles, etc. as at
a Guitar Players's conventions as at a Magicican's Conventions as at a
Flower arranger's convention.... as ...er...
Msg #2333 Dated 16:24:34 05-13-91 2316 <--> 2360
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LUNCH ON THE 17TH
I will be at lunch friday... but in Indiana...arrrggghhhhh
Msg #2338 Dated 17:03:54 05-13-91 -> 2351
From: RILEY MATTHEWS
To: ALL
Re: NEW MEMBER
Hello all, I am a new member to the Magic line. I am a Professional
Psychic Entertainer. I hope to be an active member to this select group
of Magi,Mentalist, and the rest.
Msg #2340 Dated 17:15:35 05-13-91 -> 2363
From: RILEY MATTHEWS
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC
I would like to thank every concerned with putting together this very
UNIQUE BBS for the serios Magi, Mentalist, etc.
Msg #2341 Dated 17:19:46 05-13-91
From: RILEY MATTHEWS
To: PEA MEMBERS
Re: PEA MEMBERS
Are there any other Psychic Entertainers Association members on line.
If so please let me now. I guess that since I'm a Psychic Entertainer
I should already know this (HA HA). Or any other Shadow Network Members
on board.
Riley G.
New York City's
Psychic Entertainer
*** Retired NYPD Police Officer (Accidental-Disability)
Msg #2343 Dated 17:45:56 05-13-91 2324 <--> 2358
From: MAX MAVEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: SQUEEZE
Magic Land, Yamatoya Bldg., 3-5-2 Kayaba-cho, Nihonbashi, Chuo-ku,
Tokyo 103, Japan. Fax # is 011-8133-666-4749 (fax is not on during
store hours, 10:30 AM to 6:30 PM Tokyo time).
Msg #2344 Dated 17:48:18 05-13-91 2289 <--> 2345
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Relying on the "knowledge and wisdom" of the Magic Castle membership
committee is a rather terrifying notion.
Msg #2345 Dated 17:49:28 05-13-91 2332 <--> 2346
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
I absolutely disagree with you, Pete. Unlike other performing arts,
magic is based upon overt secrecy. (Other arts have their secrets --
more than outsiders generally realize -- but not as their starting
point.) What this does, unfortunately, is to put undue focus upon the
hidden method. The result is that many people judge the quality of a
magic performance purely in terms of whether or not the trick(s)
worked. Other criteria are relegated to secondary consideration.
This attitude fosters bad performing, and puts originality on a back
burner -- which in turn makes the issue of theft less important, and
thus eventually tolerable.
Magic is by no means the only area of performing in which there is
theft. For example, the field of tap-dancing is rife with it. But there
is a sad difference in attitude.
For instance, there's a great deal of stealing in the comedy field.
A comedian will try to find justification for copping someone else's
line ("I really need it because if fits in a sequence I already have,"
or, "The line fits my style," or, "Well, we don't work the same circuit
so who'll know?" and so on). Such justification will allow that comic
to flex his/her ethics to the point of taking the line, but they
usually know deep down that it was a transgression.
The difference with magicians is that most don't perceive their
theft as being wrong in the first place.
Also, I think that at a "songbirds" convention the audience will be
aware that a "crappy performance" is just that. This is because (as
broached in the first paragraph above) in music simply hitting the
right notes (i.e., making the music-trick work) is not enough.
Msg #2346 Dated 18:30:14 05-13-91 2325 <--> 2347
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
I'll be there. Looking forward to meeting you.
Msg #2347 Dated 18:30:49 05-13-91 2332 <--> 2356
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
I agree. It's that old bell curve at work again.
Msg #2350 Dated 18:32:56 05-13-91
From: MANNY WELTMAN
To: ALL
Re: PLAGIARISM
For over forty years, I have researched and written on the life of
Harry Houdini. Sometimes it takes me months, often years to gather
the information that goes into one of my articles. You know when you
see my biline that what you read is as close to the truth as possible.
Lately, however, other writers, that want to take the easy way out,
have been plagirizing my good work, and calling it their own.
As an example, a writer has rewritten information taken from my 1967-68
copyrighted Houdini bibliography that ran in Genii magazine and is
trying to have it published under his own name!
To those who would steal from others. The history of magic is like a
gold mine, with so much to discover. Why not do your own research, and
stop jumping anothers claim!
Msg #2351 Dated 20:00:06 05-13-91 2338 <--> 2367
From: STAN LAKE
To: RILEY MATTHEWS (X)
Re: NEW MEMBER
Welcome Riley! Where do you perform and what sort of psychic
entertainment do you do? Tell us a little about yourself and welcome
to the Magic! board.
Msg #2352 Dated 20:08:23 05-13-91 2174 <--> 2366
From: JERRY BURTON
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: MAGIC MENU BOOK
I just received your letter today, sounds like the kind pub I could
use. I'll send an order to start with vol 2, I would like the bound
vol 1 per this offer. Should I send one check ??
Msg #2354 Dated 20:09:35 05-13-91 -> 2373
From: BURT CARPENTER
To: ALL
Re: THE END IS NEAR
The deadline is approaching for ordering your special MAGIC! members
only, autographed copy of _THE MAGIC OF MICHAEL AMMAR_. This will
surely be a rare collectors item as only 4 copies have been ordered so
far! The deadline for your order to be in is May 20. This 328 page
work should be required in every serious magician's library. For a
more complete description see message #1699
Msg #2355 Dated 20:14:14 05-13-91 2331 <--> 2430
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ELSMLEY COUNT
AAAAArrrrrgggghhh!!!
You weren't supposed to tip that!!!
Msg #2356 Dated 20:17:12 05-13-91 2346 <--> 2359
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Same here, Evan. It should be a great lunch.
Msg #2358 Dated 20:19:02 05-13-91 2343 <--> 2375
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: SQUEEZE
I just KNEW you'd pop in with that info, Max!
(Does this qualify me for membership in P.E.A.?)
Incidentally, it was very impressive to overhear your seemingly fluent
conversational Japanese at the Castle recently.
Pardon my typically American provincialism, but...
in corresponding to Japan, is it considered at all rude to address mail
"phonetically" and have the text of the correspondence in English?
If so, I can probably ask some Japanese friends to write a letter for
me in proper Japanese.
Anyway...thanks very much for the info!
'Wayne.
Msg #2359 Dated 20:29:04 05-13-91 2344 <--> 2369
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
I didn't say that it was reassuring or soothing, only that I assumed
that was the approach that the Castle had taken, since, to the best of
my knowledge, they do not pre-publish a list of candidates for
membership.
Keep in mind, however, that I am a notorious optimist (not to be
confused with Optimist).
Msg #2360 Dated 20:32:20 05-13-91 2333 <--> 2552
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LUNCH ON THE 17TH
We'll be thinking of you. Actually, in Indiana you will already have
eaten lunch.
Msg #2363 Dated 20:35:43 05-13-91 2340 <--> 2368
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: RILEY MATTHEWS (X)
Re: MAGIC
We're glad to have you joining us, Randy. Look forward to your joining
in the conversations here on MAGIC!
Msg #2366 Dated 21:19:30 05-13-91 2352 <-
From: JIM SISTI
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MAGIC MENU BOOK
Since you'll be a subscriber, the book is $20.00 Send me a check for
$35.00 and I'll start your subscription with Issue #7 for six issues
and send along the book when it's available in a couple of weeks.
Welcome aboard!
Msg #2367 Dated 21:05:06 05-13-91 2351 <--> 2505
From: RILEY MATTHEWS
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: NEW MEMBER
Hello Stan, I perform for colleges, corporations, and for Police
Fraternal Groups (F.O.P, P.B.A., etc)
My show is based on the theme of the Psychic Detective. I use Mental
Telepathy, Clairvoyance, and Psychometry. All based upon my 11 years in
Police work. I combine real tales from my Police files. to this I have
added the effects that would have made this real
I have been in the Psychic business for approx. 17 years. I started out
doing Magic. But moved to Mentalism, I found it more to my liking.
So what is your line in this business???
I have moved into the Professional end of this business, since my
forced retirement from the NYPD. I sufferred a major neck injury while
on duty. I'm lucky that I can still walk, but I don't let these
injuries kept me down.
If you recieve Magick Magazine, you will see that I have been published
within the pages. Most of my effects that I have had published are
within the Official Magazine for the Psychic Entertainers Association's
"Vibrations." Well, Better close for now. I kept having to go back and
delete lines. I have garbage jumping onto my screen. Must be a storm in
the making.
Riley G.
New York City's
Psychic Entertainer
8891-15th Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11228
(718) 331-1960
Msg #2368 Dated 21:33:21 05-13-91 2363 <-
From: RILEY MATTHEWS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC
Thanks Dave,
Later. RILEY G.
Msg #2369 Dated 22:44:56 05-13-91 2345 <--> 2374
From: JERRY BURTON
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Does anyone outside the 'inner circle' really care, whether what they
are seeing is someone else's material or not ? Can most people tell
if an effect is original or not ? Isn't the main consideration
that if an effect is done well it furthers the art, and when it is
done badly it hurts the art.
.
If you have an original effect or a unique variation on a standard,
I contend that most people would be just as amazed by the original.
You will fool magicians that know the original, but that is a
minority of any audience.
.
Msg #2371 Dated 22:49:16 05-13-91
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: IMP!
I think I solved the ER and EA auto upload problem, this is a test
of the E function. I'm entering this one manually and capturing the
sequence. Should have it all worked out by the end of the week.
See you Friday (I got it right this time didn't I ?)
Msg #2373 Dated 23:23:18 05-13-91 2354 <-
From: RICHARD HART
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: THE END IS NEAR
What's the status on Thavant, Burt? Gawd, a SIGNED Ammar?
An honest-ta-god inscription? Hmmm, I may have a surplus $45 laying
around (ducking due to an inside joke). Sure, what the hell. This
offer is just TOO GOOD to pass up. I mean, after all, Ammar's video
taught me the _proper_ Vernon wand spin, and I absolutely HATE his cups
and balls routine (nothing should be that good!). Let me get the wife
and checkbook in a half-Nelson, and I'll mail you off a check.
Count me in!
_richard
Msg #2374 Dated 23:29:16 05-13-91 2369 <--> 2377
From: MAX MAVEN
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Whether, in your words, "anyone outside the 'inner circle' really
care[s]... whether what they are seeing is someone else's material or
not" I cannot say. What I _can_ say, however, is that they damn well
ought to care.
I'll certainly agree that "if an effect is done well it furthers the
art, and when it is done badly it hurts the art." But it doesn't end
there. If an effect is stolen the art is damaged, pure and simple.
Msg #2375 Dated 23:33:12 05-13-91 2358 <--> 2389
From: MAX MAVEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: SQUEEZE
The address I uploaded is exactly how it should appear on the envelope;
the Japanese postal service handles a lot of mail addressed in English,
and there's no problem as long as the information is correct.
As for your letter, if you have a friend write it in Japanese it'll
be easier for Magic Land to deal with, but a letter written in simple
English will work.
Msg #2377 Dated 0:01:34 05-14-91 2332 <--> 2421
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
The difference is that when people hear bad singers they don't draw the
conclusion that SINGING is bad -- because, perhaps, they have seen a
lot of good singer-performers...but they see a bad magician, and maybe
since they don't see magicians all that often anyway (and when they do
MOST OF THEM ARE BAD), they naturally draw the conclusion that magic
itself is bad, a second-rate art.
Msg #2381 Dated 1:33:04 05-14-91 -> 2382
From: DOUGLAS LARSON
To: ANY AMIGA USERS
Re: HARD DISK ???
HELP! this has nothing to do with magic, but all of my Magic! file may
be locked on the hard disk due to a problem with the disk not
validating properly. Any one that is knowledgable on the Amiga 2000
with the 2088 bridgecard in it may be able to help me make these files
"appear" from their hidding place. Can I get a reply from some of you
so I know who to ask my ever increasing list of questions to?
If you don't know about the amiga you probably won't be able to help.
My hard disk is crashing Help Help Help!
Msg #2382 Dated 2:20:47 05-14-91 2381 <--> 2408
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DOUGLAS LARSON (X)
Re: HARD DISK ???
Douglas -
You are local, so there are some resources that might be able to help.
One is KJ Computers, 10815 Zelzah Ave., Granada Hills (818-366-5305 or
818-366-9120). There are also some Amiga specific bulletin boards in
the local area. One that I've heard is good is called "1939." By
modem it is 818-368-4248. I have some other Amiga BBS numbers, but I
don't know if they are still around or not - Amiga Mania, 818-352-3424;
and Amiga on Top - 818-999-2630.
My son's Amiga doesn't have a hard drive so I've never mastered the unique
intricacies of working with one.
Msg #2385 Dated 5:57:15 05-14-91
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: ALL
Re: CASTLE SWAP MEET
I got word yesterday that I have to go to L.A. June 3-7. Richard Hatch
reminded me that the Castle Swap Meet is Sat. June 1, so I'm going to
try to make it. Can anyone give me details - what time, is it open to
everyone, any fees, etc.? Thanks in advance.
Charlie
Msg #2389 Dated 9:23:14 05-14-91 2375 <-
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: SQUEEZE
Thanks again.
Msg #2394 Dated 10:17:57 05-14-91 1998 <--> 2431
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PENN AND TABMAN CANCELLED
AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!
Msg #2395 Dated 10:18:25 05-14-91 2006 <--> 2412
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VISIT
We have very few "Mexican" farm workers in the Dee Cee Area and I
don't think the Tabman's plantation is THAT far south!
Msg #2396 Dated 10:19:01 05-14-91 2026 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: HARRY LORAYNE
Actually Wayne is probably quite accurate in his description of
Harry as a "New York" Pitchman. Harry would be likely to agree
since he has related both in person and in print the story of how
as a very young man just starting in magic, he and Lou Tannen (if
my memory serves correctly) took a carload of Svengali decks to
Florida to pitch them for badly needed cash.
Msg #2397 Dated 10:19:26 05-14-91 2038 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ELMSLEY COUNT
The late Larry West used to do the Elmsley count with four, five,
six, and other various numbers of cards and other items. In
fact, he did the Elmsley count with coins, dollar bills (a couple
of his best effects), and at one point considered using cats from
the audience (however, some jugglers scoped him).
Msg #2399 Dated 10:21:04 05-14-91 2117 <--> 2414
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ALSO TO FROG AND COUNT ZA
Thanks for the welcome back! I actually had a very nice visit to
Bluffton. The I.B.M. Management Team (Howard Bamman, Bill
Spooner, Earle Christenberry, Jim Nagel, and yours truly) meets
in the spring and fall to conduct the nitty gritty business of
the operational oversight of the I.B.M. That translates to
budgets, planning, and associated activities dealing with the
operation of the headquarters office at Bluffton, "The Linking
Ring", and the Convention. Aside from being the location of the
Bluffton News (publisher of the LR) and our headquarters,
Bluffton is a delightful little rural town in mid Ohio about 1
1/2 hours by car from Dayton. When you walk down the street,
everyone who sees you knows you are from out of town. We had a
productive meeting with our accountant, and toured the press room
where I saw the June LR cover with a hot pink border and JADE
featured actually coming off the presses. We even did an
impromptu magic show after dinner for a group of the local folks
at the home of Marilyn Edwards our Executive Secretary. I do
mean impromptu! I can now add doing the cups and balls with
coffee mugs, lemons, and grapes to my repertoire.
Msg #2400 Dated 10:21:42 05-14-91 2118 <--> 2403
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
Actually, if you take a look at the original Elmsley effect in
which he introduced the use of the Ghost Count, it very much
involved a lady! However, in most decks she is not a blonde.
Msg #2402 Dated 10:23:57 05-14-91 2176 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: CASSADAGA
Gadzooks! First the magic clubs...now the mediums! Either you are
Houdini reincarnated or totally without mercy!!
(Grin!)
Seriously...that was interesting, I didn't know such a place
existed!
Msg #2403 Dated 10:24:33 05-14-91 1984 <--> 2415
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
David...
I assume that you are aware that some of the bulletin board
programs such as PC Board have doors which permit the users to vote
or answer questions on certain issues. This approach could be used
to poll the users on books, shows, tricks, etc. While I am not
sure exactly how the doors work, they appear to allow you to shell
out of the BBS program into the add on program within the door.
This would allow your rating guide to indicate the opinion of a
group. Insofar as the ratings or opinions of a single reviewer,
I very much agree with T. A. Waters in that one must be familiar
with the tastes of the reviewer in order to be able to derive the
correct picture from the review.
On the second point, as a biologist I would have to agree that
kidding a frog is a direct violation of ontogeny recapitulating
phylogeny. I certainly should have known better.
Msg #2406 Dated 10:28:35 05-14-91 -> 2568
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: OLD SILVER
I don't think I ever answered this one.
I don't have lots of old coin gaffs, but do have a Hayden
Morgan Head expanded, reg shell, and shaved dollar set, at least
one liberty folding half or dollar (can't remember) and a few
other odds and ends. I use dollars when doing the Ramsay stuff
and a few other coin effects. You want 'em well rubbed for
Ramsay so they don't talk. Used to use fake (but good looking)
confederate bills for the Ghost Deal. Wrapped the deck in them
and also put a bullet hole in one of the bills. Also have some
real Confederate money but I'm saving that. Good to see that you
apparently got by George's while in Buffalo. I would love to get
into the back room there again.
Msg #2407 Dated 10:29:15 05-14-91 -> 2569
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FFFF
Didn't get a chance to express my appreciation for your "You Were
There" coverage of the last F.F.F.F. It brought back lots of
good memories. I was a regular in the early days when the total
attendance was only 40 or 50 people and EVERYONE worked both up
and downstairs. Eddie held forth at the bar and also lectured
and performed upstairs. There was no lecture the night before
and everyone hung out in the bar (actually sometimes more
enjoyable than when the convention started. I went back once
after Eddie died and it was just too different without him.
There was also just too many people and the night before had been
displaced with a lecture. I haven't been back since although I
still think fondly of those early F.F.F.F.'s. I always enjoyed
my visits to George's and from your rather obtuse comments it
would appear that George's is still there. Anyhow...many thanks
for sharing it all with us.
Msg #2408 Dated 10:44:45 05-14-91 2382 <-
From: DOUGLAS LARSON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: HARD DISK ???
David,
Thanks I have left messages on 1939 but not much help yet. I will call
the others and try kj computers. Thanks for trying.
Msg #2409 Dated 10:44:49 05-14-91 -> 2434
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: ZOMBIE
- Messages to/from US ------------------------------------- LOCAL008 -
Msg : 235 of 235 Loc
From : Tommy Wonder 14 May 91 02:58:00
To : Magic-Us
Subj : zombie again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Michael,
.
It was very interesting to read your comments. You explain the things
very well. And yes, most of the points you mention I agree with. The
ball and the hands should indeed not move in unision. That's a dead
give-away.
However, I am not sure wether or not the ball should always initiate
the movement. It is good of course to suggest the ball has its own
will and you follow, but it can also be done the other way. You could
try to coax the ball in a certain direction, sort of pulling the ball
with the cloth and then it follows your direction. In that case the
disconnection is also there. As long as the movements of the hand and
the ball are not the same at the same time.
.
Like I wrote last time, there are several ways how a ball can float.
If it becomes as light as air, it will move like a balloon (Not very
good I think for a ball, but perfectly acceptable for something the
audience KNOWS cannot be as light as air, something like a live
rabbit may be!). If it does not become light, it remains heavy.
Little drafts of air or slight movements will not move it. In such a
case there can be many reasons to
the "magical" method which makes it float. May be it is lifted by
some force out of the universe. Or may be the force is inside the
ball, sort of like a space ship (in that case the ball is treated a
lot different, because the ball itself is magical). Or it is lifted
by your mind power! It floats by your concentration! In such a case
your whole body would constantly anticipate the movements of the
ball, since you are controlling it with your mind power. I think
such a presentation can be quite effective, heavy breathing, sweat
on your forehead. No quick and easy movements. In such a presentation
there would be almost contant anticipation. But also there, one must
not have the hands and the ball move in unision.
.
It all depends on what one decides to do. one makes a choice as to
what makes it float and then decide how it would behave. There are
many possibilities. That why I wrote last time that the first step
one must take is to think about what you want to achieve. How the
ball will behave etc.
.
It was interesting to read Pete Biro's remark to do the zombie
without a cloth, because I have always felt that that would be the
ultimate test to see if one does the routine well. Why not get
yourself booked on a show, not an important one, but may be in a
group of amateur performers who work for free in a hospital or
something like that. Get on that show and have yourself announced,
not as a magician, but as a mime artist or may be a puppet player.
Then go out and do your routine, but do it without the cloth! Why
not. Since people think you are a mime or puppet player they will
not mind seeing the gimmick, just as much as the audience does not
mind seeing the threads of a marionet, or the sticks (or should I say
Zombie gimmicks!) attached to the hands of certain "stick" puppets.
Now, when you do the routine this way and people are not highly
captivated with the routine, then there must be something wrong.
But if it moves and acts, it can be very captivating. Someone like
Michael Mochon could make this into a highly succesfull, and no
doubt very magical piece. Of course it is not a magic trick but a
mime piece or puppet play. But the illusion of the ball being
alive and floating, is basically just the same. There is no
difference to the creation of the illusion wether you use or do not
use a cloth.
.
To change the name of "puppet play" into "magic trick", all you need
to do is to throw a cloth over it, that's all. The cloth turns the
puppet into a magic trick by hiding the gimmick. It cannot make the
illusion, because the illusion is not created by the gimmick, the
illusion is made by the understanding and the handling. The cloth
can never hide the lack of understanding or incorrect handling.
.
In some ways zombie is the perfect trick. Basically there is no
physical secret, its all psychology, handling and acting. With many
tricks people can pretend that they have studied their art, because
their lack of artistry and skill are protected by the secret! Not so
with zombie.
.
You know Michael, sometimes I think that zombie is to magic, what
magic is to the other arts. It is held in very low esteem, and yet
it CAN be one of the best!
.
See you in Lausanne!
.
Tommy Wonder.
Msg #2410 Dated 10:57:04 05-14-91 -> 2419
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: LUNCH
Would you believe that after your message, I thought I'd better check
and see how many I had left. However I know it was not a problem,
'cause I knew I had plenty. But in checking, guess what, I am low..
However, have no fear. I'm sure that by checking all my jacket
pockets, dresser drawers, etc, I can come up enough. Have placed an
order for more, but that takes 6 weeks. BUT FRIDAY IS COVERED.
Is there a short-cut way to address a message to you, rather than
using your name?
Msg #2412 Dated 11:20:40 05-14-91 2395 <--> 2490
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VISIT
OK, then we'll pretend to be CIA agents traveling incognito as Mexican
farm workers.
Msg #2413 Dated 11:22:13 05-14-91 2070 <--> 2491
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MAGIC! AT IBM
Saw the surprise? I'm having it framed for the MAGIC! Wall of Fame!
Msg #2414 Dated 11:23:31 05-14-91 2399 <--> 2492
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ALSO TO FROG AND COUNT ZA
Glad to hear that magic is alive and well in Bluffton. Wish you could
join us for lunch in L.A. on Friday - it ain't Bluffton, but the local
magi will be dropping by.
Msg #2415 Dated 11:27:26 05-14-91 2400 <--> 2416
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
Yes, more of a grey haired old lady. Jack is the only blonde in a
typical deck. Guess the lady liked blondes though - "Put the Jack on
the Queen, It'll turn your money green..."
Msg #2416 Dated 11:30:59 05-14-91 2403 <--> 2422
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
We do have the ability to run questionaires. Have a couple in the
planning stages. The capability for them is built into MAGIC!
Thanks for quoting one of my favorite phrases. I would also remind you
that tadpoles develop in a proximodistal and cephalocaudal manner.
Msg #2419 Dated 12:08:57 05-14-91 2410 <--> 2420
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: LUNCH
Thanks, Marv. You are a prince to come up with the pins. If
necessary, I will forego my second one. It's folks like you that make
the luncheon, and MAGIC!, special.
Frankly, I never send messages to myself, so I don't know the
shortcuts. But I just ran a test and you can address a message to
SYSOP. Sounds kinda cold, but it does work. If you would prefer, I
could shorten my name.
Msg #2420 Dated 12:33:55 05-14-91 2419 <--> 2438
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LUNCH
Don't think you should shorten it. Everything is probably short enough
already. Did we settle the matter of the centerpiece?
As they say, "No seat, no pin".
Msg #2421 Dated 15:42:15 05-14-91 2377 <--> 2445
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
You really feel audiences are this dumb and thick-headed? That they
aren't bright enough to know that when they see a bad magician, all
magicians aren't bad? Why in the world would you think this? this
reminds me of Penn & Tellers's (disingenuous) "problem" with magicians
-- that they have contempt toward their audiences.
Msg #2422 Dated 16:47:31 05-14-91 2043 <--> 2424
From: JERRY BURTON
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
Judging by the reviews I see, I think someone beat you to it.
Msg #2423 Dated 16:47:38 05-14-91 2044 <--> 2435
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DOUGLAS LARSON (X)
Re: KAMAR
Are you serious ? Letterman treated him like most people on the show.
He can't wait for them to finish their bit, so he can retake
center stage. Why people want to go on his show & be put down
is beyond me.
.
As for Kmar, I think Letterman has him on as a perverse way of
getting even with Penn & Teller and their bug bit (which blew
Letterman right out of his chair). Kmar falls into the P&T's
definition of a 'greasy rabbit-puller' (are single quotes OK ?).
Msg #2424 Dated 16:47:45 05-14-91 2055 <--> 2425
From: JERRY BURTON
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
Yes, he is a jr. member and it showed. He has had excellant
coaching.
Msg #2425 Dated 16:47:51 05-14-91 2056 <--> 2427
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
Individual reviews could be used by the performers to sharpen
their acts. How many times do you get the audiences true
impressions. If 10 people tell you you were great, and 50
thought you needed work, you could fall into the abyss-of-self-
delusion that many magicians seem to occupy. Being objective
about your own performance is one of the most difficult tasks
we face. If we had some independant means of getting critical
reviews it would be very helpful, of course not everyone would
like the idea - as they know they have the best act around !
Msg #2426 Dated 16:48:00 05-14-91 2060 <--> 2442
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RDMAGIC
Further investigation shows you are right. The problem comes on
the E response, which I'm not going to allow for. When you are
entering a straight E type msg there is no need to have it in
the file generated by IMP!, you can always upload it an
individual file.
Msg #2427 Dated 16:48:07 05-14-91 2114 <--> 2432
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
Wouldn't that be a revelation ! If half the guys working today
could hear what non-magicians think about their stuff, there
might be some interesting changes made.
Msg #2430 Dated 17:08:17 05-14-91 2355 <--> 2455
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ELSMLEY COUNT
I didn't tip anything. If you saw him do it, I only described the
effect here.... IF YOU HAD THOGHT ABOUT IT you would come up with the
same conclusions.G
Msg #2431 Dated 17:10:35 05-14-91 2394 <--> 2495
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: PENN AND TABMAN CANCELLED
hEY quit steeling my word.. "Arrrrgggghhhhh" oops Iused "-marks.
Msg #2432 Dated 17:14:05 05-14-91 2416 <--> 2439
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
I'm gladd
Wells didn't say Kissing a Frog.
Msg #2434 Dated 17:18:00 05-14-91 2409 <--> 2498
From: PETE BIRO
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: ZOMBIE
Zombie without a cloth could be marvelous... especially with an ARTISTE
like Michael Motion, Finn Jon (Jos Bema?) or a funny man, like Tamariz
or Gaeton!!! I would suggest the BLACK ART principal... See you in
Lausanne.
Msg #2435 Dated 17:19:53 05-14-91 2423 <--> 2447
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: KAMAR
I hope to see Letterman socially in two weeks and hopefully can find
out where he is coming from re: Kamar.
Msg #2438 Dated 17:27:36 05-14-91 2420 <--> 2554
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: LUNCH
The only short thing I'm known for is my temper, Marvin. Even my card
tricks are too long, and I usually use jumbo cards. As to the
centerpiece, it all depends on what would look best surrounded by
flowers. Don't worry about the seating - although the luncheon is full
to overflowing, Tabby and I have decided that, if necessary, we will
just have to stand in the hall. Looking forward to seeing you.
Msg #2439 Dated 17:32:04 05-14-91 2425 <--> 2440
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
That is one of the best purposes that good magician friends can serve.
They can take one aside afterward and say, "I think you should work on
your double lift a bit before you ever do it again..." I personally
always favor the constructive criticism a competent reviewer can
provide, but not everyone does.
Msg #2440 Dated 17:33:59 05-14-91 2427 <--> 2441
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
I agree. But there are ways in which the non-magical audience can
express their opinions: Walking out is a bad sign. Throwing tomatoes
is a bad sign. Standing ovations are a good sign. Returning to see
you again is a good sign.
Msg #2441 Dated 17:35:44 05-14-91 2432 <--> 2450
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
Me too! I don't know him all that well.
Msg #2442 Dated 17:36:51 05-14-91 2426 <--> 2452
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RDMAGIC
Exactly - no need for plain E in the program. Is the problem
completely solved from our end for ER and EA? Or do we still need
something fixed?
Msg #2445 Dated 17:54:33 05-14-91 2374 <--> 2446
From: JERRY BURTON
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
I agree that the art is damaged when people perform effects
YOU have created for your OWN use and have not published it for
that reason. It seems that it up to the magic community to
police these hoodlums, as well as educating the public in the
idea that magic is 'created' by some performers and stolen by
others.
Msg #2446 Dated 17:54:40 05-14-91 2421 <--> 2448
From: JERRY BURTON
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
If all they have been exposed to are bad magicians, how could
they think anything else ? Its not that they are dumb or thick
headed, quite the opposite. P&T's problem is real and the more
of us, that start to critically try to understand why magicians are
held in low-esteem, the quicker we can start to upgrade the
entire field.
.
For example, I personally hate the dove-pan and square circle.
Presenting these as 'Magic' IS an insult to the intelligence
of the audience. If I show the BOTTOM of a pan and NOT the top,
proceed to light a fire in the pan (God only knows why ?) and
then put out the flames with the lid and MAGICALLY open the pan
to show a dove - where could it possibly have come from ?
Could it have been in the lid ? Most people that see this
effect (except for maybe 6 year-olds) have absolutely no
problem figuring this out. This isn't magic, its boring.
.
If I show a square frame that is EMPTY and place it back onto
a tube and THEN show the tube empty to PROVE they are BOTH
empty - and then produce some stuff - what conclusion can any
reasonable person come to ?
.
Most people would not spend a dime to see a magician - have
you ever been to the fair and see the stuff that passes for
magic ? It's incredibly bad. TV has had some impact on the
general publics impression of magic, but many people believe
they are just camera tricks, and therefore don't take it
Msg #2447 Dated 18:00:05 05-14-91 2423 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: KAMAR
Single quotes are okay. But only barely.
Msg #2448 Dated 17:52:08 05-14-91 2421 <--> 2449
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
I think this (that audiences think magic is bad) because I come from a
theatrical background; I made my living for several years in New York
off Broadway theatre. In the years since then I have talked to several
hundred, perhaps thousands, of people in most areas of show business as
well as many people who frequent live performances...
...and most of them think magic is a joke, a relic. They think it
is hopelessly old fashioned, an art that stopped dead around 1930, and
one that has no artistic statement to make. Why do you think that
almost every time in the public press a good magician is described, the
reviewer starts by saying, "not your typical magician"? Because to the
reviewer the typical magician is bad or uninteresting. The only place
you find standard magic done well viable as a performance art is in Las
Vegas or similar venues, where much of the appeal is a nostalgic one;
it is hardly contemporary in the sense that popular music or dance or
(to a lesser degree) modern comedy and film are contemporary.
It gives me no great pleasure to say this. It gives me less pleasure
to point out that when someone like Jeff McBride opens out magic into
a theatrical experience, magicians criticize it because he does too
much "fooling around" before he gets to what they're interested in --
the tricks. Nearly anyone else in show business knows they have to
learn how to act, to move, to speak, to perform -- and even then they
realize that they have to hire others, professionals, to create and
produce materials and in many cases the complete acts for them.
Magicians, however, ignorant of the most elementary basics of theatre,
think they already know it all -- and then wonder why magic doesn't get
the respect they think it should.
Much of the above is generalization, and certainly exceptions can be
found. Magic, however, is little respected as a theatrical art, either
by people in the general area of show business or by audiences.
Finally -- we should remember that it wasn't always this way -- and
ask ourselves why...
Msg #2449 Dated 18:06:35 05-14-91 2446 <--> 2476
From: T A WATERS
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
You know, the funny thing is that in the original dove pan -- or
chafing dish -- it WAS deceptive; the lid was rather thin, and a
roundish load chamber under it sank into a spring-loaded section of the
table, so the lid seemed innocent. Too complicated for the magic
dealers to sell, however -- even if the one fooled people and the other
one doesn't. *sigh*
Msg #2450 Dated 18:29:05 05-14-91 2439 <--> 2451
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
I don't know if I mentioned it, but we have a group down here
in Orange County, that meet once a month to do just that. Have
you ever worked up what you thought was a dynamite effect, and
when presented it just didn't work. Having critical friends
can be a great advantage. Regarding the competent reviewer
aspect - is there such a thing ?
.
I go along with T.A. Waters comment concerning getting to know
the bias of a reviewer and then making my own allowances. WeŠall can agree that a competent reviewer is one that likes
every thing we do, an incompetent one thinks we stink. Such
is human nature.
.
Another subject - just hit the BBS with 8 replies and downloaded
about 20 messages - total time on-line 2 min 20+ seconds.
Msg #2451 Dated 18:29:17 05-14-91 2440 <--> 2466
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
Returning with their friends is even better. When that happens
you know you are doing something right.
Msg #2452 Dated 18:29:23 05-14-91 2442 <--> 2468
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RDMAGIC
As you may be able to tell, I've hit the BBS at least 3 times
today with replies I generated on-line - WHILE viewing the
message I want to respond to. It seems to be working quite
well. The key was not trying to enter E type messages as they
don't have the colon prompt, and that was hanging me up.
Msg #2454 Dated 19:05:12 05-14-91 -> 2611
From: STEVE BRYANT
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURE
Pete,
Yes, please keep us updated on the lecture. Will try
to make it if possible, but, like Bill Wells, I am
often stuck at a kid's soccer game or whatever. Just
dug out an ancient set of notes from the first time I
saw you lecture, in L.A. (PETE BIRO LECTURE NO. 1). We
did the funkenring electric cord cut (from those notes)
one year in one of our Halloween ghost shows. Had
forgotten the source at the time, but thanks.
* *
Coincidentally, I was reviewing the Ascanio spread
issue of Epilogue tonight and ran across the carefully
worded attack on you, of sorts, for apparently stealing
Wesley James' cannibal cards routine along with Matt
Corin. Carefully worded, because it never actually
accuses you of anything, just makes a big point of
presenting the trick along with lines such as, "Biro
had nothing to do with any aspect of the development of
the trick." Did you ever get to reply in print? (Not
that, actually, there was any concrete aspersion to
reply to.)
* *
Haven't been up to Illusions in quite a while, although
was happy to see Chris Kenner at the Vegas seminar.
How about a review of what is going on? If Dan is
performing, insist that he show you his balloon animal
alligator routine. With ALL the bits. Very very funny
routine.
-- Steve
Msg #2455 Dated 19:23:45 05-14-91 2430 <-
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ELSMLEY COUNT
Okay...okay....okay.
Msg #2458 Dated 19:29:53 05-14-91 2193 <--> 2470
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BLACK & TELLER
Maybe his involvement slowly is terminating his involvement. Notice
this time he's a fictional magician? (Not that he was non-fictional in
WGMFTMC).
Msg #2460 Dated 19:33:50 05-14-91 2223 <-
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: GENII SUBSCRIPTION
You're welcome! Glad to hear May will be here soon (so to speak). I
read in "The Genii Speaks" that Bill and Irene are going to be around
here at the P.C.A.M., hope they enjoy themselves! The april issue is
great, but it'll take me about two weeks to get ready for Eugene Burger
issue. May ought to be good!
Msg #2461 Dated 19:37:13 05-14-91 2240 <-
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAC ADVICE
That sounds like one SAM i'd like to join!
No moola though....
Msg #2462 Dated 19:49:32 05-14-91 -> 2523
From: BURT CARPENTER
To: JEFF BUSBY
Re: OLD FRIENDS
The other day I was reading your ad for the Erdnase book and saw a
quote from John Cannon of Aladdin Books. That is a shop I've been
meaning to stop by for several years. As it is about an hour to hour
and a half drive from my home it has been easy for me to procrastinate.
I was in Orange County today and because of the quote I reminded
myself that I should stop in. I was surprised to recognize the owner!
John and I worked together at Knott's Berry Farm for about a year back
in 1975-76. I hadn't placed the name until I saw him. I know you didn't
mean to but thanks for jogging my memory to stop in.
Msg #2464 Dated 19:51:20 05-14-91 -> 2573
From: BURT CARPENTER
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: YER HEEEE'RE
Welcome to smogville. If you drive to Las Vegas and plan to take I-10
to I-15 you must pass right by the place I work. I'm here 9am-? you're
welcome to stop in. Give me a call and I'll give you directions if you
want to stop. On friday I have to be in court (business, no I'm not in
trouble)in the morning, but plan to get free for the MAGIC! lunch. I
may get there a little late so hold my seat if possible. I plan to take
therest of the day off after lunch so maybe we can spend some time.
Msg #2465 Dated 19:52:18 05-14-91 -> 2486
From: BURT CARPENTER
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: HELP YOU
What communications software are you using? I'm sure someone here could
help advise you how to upload/download files. I'm sure all would
appreciate the insights you could give if you had the ability to
compose off-line and then upload.
Msg #2466 Dated 19:58:28 05-14-91 2450 <--> 2467
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
A competent reviewer would be one who would have the respect of the
performers he or she reviewed; who did not posture in order to serve
his or her own ego; and who offered valid, constructive criticism.
Alas, if you think a good magician is hard to find, a good reviewer is
even harder!
Sounds like RDMAGIC is beginning to perform incredibly! Have you
uploaded the latest beta test version with the reply feature yet? Or
is it still in Alpha test?
Msg #2467 Dated 20:01:13 05-14-91 2451 <--> 2493
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
Granted! Being recommended by someone who has seen your work is the
highest compliment.
Msg #2468 Dated 20:02:21 05-14-91 2452 <--> 2524
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RDMAGIC
Replies you generated ON-LINE?
Msg #2470 Dated 20:09:55 05-14-91 2458 <--> 2738
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: BLACK & TELLER
You mean that in another couple of shows he might be portrayed as a
poor actor playing the role of a terrible magician?
Msg #2472 Dated 20:22:26 05-14-91 -> 2475
From: BURT CARPENTER
To: RICHARD HART (X)
Re: PREMONITION
I'm getting a vague impression..... I see a man dressed in dark
clothes.....a uniform......brown or dark blue, no definitely
brown.....he's driving.....I see his vehicle-it's a large van.....now
stopping. I also see a calender but can't quite make out the date it's
definitely May, possibly the 14th or 15th..... The man is getting
clearer now... he has an envelope--No it's a package...He is walking
very fast, as if to rid himself of the parcel....He's going
towards..YOUR DOOR!..... The vision fades. <> Thais mentalism
stuff is exhausting.
Msg #2475 Dated 22:53:46 05-14-91 2472 <--> 2592
From: RICHARD HART
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: PREMONITION
Now if you can tell me WHERE I found the package, you'll make a
believer outta me! Thanks, Burt. See you on Friday!
Msg #2476 Dated 23:07:38 05-14-91 2448 <--> 2477
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
I actually agree with you. There's a lot of work to be done in both
educating the public, as well as coming up with fresh presentations and
personas. Doesn't it all come down to the fact that a lot of people
just don't like to be fooled?
What you're saying is that the art is already so suspect in people's
eyes, that all they need to see is one bad magician and it pushes
their opinion about magic over the cliff. This I don't really believe.
Short of viewing a magcian on a talk show, most people seek out the
magic they see, indicating a pre-existing interest. And I'm sure in
the heyday of magic in this century there was the same percentage of
good, bad and middling magi -- the bell curve.
It's a shame that magic is not a higher profile art. That the magician
is, let's admit it, generally an object or scorn and derision. Two of
the most successful magi of our day, Penn & Teller, in part make thei
living my exploiting this feeling.
Is there anything to do?
Msg #2477 Dated 23:12:31 05-14-91 2446 <--> 2478
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
I don't think it's the dove pan or square-circle that's the problem.
At all. It's all the presentation. People don't not like magic
because they can figure it out -- they don't like it because they feel
the magician condescends, is trying to put something over on them, is
somehow positioning himself as superior.
People haven't lost the art of performing good magic, they've lost the
art of getting people to enjoy being fooled. Think about it.
Msg #2478 Dated 23:28:29 05-14-91 2476 <--> 2480
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
If I could add 1 1/2 cents worth I have found
through numerous acquaintance that the first
two magicians someone encounters can have a
profound outlook on how they see magic. I have
had to literally bribe people into the castle
kicking and screaming because of their outlook
on magicians. One bad shot and it seems they
will change the cannel or go to the bar anytime
a magician comes on UNTIL they see that "catch"
act. The one that knocks 'em dead and they
become converted.
Msg #2480 Dated 23:53:03 05-14-91 2476 <--> 2482
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
No -- I don't think magic is so suspect that one bad magician will push
people's judgement of the art over the cliff; I think most people
consider magic to ALREADY BE at the bottom of the cliff. Whenever
people see a good magician they're surprised -- because their
assumption is that he or she wouldn't be.
Msg #2482 Dated 0:26:33 05-15-91 2478 <--> 2483
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
There's gotta be a _reason_ people are less accepting of magicians. I
really do believe that if there were more of a demand from the public,
there would more more, better magi.
Msg #2483 Dated 0:27:40 05-15-91 2480 <--> 2484
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
But WHY, T A? What about our times make people less favorably disposed
to being fooled? And I really think the answer has more to do with the
audience and our times than with bad magicians.
Msg #2484 Dated 8:10:02 05-15-91 2345 <--> 2485
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
According to an article I read recently, appropriating material from
another performer may now be referred to as "artistic shoplifting."
Msg #2485 Dated 9:44:21 05-15-91 2484 <--> 2489
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
And where did you read this marvelous piece of modern moral
literature...the San Quentin Gazette????!!!
Msg #2486 Dated 9:53:55 05-15-91 2465 <-
From: MICHAEL AMMAR
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: HELP YOU
Hi Burt! Our ever efficient Sysop is already on the job! (opps...
just noticed the abundance of !! marks....)
Msg #2488 Dated 10:01:28 05-15-91 -> 2614
From: MICHAEL AMMAR
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: ZOMBIE
Dear Tommy: You were so right to point out that only in particular
interpretations of the Zombie would you not anticipate it's movement.
In other renditions, different motives for the float would set up
different results. Thank you so much for reminding me how important it
is for me to stay away from such statements as "Always" and "Never."
Whenever I take such a stand, someone taps me on the shoulder, or
something, and says, `Excuse me, but.....' On one hand, I'm trying to
avoid this, but on the other, I'm starting to enjoy the taste of my own
foot in my mouth...
Pete Biro suggested using no cloth at all. Another good thought!
I wouldn't catagorically call the cloth a drawback, as it can actually
bring mystery, personality, suspense, etc... to the effect. Then
Arnaud dropped the line about black art. A local magician, Don Drake,
has built a black art device that looks like real magic. It seems
there is a rather new, non-nape felt that completely absorbes all
light, making black art possible from just a couple of feet away!
If your backdrop were make of this, as well as your gimmick, you
could begin with the standard version with the cloth, and then conclude
with a segment using NO cloth against this backdrop. You could probably
get better movement with this type of gimmick than with any thread
hookup.
Msg #2489 Dated 10:29:15 05-15-91 2485 <--> 2521
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: YOUR QUESTION
Not exactly.
Msg #2490 Dated 10:37:34 05-15-91 2412 <--> 2500
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VISIT
Posing as CIA might work although you could probably do as well
posing as politicians around here. That way you could stay in
the rear of the truck and wave while you smile. Howsomever, you
should remember to smile facing the rear of the truck, otherwise
you will get lots of bugs in your teeth.
Msg #2491 Dated 10:38:01 05-15-91 2413 <--> 2501
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC! AT IBM
Gadzooks! That was jest a little bity line. Why don't you write
an article on MAGIC! for the LR. I am sure Howard would be happy
to publish it. Maybe we could run a hardcopy of one of the
digitized photos.
Msg #2492 Dated 10:38:23 05-15-91 2414 <--> 2502
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ALSO TO FROG AND COUNT ZA
Magic is alive and well in Bluffton only insofar as the
headquarters office and publishing of the LR is concerned. The
"locals" I was referring to were normal people. I don't know of
any magicians that live in Bluffton. You ain't the only one who
wishes I could make the lunch in L.A. on Friday. You guys need
to take a laptop along and post a number. Any callers could go
into chat mode with the attendees! Tell the tabber "Hello"!
Msg #2493 Dated 10:38:50 05-15-91 2416 <--> 2496
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
You don't mean to tell me your doctorate is in Biology? If it
isn't then you had a heavy dose of premed or were a bio freak.
While my sheepskin says Biology, I was actually a Developmental
Physiologist so don't try to snow me with developmental stuff on
tads. I used to impact eye and limb buds on the little devils.
I refuse to repeat my dissertation title here. So how does a
Biologist end up running a board like this? Too bad you aren't a
crawdad so that we could talk about how well you display Serial
Homology.
ps - how the hell else could they develop?
Msg #2495 Dated 10:39:52 05-15-91 2431 <--> 2562
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PENN AND TABMAN CANCELLED
Your word????
I will have you know that I steal only from the best.
"Arrrrgggghhhhhh" is Charlie Brown's favorite response to Lucy!
(Besides your version is the 4-4-5 version while I originated the
4-4-6 version which makes it totally new and different...thats
numbers of r's , g's, and h's).
Now the real question is: Should Abbott's address be placed
within quotation marks?
Msg #2496 Dated 10:40:22 05-15-91 2432 <--> 2503
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC REVIEW
How could I have said "Kissing a Frog"
Not only can't you kid them...they don't have lips!
Msg #2498 Dated 10:41:18 05-15-91 2434 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ZOMBIE
Guys! Zombie without the cloth ain't zombie! If you are gonna
to that...why restrict yourself to the Zombie gaffus! Aren't you
now doing the Okito Floating Ball or a similar effect that
achieves the floating effect by a different method that the cloth
prevents being used? Shouldn't we all be releasing our minds
from the use of a specific gimmick and thinking effect and how
best to achieve that effect?
--- END OF MAGIC-25 ---