MAGIC! - 32
The following was compiled from the magician's message section of
MAGIC!(tm). MAGIC! is an electronic communications system for
magicians. It may be accessed from any personal computer with a
modem by dialing US 818-896-7450. Access is free, except for
normal telephone company charges. New registrants must leave a
comment with their name, address, phone number and a brief resume
of their magic background to be considered for membership. The
material herein should be treated as confidentially as other
magic information. Copyright 1991 by MAGIC!, All rights reserved.
Msg #5500 Dated 8:17:37 06-11-91 5474 <--> 5501
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The late Francis Carlyle used to get people up at a lecture and ask
them to show him how they palmed a card.
.
Sadly they were totally unable to do so, became extremely embarassed
and upset.
.
I have found that at a lecture the Majority of the group are somewhat
Sheep, just following along. They love to see a variation on the way
you change the latch on a dove pan. Or do something they can put into
thier Kid show the next day using an old prop they already own.
.
Marconick was the perfect lecturer. He had a million clever ways to
do things with silk scarves, ropes, jumbo cards and tape. Nothing you
couldn't put together and do with one or two tries.
.
The real guys (top pro's) almost don't do anything off the dealer's
shelves. When Lance Burton started out as a pro (he had won the IBM
Gold Medal) his act was ALL DEALER STUFF.
I remember telling him (in print and one on one) that if he was to
go to the FISM he would get killed, as they shun acts with standard
props.
.
Fortunately he figured it out, listened, changed and improved a ton,
and the rest is history....
Msg #5501 Dated 8:18:02 06-11-91 5474 <--> 5507
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
One other answer to #5474. Many flock out to lectures, etc. to get
out of the house. The wife the kids the dog... are bugging them. And
they are tired of watching endless TV sitcoms with living rooms
filled with smart-assed, rude kids popping off!
Msg #5502 Dated 8:18:10 06-11-91 5477 <--> 5504
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: SECTIONS II
It is a challenge to write well online?
Msg #5503 Dated 8:18:15 06-11-91 5479 <--> 5548
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
I don't think anything can be "TOO PERFECT" -- after all, aren't we
supposed to be able to do the impossible?
.
After all (did I say that twice?) as my old boss, The Great Francisco
used to say, "Prestidigitation is the art of taking the impossible,
adding to it a few possibilities and doing something that can't be
done!"
Msg #5504 Dated 8:18:25 06-11-91 5488 <--> 5973
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: SECTIONS II
Yeah, and you can use the paper on the bottom of your birdcages when
finished reading. But there is NO OTHER USE for MAGIC!
Msg #5505 Dated 8:29:19 06-11-91 5498 <--> 5543
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC2DB
I often wonder whether Anneman would have liked MAGIC! or not. If only
we could have had him around here! It would have been a real gas...
Msg #5507 Dated 9:15:22 06-11-91 5500 <--> 5511
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I was at a lecture not too long ago...the lecturer was asked "I don't
understand...how did you 'Double-Cut' a card to the top?"
The lecturer was visibly shaken by the question...after all, this was
an IBM Ring Lecture...everyone there was supposedly a magician. The
lecturer, not wanting to offend, politely answered the question and
demonstrated a multitude of times. This question obviously colored his
opinion of his audience as the remainder of the lecture was done in a
noticeably more "primary" color.
Too bad for everyone else.
'Wayne.
Msg #5509 Dated 10:03:08 06-11-91
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC-30
The thirtieth set of MAGIC! messages - #4500 (June 2, 1991)
to #4998 (June 6, 1991) - has been transferred to a downloadable
file. The file is named MAGIC-30.TXT. This means that you can
now go to the file area, download this file, and read the thir-
tieth volume of messages off-line. For those who know how to
use the PKUNZIP system for uncompressing files, there is a
compressed version of this same file. It is called MAGIC-30.ZIP
and is less than 1/2 the size of the full-text version.
Not only will transferring these messages to a file make it easier
for you to obtain a complete set of them, but it will make the
search for new messages easier and faster.
Msg #5511 Dated 10:46:26 06-11-91 5507 <--> 5542
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I once did a lecture and a lead in to a trick was the Old ShoeLace
false know. All o f a sudden a handful yelled, "Hey how do you do the
false knot?" I had to spend 20 minutes teaching it... Arrgghh...
Msg #5521 Dated 15:26:17 06-11-91 -> 5557
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FAX
Got the faxbak and yup will bring orig to Tabland to dupe. Adios for
now, oh,having comuter screen blanking on and off troubles. I hope it
is just the heat and my fan will fix. Later ...
Msg #5523 Dated 15:51:36 06-11-91 -> 5558
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: NICE PEOPLE
Just got a letter from Kent Cummins. Remember those card style erasers
I was looking for? Well, they were in the envelope along with a card
designed pencil sharpener and a lighter with a card design on it!
And I'd asked him to make sure he sent me a bill... so there was one in
the envelope... Serial number E 53831804 G. Aaarrrggghhh!
P.S. - How am I ever gonna convince him that that was the exact serial
number I'd written on a piece of paper baked into a loaf of sourdough
bread? My son took it to school for lunch today by mistake!
P.P.S. - Thanks, Kent! Yes, lunch anytime you are here!
Msg #5524 Dated 16:10:30 06-11-91 5100 <--> 5551
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: A PHYSICS LESSON...
Wayne stopped by my booth with Jonnathan, and he (Jonnathan) was nice
enough to let my wife have her picture taken with him. But her
camera was stolen, sooo no pix, plus no pictures of me supervising!
the setting up of the booth. Or the tearing down.
Msg #5525 Dated 16:15:00 06-11-91 5121 <-
From: MARVIN STERN
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: CASTLE LUNCH
Well, I'll see you this Friday, but will be sitting at a different
table, with competitors.
Msg #5526 Dated 16:17:07 06-11-91 5286 <--> 5552
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: SHOWBIZ EXPO
Camcorder? I thought no swearing on MAGIC. You sure didn't stick
around long. I got the idea you used the show as an excuse to get out
of the house.
Msg #5527 Dated 16:18:57 06-11-91 5289 <--> 5534
From: MARVIN STERN
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: SHOWBIX EXPO
One the Syslop starts charging a subscription fee, maybe he'll lend you
the money.
Msg #5529 Dated 16:20:11 06-11-91 5290 <--> 5531
From: MARVIN STERN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: EXPO
Perhaps you saw my message to David, but my wife's camera was stolen,
so the pix of her w/Winters went bye-bye. That's what she's upset
about.
Next year's show is in Long Beach.
Msg #5531 Dated 16:23:34 06-11-91 5529 <-
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: EXPO
Sorry to hear that, Marvin. Maybe I can drag him down to Long Beach
next year.
'W.
Msg #5532 Dated 16:24:17 06-11-91 5154 <--> 5561
From: MARVIN STERN
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
Let me know what you find out about the UK, as I'll be in London
starting July 5.
Are't you having anymore work done on your car? Haven't seen you down
at the beach, walking with the sand pushing up through your toes and
the wind blowing in you hair. Gee, getting to sound like those other
writters on here.
I wonder, do I need the - / or whatever it was?
Msg #5533 Dated 16:32:04 06-11-91 -> 5553
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: SHIRT
Let me see-- I have a vision-- the cirle on Nathan's shirt is not round-
Msg #5534 Dated 17:20:57 06-11-91 5527 <--> 5536
From: PETE BIRO
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: SHOWBIX EXPO
Syslop? Slop?
Msg #5536 Dated 17:49:29 06-11-91 5534 <--> 5603
From: MARVIN STERN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOWBIX EXPO
It must have been line-noise.
Msg #5537 Dated 18:06:16 06-11-91 -> 5559
From: BURT CARPENTER
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: THANX
Michael, Sorry it has taken me so long to get this posted, but I want
to again thank you for your participation in the special booksale. It
was good to see you and Hannah again. Perhaps next time it will be in
less hectic circumstances.
Msg #5542 Dated 19:01:37 06-11-91 5472 <--> 5544
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Clarification: of course Stan (or anyone else) has the right to mention
an effect, mine or otherwise. It's the _explaining_ of the method that
was out of bounds. Why is this distinction difficult to grasp? The
issue has nothing to do with freedom of speech, just as
constitutionally protected freedom of press does not permit
plagiarism...
Msg #5543 Dated 19:04:04 06-11-91 5505 <--> 5555
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC2DB
Proper spelling is Annemann - he added the fourth N rather early on.
Your choice of imagery in this comment is rather bizarre; intentional?
Msg #5544 Dated 19:05:14 06-11-91 5507 <--> 5576
From: MAX MAVEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The comment "Too bad for everyone else" suggests that this one guy was
the only person there who didn't know what a Double Undercut was, thus
forcing the lecturer to work to a lower standard than that of the rest
of the audience. Do you really think so? That does not correspond to
the hundred-plus club lectures I've done...
Msg #5548 Dated 19:36:23 06-11-91 5480 <--> 5549
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
I agree with a previously-noted observation -- people put the vanishing
train car off to a "magician's trick." It's the close-up stuff that
REALLY kills them.
Msg #5549 Dated 19:37:09 06-11-91 5481 <--> 5550
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Interesting idea. Thanks.
Msg #5550 Dated 19:37:59 06-11-91 5495 <--> 5560
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Could you give me more insight as to how Koran linked the magi's
persona with the mentalist's?
Msg #5551 Dated 20:25:16 06-11-91 5524 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: A PHYSICS LESSON...
Oh, yetchk! I assume you are already on the phone to the insurance
people about the camera. I'm glad you got to meet Jonnathan - Wayne
introduced him at the Friday lunch that you missed.
Msg #5552 Dated 20:28:09 06-11-91 5526 <--> 5566
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: SHOWBIZ EXPO
No, actually Ron and I both wanted to stay. But Jonathan Pendragon was
lecturing at the Castle and we wanted to get over there. It was a
great lecture. I've started my write-up for MAGIC! but a lot has been
going on around here and it will have to be later in the week.
Msg #5553 Dated 20:33:30 06-11-91 5533 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: SHIRT
You need glasses.
Msg #5555 Dated 20:38:23 06-11-91 5543 <--> 5582
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: MAGIC2DB
I was honoring Pete's spelling. There is an old story about a famous
man who had a guest of honor at a dinner party. When the guest picked
up the wrong fork, everyone was about to correct him until the host
picked up the same fork.
As to the other, yes, I'm afraid it was intentional. Sometimes I have
a rather outre sense of humor.
Msg #5557 Dated 21:09:18 06-11-91 5521 <--> 5568
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: FAX
Call the ice man and have him drop a 500lb block by. Put your monitor
on the ice and shave some off for your gimlet. Only problem is after
2 gims the screen blinking will interfere with the shaving of ice.
Msg #5558 Dated 21:09:24 06-11-91 5523 <--> 5571
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NICE PEOPLE
Kent is a super guy and owes me lunch in Austin. I plan on going down
there for his annual auction next year. He said I could sleep in the
barn.
Msg #5559 Dated 21:09:29 06-11-91 5537 <--> 5569
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: THANX
Hey Burtster, where you been lately. I've missed seeing you on the
system. Will call ina few days to check on you.
Msg #5560 Dated 21:09:34 06-11-91 5548 <--> 5564
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Everybody around this part of the woods is still talking about the
"Mind Games" effect.
Msg #5561 Dated 21:09:40 06-11-91 5532 <--> 5562
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
You are waxing rather poetic.
Msg #5562 Dated 21:09:45 06-11-91 5532 <--> 5570
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
Thanks for the thought the other day. We're working onit. xxx
Msg #5563 Dated 21:18:00 06-11-91 -> 5573
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: YOIKS....
I just noted I have logged on 1,000 times. Garrgggghhhh.... Add up
Tabman and a few others and Ma Bell (whoever she is) can eat good this
year!
Msg #5564 Dated 21:18:54 06-11-91 5548 <--> 5565
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Amazingly, for many moons, I have always said that close up magic had
a far greater place on television than any other form. I can't
believe that it hasn't been sold properly to the producers.
Msg #5565 Dated 21:18:59 06-11-91 5550 <--> 5583
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
No. Koran was just Koran. He was the same when ever he performed, no
matter what he was doing. Give me your mailing address and I will
send youa copy of his notes. I have so many things in my brain at
this time, say, "send Koran notes to: (so I don't forget what it is
I am to do.)
Msg #5566 Dated 21:19:07 06-11-91 5552 <--> 5574
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: SHOWBIZ EXPO
Pendragon makes a lot of sense in latest INSIDE MAGIC.
Msg #5568 Dated 21:19:16 06-11-91 5557 <--> 5578
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FAX
I have been using pieces of Watermelon.
You won't believe what I did. I was boiling water in the teapot to
make some Iced Tea. I got going online and writing some pay material
and suddenly I smelled something.
Have you ever seen the bottom of a teakettle melted down and running
around the bottom of the stove element? You want a full scale, all
out AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
You got it..... Argh*#&$&*^#&@^
Msg #5569 Dated 21:19:27 06-11-91 5559 <--> 5572
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: THANX
Where have YOU BEEN? I know your modem doesn't like David's new one.
Msg #5570 Dated 21:19:31 06-11-91 5562 <--> 5622
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
What is the Mexico part of this thread about?
Msg #5571 Dated 21:24:04 06-11-91 5558 <--> 5623
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: NICE PEOPLE
Hmmmm..... He owes you lunch, I owe him lunch, and I think I once
bought you lunch... aren't we all even?
Nah. Guess we are all odd.
Msg #5572 Dated 21:25:10 06-11-91 5559 <--> 5621
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: THANX
Burt checked in by voice phone today. He's OK, but been moving and
forgot which box he put his computer in. He said he'll be back on-line
in a couple of days, soon as he finds it.
Msg #5573 Dated 21:26:56 06-11-91 5563 <--> 5625
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YOIKS....
I passed 2,500 logons sometime yesterday. I believe Tabman is over
1,700.
Msg #5574 Dated 21:27:36 06-11-91 5566 <--> 5585
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOWBIZ EXPO
Sorta. But Mark Wilson brought up some points at the lecture. I'm
working on posting my notes, but got other things on my brain right
now.
Msg #5576 Dated 21:36:04 06-11-91 5544 <--> 5581
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Perhaps not EVERYONE else, Max. My sense of the room was that 90% of
the attendees were embarrassed by the double undercut question.
That's a frustrating element of lectures in general...even those at the
Magic Castle. So many folks from so many magical backgrounds with so
many different levels of expertise and there for so many different
reasons. For my own taste, I would always rather that the lecture be
beyond my level of expertise rather than below it. I'll ask a question
if I think there are others who also may not understand...but I'd
rather be challenged by a lecturer. I'll go look up any needed
reference material after the lecture, as required.
Regarding the lecture I mentioned...it seems to me that anyone who
doesn't even know what a double undercut is has no business being a
full-fledged member of a national magical organization. Okay, call me
an elitist.
'Wayne.
Msg #5578 Dated 21:59:38 06-11-91 5568 <--> 5608
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: FAX
Gee, Pete...
If I had known you were so handy at the stove, I would've sent you my
"magno-crazed" chop cup to make tea in!
'W.
Msg #5580 Dated 22:07:14 06-11-91 -> 5640
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
We ordered a new stove a couple of weeks ago - one with "sealed"
burners. They delivered it dented and scratched and we are waiting for
the replacement.
Meanwhile, Nathan recently asked, "Does our house have a kitchen?"
"Yes," we both said, "That's the room with the microwave in it."
"Oh," he said.
Msg #5581 Dated 22:32:48 06-11-91 5576 <--> 5594
From: MAX MAVEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
We are in complete agreement concerning standards of membership for
magic organizations.
Msg #5582 Dated 22:33:58 06-11-91 5555 <-
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC2DB
Glad to know it was intentional. Regarding your dinner party story,
it's sort of a streamlined version of the creation of Castilion (sp?)
Spanish.
Msg #5583 Dated 22:38:11 06-11-91 5564 <--> 5598
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Despite the fact that television is best applied as an intimate medium,
TV producers generally think in terms of spectacle. To my knowledge,
the only all-close-up specials ever presented on any network TV have
been several that I instigated in Japan. Does anyone know of others?
Msg #5585 Dated 23:03:46 06-11-91 5574 <--> 5589
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: SHOWBIZ EXPO
Crap - that must have been an unscheduled lecture. Could you post
any such events in the future. My newsletter didn't show anything
until the Burger lecture the 30th. Sorry I missed it.
Msg #5586 Dated 23:03:51 06-11-91 -> 5592
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: ENTER TEST
I got locked up on the Private ? when I attempted to upload an
automatic Enter. Can you put a : in the prompt ?
The first part of theis msg was automatic, the text is manually
entered, AFTER having to reset my entire system and get back into
PCPLUS - to coin a phrase aaaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh ! (some famous guy
said that once, or twice, or thrice, or ....).
Please advise on the colon so I can get this this finished.
Msg #5587 Dated 23:03:27 06-11-91
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: DINNER TABLE STORIES
Castilia? Or the old city of Castellon (certainly not the "new" city,
Castellon de la Plana)? I'm not familiar with that version of the
tale, but I suspect that it may have descended from a possible earlier version
written down by the Amoraim in Babylonia between 400 and 500 CE.
Msg #5589 Dated 23:21:58 06-11-91 5585 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: SHOWBIZ EXPO
Actually, it WAS posted here about a month before - too far in advance,
I realized too late.
Msg #5591 Dated 23:25:29 06-11-91 5456 <--> 5593
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NEW THREAD
Yeah -- NPR also did a terrific version of the STAR WARS trilogy some
years ago; and CANTICLE FOR LIEBOWITZ, etc. The Flanders stuff is
pretty good, so if you get the first tapes you will be hooked.
Msg #5592 Dated 23:29:59 06-11-91 5586 <--> 5610
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: ENTER TEST
The proper punctuation mark [:] should now appear in the "Private"
prompt in both Expert and Non-Expert mode.
Msg #5593 Dated 23:32:23 06-11-91 5591 <--> 5611
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: NEW THREAD
Interesting! Didn't know about the Star Wars one. Do have a recording
of some of the British version of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
I believe there were two versions. Canticle For Liebowitz has been one
of my favorite books since childhood. The ZBS stuff is incredible -
the stories sometimes wander around a lot, but the sound layering
always reminds me of working on an Amiga - multi-tasking.
Msg #5594 Dated 23:28:34 06-11-91 5464 <--> 5595
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I couldn't disagree more. You seem to think that people's behavior
can't be changed. Perhaps human nature can't; but what's acceptable in
an art form certainly can be influenced. If magicians were to realize
that doing items others are doing puts them several steps down the
ladder in terms of recognition and respect, they might begin to change.
Mind you, this doesn't mean the magician has to be a creator; he or
she can go to the tens of thousands of effects sitting in books and not
being performed by anyone.
If I see someone else doing an effect and do it myself, one of two
things will happen; I will do it better -- in which case I have gained
by taking something someone else was inspired to do, not by my own
efforts, and thus there's little to be proud of -- or I will do it
worse, in which case I've sold my soul for nothing.
There is no excuse whatever, in my mind, for doing effects others are
doing, usually in the same way. I sometimes think if I hear one more
performer do the Anderson newspaper tear with the patter popularized by
Henning I will commit homicide. That sort of thing is not performance
at all -- it is demonstration, more suited to a dealer's booth than the
stage. Anyone can demonstrate an effect; it is no accomplishment of
any value whatever.
Msg #5595 Dated 23:37:02 06-11-91 5474 <--> 5596
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I will only suggest that what people say and what they do are not
always the same thing.
Msg #5596 Dated 23:37:32 06-11-91 5496 <--> 5597
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I used to be able to sit in Tannen's back in the 60's of a Monday morn
and figure out who'd been on Sullivan Sunday night by what people came
in to buy.
In 1934 David Bamberg came to NYC and did a trick that had been lying
idle on dealer's shelves for decades, the Colored Sands effect; next
week every dealer in town sold old. Forty years go by, it is forgotten
again -- Henning does it on his first special; the next week all the
dealers (who still carry it) sell out of it.
Sometimes the way magic progresses brings a tear to my eye...
Msg #5597 Dated 23:42:34 06-11-91 5576 <--> 5609
From: T A WATERS
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
One time Shaxon was lecturing at the Castle; at one point he held up a
prop and said "This is just your standard Add-a-No Pad" and pulled the
string to demo its operation. Many in the audience went "Oooh" and a
look of terror leapt into Shaxon's eyes; I am sure he was thinking that
he'd made a mistake and was inadvertently lecturing to laypersons.
Msg #5598 Dated 23:45:49 06-11-91 5462 <--> 5599
From: T A WATERS
To: RICHARD HART (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Certainly the Mindgame was the most talked about item on DC's show --
but do you think they perceived it as mentalism? That someone on a
pretaped show was affecting their minds? I'd tend to think they were
intrigued by the fact that it worked and they didn't know how, but I
think the mentalism aspect was minimal.
Msg #5599 Dated 23:48:06 06-11-91 5463 <--> 5600
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
A related point is that a lot of performers drift back and forth
between mentalism and mental magic, never even knowing there's a
difference -- but the effect on the audience is one of inconsistency;
the kind of person who could tell you that you're unhappy with the new
job and such is not going to be the same person who tells you you're
thinking of the Queen of Diamonds.
Msg #5600 Dated 23:53:21 06-11-91 5497 <--> 5601
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
And they ain't telling.
Msg #5601 Dated 23:53:51 06-11-91 5503 <--> 5602
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
I think the "Too Perfect" theory might have more relevance to supposed
demonstrations of skill. When I was but a tad in the USAF I did a
gambling demo; at the time I didn't know diddly about it, so I did a
dice stack and some flourish cuts before demoing second dealing with A
Svengali deck and stacking with the Gambler's Rehearsal from Tarbell
Six. Point is, I don't think the last two effects would've worked
nearly as well if I had done them cold -- but seeing demos of obvious
skill gave them the mental direction that the other stuff was skill as
well.
Msg #5602 Dated 23:57:18 06-11-91 5388 <--> 5604
From: DOUGLAS LARSON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Stew was my cousin that fell into aunties cook pot ... he died quickly.
Mat was his brother that didn't have any ... forget it
Msg #5603 Dated 0:01:49 06-12-91 5527 <-
From: T A WATERS
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: SHOWBIX EXPO
Gee, if there's that much money in it, mebbe I will start my own BBS.
Msg #5604 Dated 0:08:44 06-12-91 5598 <--> 5605
From: RICHARD HART
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Let me go back and replay the tape. I want to check David's patter for
the Mindgame before I make my reply.
Msg #5605 Dated 0:19:52 06-12-91 5602 <--> 5606
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DOUGLAS LARSON (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Sorry to hear about your cousins. Did Auntie serve the stew anyway?
Msg #5606 Dated 0:24:22 06-12-91 5598 <--> 5607
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
I agree.
Msg #5607 Dated 0:24:48 06-12-91 5599 <--> 5613
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Do you think mental magic is a viable form? Who's an excellent
practitioner? (I'm assuming that by "mental magic" you mean mentalism
effects presented by a magician.)
Msg #5608 Dated 0:29:37 06-12-91 5568 <--> 5639
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: FAX
How'd you melt the bottom of a teakettle? A METAL kettle? What the
hay kind of STOVE are you using?
Msg #5609 Dated 0:32:20 06-12-91 5594 <--> 5612
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I was not making a value judgement that CAN be disagreed with -- merely
reporting the state of things as I see them...
Msg #5610 Dated 0:34:22 06-12-91 5592 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ENTER TEST
Not to mention improper puncutation marks. We know what they are.
Msg #5611 Dated 0:35:18 06-12-91 5593 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NEW THREAD
What else did Walter Miller write? Somewhere I heard he was doing a
sequel to "Canticle..." but for all I know he's not alive and it's a
totally false rumor...
s
Msg #5612 Dated 0:36:12 06-12-91 5597 <--> 5615
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I'm not denying the legitimacy of yours and Wayne's feelings, and I'm
not even saying you're really wrong, either. But I ask you to harken
back to when you were a little kid, getting into this, and how older,
more experienced magicians were a little scary, and asking questions
was terrifying, and showing ignorance was too frightening... Don't you
think you guys should leave a little room for a little more tolerance
for the "little people?"
Msg #5615 Dated 2:13:03 06-12-91 5581 <--> 5616
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I'm glad to hear that, Max.
Do you have any suggestions as to how best we might influence a raising
of standards in any of the major magic organizations?
'W.
Msg #5616 Dated 2:20:04 06-12-91 5597 <--> 5626
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Perhaps he was...to a certain degree.
'W.
Msg #5617 Dated 6:02:01 06-12-91 -> 5630
From: MAX MAVEN
To: SYSOP
Re: BIBLIOGRAPHY
Okay, I cleaned up an ASCII file as per your request, and attempted to
upload it as BIBLIOG.ZIP -- but failed in two attempts.
Msg #5618 Dated 6:05:16 06-12-91 -> 5629
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VISIT, ETC.
Tabman, I've seen the light and I'm a coming! I'll be in Washington
next week. Would like to get together with you and Bill Wells on one
of the nights Scotty York is working in Georgetown. Bill had told me
that Scotty's working on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so let's aim for one
of those days. Let me know if that's ok, if not we'll work something
out (I don't know my full schedule yet, but will in a day or two).
Sorry to hear about your troubles in Lake Charles. I grew up in
southern Louisiana - the southeastern part. It's actually a real nice
area, too bad you ran into some trouble there.
Surprised that you didn't like the Aronson book. Of course everyone
has different tastes and I've read your explanations for why you didn't
like it - fair enough. But if you do give it another try, check out
Self Control with the lie speller ending. I've had great luck with it
on laymen. Magicians just seem to blow it off as another lie speller
effect even though I make a big deal out of never touching the cards.
Oh, I still have the Garcia books set aside for you and will bring
them. Haven't received the Steinmeyer books yet. Really looki
looking forward to visit.
Charlie
p.s. when I get a chance, will describe my trip to L.A.
Msg #5621 Dated 6:55:15 06-12-91 5569 <--> 5624
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: THANX
I'm here, but trying to get online is xpensive since I have to make
several calls just to catch line one. Line two holds me for 30 sec an
then hangs up. Ma and Pa Bell don't gimme those calls for free. Yes-
terday I hadta hookup 10 or so times just to catch line line once &
theres noway to tell til the board answers which line or modem I got.
Msg #5622 Dated 6:55:22 06-12-91 5570 <--> 5654
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
The Mexican Turnover??
Msg #5623 Dated 6:55:26 06-12-91 5571 <--> 5632
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NICE PEOPLE
I think you bought me lunch twice, but since I bought you breakfast
maybe Kent owes both of us supper.
Msg #5624 Dated 6:55:30 06-12-91 5572 <--> 5631
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: THANX
Good, glad to hear he's moving. I know he's been wanting to for a
wile.
Msg #5625 Dated 6:55:35 06-12-91 5573 <--> 5633
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: YOIKS....
I went from 1794 to over 1800 on line 2 hangups yesterday!!
Msg #5626 Dated 6:55:39 06-12-91 5576 <--> 5627
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Basically, I agree with you though I think there's room for all level
of expertise in the magic orgs. Maybe the clubs could bring in lec-
turers to teach basic skills (Magic 101??) to neophytes so some of
the time wasters can be eliminated. I agree that I'd much rather have
the stuff over my head and come home and reference stuff I don't
know anything about. Maybe lecturers who visit venues of this type
could prepare a spec sheet and send it out early with necessary
sleights, etc posted. I know nobody will doit, but it might help with
this sort of thing.
Msg #5627 Dated 6:55:48 06-12-91 5594 <--> 5637
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
When Doug did the newspaper tear on the tv spl years ago using the
"only an illusion of tearing" a guy I was playing music with totally
believed the patter and demonstrated to me the value of a good pitch.
Msg #5628 Dated 6:55:54 06-12-91 5598 <--> 5642
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Some of these weerdos who hang around the studio kept asking me, "How
did he know I would pick that card?" Keyword KNOW. Is that mentalism
or prophesy??
Msg #5629 Dated 6:56:00 06-12-91 5618 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: VISIT, ETC.
Well, lemme know when you know. Actually, I do like the magic in the
Aronson book. It is a slow read, but I was just trying to see what
kind of discussion I could get going. We should go see Scotty for
sure. Gloria is on a lecture tour right now, but will be back next
week so I can move around a little bit. Will you be getting Road Hust
ler from K&G?
Msg #5630 Dated 8:01:50 06-12-91 5617 <--> 5652
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: BIBLIOGRAPHY
Can you describe the failure? Remember, on MAGIC! XModem CRC is
refered to as CXModem (selection C on the protocol menu) and may be
refered to as XModem or XModem CRC on older communications software.
This means that you should probably select C on the MAGIC! menu, but
could mean that you select X on the software menu.
If that wasn't the problem, either give me a voice call at 818-899-8812
(during normal Pacific time business hours) or leave me a message.
Msg #5631 Dated 8:07:49 06-12-91 5624 <--> 5653
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: THANX
Burt said his move is completed. Now it is a matter of getting
everything out of boxes, jars and cans and setting up.
Msg #5632 Dated 8:09:11 06-12-91 5623 <--> 5659
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: NICE PEOPLE
In truth I will be more than happy to take Kent and you to lunch or
supper anytime. Both of you are great people. We are working on the
modem thing - sure wish I could find the one switch that will make it
work perfectly for you. Ah! I know which switch it is! - it is the
one that switches your modem for a 9600SA! I think it's called the
"Bait 'n" switch.
Msg #5633 Dated 8:11:28 06-12-91 5625 <--> 5655
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: YOIKS....
Yeeps! I don't want to talk about it...
Msg #5634 Dated 8:50:01 06-12-91 -> 5667
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: 9600 BPS SUPPORT
Due to a small technical problem that we are trying to isolate, we have
temporarly disconnect the 9600 bps modem. (The shouts of joy can be
heard all the way from Charlotte Hall, Md).
9600 bps and 2400/MNP service will be resumed as soon as possible.
Msg #5635 Dated 8:51:22 06-12-91 -> 5636
From: STAN LAKE
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DUKES DYEVERSION
I took your advice from awhile back and purchased the Dukes Dyeversion.
You said you had an easy way of ditching the dye tube or something
along that line- do you recall what it was?
I spoke with Kerry Ross yesterday. He's the fellow who taught the
Circus of the Stars performers how to do their magic. Said you gave
him a great review some time back and wanted to tell you "Hello". I
told him he really needs to get a computer and jump on board himself.
Hey, sounds like you have a Bessemer furnace in your kitchen instead of
a stove! You know what that's good for? Well there's this certain
work of "art" in front of the Castle...
Msg #5636 Dated 9:15:50 06-12-91 5635 <--> 5660
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: DUKES DYEVERSION
Tie a silk around the paper tube. Then you slide the silk off, and
put it (with the gimmick slid out with it) away. I came up with this
independantly and found Karrell Fox did the same thing. The silk gives
you great cover to ditch the gaff.
Msg #5637 Dated 9:17:14 06-12-91 5576 <--> 5641
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I disagree with you Wayne! I would rather be with a group that has
never heard of or knows what a double undercut it.
I prefer the Levitation Gooseneck and "Does the sound system work"
crowd!
-
Msg #5639 Dated 9:17:29 06-12-91 5578 <--> 5649
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: FAX
I looks like microwave hot water for awhile!
Msg #5640 Dated 9:17:33 06-12-91 5580 <--> 5662
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
Funny, I had placed this small radio shack computer fan on the top
of the monitor, aimed into the air holes and it stopped the blinking
but the image on screen was wobbling -- oh so slightly -- but it was
noticeable. I just moved the fan so it didn't touch the monitor and
viola the screen wobbling stopped. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Maybe it can be used for a chop cup routine?
Msg #5641 Dated 9:17:41 06-12-91 5581 <--> 5643
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Yes, and they must sign an agreement to pay attention, pay thier
dues (not monetary, but practice, etc) and most of all, when in a
social situation with any of us never say "Here's this card trick I
want to show you!"
Just reminded me of why you NEVER should stay at someone's home when
on a lecture tour.
Why is it they keep you up 'til 4 ayem showing you A: Their collectio
n of dove pan lids, square circle load tubes and/or ball vases. B:
seem to think you would like to see every "dealer" gaffed card trick
ever sold.
Never ever had one of 'em say, "So how are YOU doing?"
Msg #5642 Dated 9:17:55 06-12-91 5583 <--> 5646
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
I guess Don Alan's Magic Ranch was "close" into the area, tho' it was
mostly "parlor" magic.
Msg #5643 Dated 9:18:00 06-12-91 5594 <--> 5644
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Yeah T A, how many times have you seen an act that looks more like a
dealer dem than a performance. Argh!
said just that, "Looks like a dealer demonstration... you appear to
be trying to pack more stuff into 15 minutes than will fit."
ever started to come to the USA) GAVE ME, PROPS, LINES, ETC. PERMIS-
SION TO TO THE BURNED NOTE IN WALLET -- USA PERFORMING RIGHTS -- And
when I first started to do it the bit ran abour 7 to 8 minutes. After
I developed my own stuff and learned to play the bits for maximum
audience reaction, same trick built to 13 minutes.
of courtesy (he didn't ask) I stopped doing it and developed my own
signature piece -- with help from Ricky and Persi... Same thing, at
first it ran 3-minutes, when fully developed it built to a solid
7-minutes. No Fill, all solid stuff. The TRICK became seconday. AS
KEN BROOKE "always preached" -- "It's not the trick, the beginning, o
r the end that counts ... it's the Journey along the way!"
He strongly said "to build a routine (close up or stage) it is the
LINKS you must develop!"
Msg #5644 Dated 9:18:19 06-12-91 5596 <--> 5645
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Bah, Bah, Bah, Bah (sound of sheep)
Msg #5645 Dated 9:18:23 06-12-91 5597 <--> 5650
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I love it. Shaxon is so great... I would love to have seen that!
Msg #5646 Dated 9:18:27 06-12-91 5599 <--> 5647
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
I guess Mental Magic is: A table full of Mental Epic Slates, Spirit
Bells, Clipboards, Highly polished wooden chests with shiny brass
hinges and locks...
And Mentalism is: Uri Geller sitting on the floor attempting to tell
us our watches will start running again, keys in our pockets MIGHT
bend...
Msg #5647 Dated 9:18:36 06-12-91 5601 <--> 5648
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Yeah, I agree. I did the Haskell gambling demo at the Magic Cellar,
with all the gags I could squeeze in... the audience loved it and
they also thought I was really doing stuff they use in SMALL casinos
and private clubs to cheat.
When I put on the DARK RED glasses, stuck my finger into the DAUB,
put some cards into the Holdout I was wearing and said, "OK, who
wants to play cards?" -- It brought the house down.
Later people came up and said, "boy your skill at stacking and dealin
g Royal Flushes is amazing" (Deck switch)....
Perception is everything! <----you can quote me on this line!
Msg #5648 Dated 9:18:49 06-12-91 5607 <--> 5842
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
What's a Magician? There are none that I know of. There are
PERFORMES doing magic tricks.
Best practitioners of mentalism?
I have seen: Maven, Geller, Randi, Koran, Kreskin and Fogel.
In order of THEIR EFFECT ON THE AUDIENCE (NOT WHAT I THINK OF THEM)
GELLER
KRESKIN
KORAN
MAVEN
RANDI
FOGEL
OOpssss... left out Falkenstien put him in the middle.
Msg #5649 Dated 9:19:03 06-12-91 5608 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: FAX
An old electric coil THERMADOR. I mean there is a round hole about
seven inches in dia. that used to be the bottom.
I scraped most of the molten aluminum(?) off the elements, while
still red hot with a wire brush. The lumps of molten stuff dropped
to the bottom little tray, which is OK, but a mess.
Msg #5650 Dated 9:19:11 06-12-91 5612 <--> 5651
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
How little?
Msg #5651 Dated 9:19:15 06-12-91 5615 <--> 5656
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
School for magicians. Give 'em a book list to read, and give 'em a
test... their card would show their level?
Hah... er, Nah... who would we sell all the crap to after a lecture i
f we cut down on the attendees.
a used car salesman, you don't care about the level of customers,
just the quantity and how much scratch you can liberate them of.
g you gotta pay the rent, so you put up with the dummy questions and
be Mr. Polite and teach 'em the stuff.
Msg #5652 Dated 9:19:26 06-12-91 5617 <--> 5658
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: BIBLIOGRAPHY
One more and you are OUT!
Msg #5653 Dated 9:19:29 06-12-91 5621 <--> 5665
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: THANX
Saw the latest Thaumaturgist... Buzman gave you a really killer sell
on the TABTABLES and the TRAIN board... Shud sell a few
Msg #5654 Dated 9:19:34 06-12-91 5622 <--> 5669
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
When I hit town, make sure I show you the INNOVATION that I have hit
on with the Mexican Turnover. There is NO WAY it looks like you
switch cards. (If you are looking in Maven, you ask me too...)
It is an incredible "throw off" -- can't describe, it is a timing,
action that fools.
Msg #5655 Dated 9:19:42 06-12-91 5625 <--> 5670
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: YOIKS....
Yoiks... my machine on line 2 only pauses 10 seconds, which ain't
too bad... but being outa dough it all adds up.
Msg #5656 Dated 9:19:46 06-12-91 5626 <--> 5657
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
If you advertise a neophyte level lecture... no one will admit they
are dummies and won't come.
not the teaching of the tricks, or the clever stuff, but the gags
and the PERFORMANCE... I more try to pretend I am doing a show and
have to entertain 'em, with anecdotes and silly bits of biz.
Msg #5657 Dated 9:19:54 06-12-91 5627 <--> 5661
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I think the same theme of patter/presentation CAN be used, but you
need to individualize it.
Msg #5658 Dated 9:19:59 06-12-91 5630 <--> 5663
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BIBLIOGRAPHY
What are NORMAL business hours. AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGhhhhhhhh.
Msg #5659 Dated 9:20:03 06-12-91 5632 <--> 5664
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NICE PEOPLE
Do you know the GYPSY Switch? A great move. I forget how it exactly
is done, but the street magicians in London used it with a batch
of coins. Koran used it... will look in his boox.
Msg #5660 Dated 9:15:15 06-12-91 5635 <--> 5684
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: DUKES DYEVERSION
Arrrrgh! That THING in front of the Castle! I took another look at it
again last Friday. They can lie all they want about it being a "cat,"
the damn thing has a CURLY TAIL - behind and just a bit below the
automobile differential "stomach." Cats do NOT have tails like that.
The thing really is a "SUPER PIG" - a gross, disgusting insult flaunted
right in front of the most significant house of magic on the planet.
The artist, "Michael," must be laughing at the stupidity of the
administration and the members who allow it to remain.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH - there has been plenty of time since the Board's
unanimous vote to remove it. I'm ready to help start a CLASS ACTION
suit, not just of members, but of magicians everywhere who have been
insulted and defamed by this crude, callous piece of garbage (NO, it is
NOT "art" when it is intended as a slur - we would not tolerate any
such insult directed at any racial, ethnic, religious, or gender group,
why should we tolerate it when directed at magicians? It would be an
object of protest if it were located at the Museum of Contemporary Art,
much less the Magic Castle).
GET RID OF SUPER_PIG!!!
Msg #5661 Dated 9:29:23 06-12-91 5637 <--> 5671
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
There is no sin in being ignorant, only in the failure to correct it.
There is no virtue in possessing knowledge, there is only virtue in
helping others attain it.
The people who attend lectures are the ones who are trying to learn.
Regardless of their skill, or lack thereof, we should be praising their
desire.
Msg #5662 Dated 9:39:58 06-12-91 5640 <--> 5686
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
Too weird. Many years ago, when one of the early commercial mainframes
was installed, it kept quiting due to heat. Management installed
air-conditioning, but only on the computer's half of the room! Placed
a glass wall down the center. The employees could sit there sweating
and look over at the nice cool computer. Believe this is how computers
got a reputation for being smart.
By the way, many large mainframes are WATER COOLED. Pipes inside carry
water to "chiller plates" attached to the central processing units and
memory. Have you considered having a plumber fix your monitor?
Msg #5663 Dated 9:45:09 06-12-91 5658 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BIBLIOGRAPHY
Around here? 9 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Most of the time I work 7 a.m. to 2
a.m., but I do NOT want calls outside of the "normal" hours for a
variety of reasons.
Msg #5664 Dated 9:47:52 06-12-91 5659 <--> 5666
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: NICE PEOPLE
Sheesh! There are already 100 switches on this thing! Plus 25
initialization commands.
Is it just my perception, by the way, or are there no more true Romany
(Gypsies) in the U.S.? Have they all become Yuppies?
Msg #5665 Dated 10:39:55 06-12-91 5631 <--> 5668
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: THANX
Sounds like a Houdini show.
Msg #5666 Dated 10:39:59 06-12-91 5632 <--> 5687
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NICE PEOPLE
Don't want to slow down the magi with quiker modems, but there is
a prob somewheres. After signing on to Practical Perifs board yest
I'm wondering what it is. No, let ME buy lunch!!
Msg #5667 Dated 10:40:05 06-12-91 5634 <--> 5674
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: 9600 BPS SUPPORT
Actually, it doesn't make me happy to pull it off line. I just wish
we kud figure it out.
Msg #5668 Dated 10:40:09 06-12-91 5653 <--> 5688
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: THANX
Good cuz I've gotta buy a new table saw.
Msg #5669 Dated 10:40:13 06-12-91 5654 <--> 5678
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
I love the Mexican Turnover anyway and am looking 4ward to getting a
new slant on an old move. On thinking, I think that the Paper Clip
Monte that Frank Garcia does must be inspired by Mexica too.
Msg #5670 Dated 10:40:19 06-12-91 5655 <--> 5690
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YOIKS....
What are the stack register settings or initialization string you use
with your modem and software. This confuses me since you can get in o
line 2 and not me. I called the co bbs from the modem co that MAGIC!
uses and got in no prob. It's gotta be somethin simple.
Msg #5671 Dated 10:40:25 06-12-91 5656 <--> 5672
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
You're probably right about that, but why not have an introductory
lecture for all "new" members of a club so at least they wooda heard
of some of this stuff anyway.
Msg #5672 Dated 10:40:31 06-12-91 5657 <--> 5673
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I talked to Gene Anderson at FFFF for awhile at the bar and he's stil
having a good time with his newspaper stuff. Who came up with those
lines that Henning used anyway?
Msg #5673 Dated 10:40:36 06-12-91 5661 <--> 5676
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I don't attend lectures to find out how to do tricks but to gain an
insight into how various lecturers, etc think. The magic thought pro-
cess is far more important (to me) than how to fool somebody. I enjoy
laughter and philosophy presented openly and without condescention as
well as seeing original blockbusters. Oftimes I don't stay for the
explanation part of a lecture preferring to enjoy the magic and the
magic of personality unadulterated by exposure.
Msg #5674 Dated 10:49:19 06-12-91 5667 <--> 5692
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: 9600 BPS SUPPORT
We're working on it. I've logged over 300 toll area calls to support
MAGIC! (and people think I'm ridin' free!). We've got our techys
testing stuff and their techys testing stuff. Your call to the
vendor's system yesterday was a real clue. The odd part is how so many
members have no problem with it and how the vendor has no reported
problems with your type of modem connecting with it. The reports on
their system concerning this type of problem are very few. Don't
worry, Tabman, we'll get it solved.
Msg #5676 Dated 11:03:10 06-12-91 5626 <--> 5677
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
We're on similar wavelengths here, Tab.
My original message regarding the lecture voiced my concern that this
guy was a FULL-FLEDGED member of a national magic organization.
There sure is room for all levels of expertise...that's why I'm in
favor of tiered membership in these organizations. Then, perhaps,
lectures can be given specifically for each level of expertise and
membership. Appropriate lectures for appropriate audiences. The focus
of the lecture program should be to help the members with the knowledge
required to achieve the next level of expertise.
I'm sure we'll never see it in this lifetime. Sigh.
'W.
Msg #5677 Dated 11:11:38 06-12-91 5637 <--> 5679
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I disagree with you Pete!
I'm more comfortable with the "Hey, flag down that cocktail waitress"
Crowd!
.
.
.
.
.KEY: = Dunno. Also: In the dark, out of touch, clueless.
.
.
'W.
Msg #5678 Dated 11:10:30 06-12-91 5669 <--> 5689
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
I think Mexican Turnovers are called Empanadas. They are called Samosa
in India, "pies" or "pasties" in England, and Pierogie in Poland.
Ingredients and spices differ.
Msg #5679 Dated 11:18:03 06-12-91 5651 <--> 5680
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
(Watching the lines which used to separate a lecture from a dealer demo
blur completely!)
'W.
Msg #5680 Dated 11:16:33 06-12-91 5673 <--> 5683
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Often same here. I'm not a trick collector, although I do look for
stuff that fits my particular (peculiar?) personality, talent, skill,
etc. I do think that one reason people often do copy (or legitimately
purchase or license) tricks is the fact that they DO see the work and
value in it - that the patter, timing, subtleties have to work together
with the basic "trick." Tamariz's version of a jumbo three-card monte,
for example, is NOTHING if you don't understand and use all of his
subtle moves.
I'm NOT justifying copying (by a long shot!), I'm just explaining it.
I do know that material fails if I don't make it mine. I think that T
A stated it pretty well in his message about it not being worth his
soul.
Msg #5682 Dated 11:25:21 06-12-91
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: SAY HI
By the way, Charlie...
If you run across Jim McKrell down there, be sure to send my best
regards. Jim is an old buddy and I think he's now doing TV news in
Houston.
'W.
Msg #5683 Dated 11:23:20 06-12-91 5676 <--> 5685
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Why not just ban entry into magic, period? I just finished reading the
bio of Jade in this month's (June) Linking Ring. She discovered magic
when she was seventeen and apparently totally immersed herself in it -
reading books, attending lectures, and working at it. Twelve years
later she won the Gold Medal at IBM. Should someone have stood in her
way? Should someone have presumed to have said, "YOU aren't ready for
this book (or this lecture)"? Yes, I too have seen the "pain in the
colon [:]" types at lectures who can easily spoil it for others. But
I think it is the JOB of the lecturer to deal with that. Why doesn't
the lecturer either say "I'll be happy to show you that right after the
lecture" or "that is in so-and-so's book" and CONTROL the lecture
environment.
As I mentioned before, I think that these "put downs" of the people who
are trying to improve themselves are inappropriate. They attend
lectures because they ARE working to learn the craft - something that
should be encouraged, not disparaged.
By the way, one thing that should be encouraged is Max's (Phil's?)
inclusion of an "Index of Sleights" in Focus. A brilliant idea.
Msg #5684 Dated 12:33:32 06-12-91 5660 <--> 5700
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DUKES DYEVERSION
Maybe an interim move would be to put a cape on (over) it!
Msg #5685 Dated 12:33:37 06-12-91 5661 <--> 5691
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Msg #5686 Dated 12:33:41 06-12-91 5662 <--> 5705
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
I can't afford a plumber. Hey are these messages going online? I dont
see my replies... if they are say yes the message about the messages
is there. duh........
Msg #5687 Dated 12:33:47 06-12-91 5664 <--> 5715
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NICE PEOPLE
YUP!
Msg #5688 Dated 12:33:51 06-12-91 5668 <--> 5706
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: THANX
A table saw only make tables? Duh!
Msg #5689 Dated 12:33:55 06-12-91 5669 <--> 5695
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
Also ask me to show you the KILLER 3 card monte stuff.
Msg #5690 Dated 12:33:59 06-12-91 5670 <--> 6041
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: YOIKS....
I will try to find out, you know me and computers and teapots.
Msg #5691 Dated 12:34:03 06-12-91 5672 <--> 5693
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I think Douglass (that's what close friends of Henning call him) (by
the way, Henning REALLY BELIEVES THERE IS A UNICORN IN HIS GARDEN)
used the Illusion/Reality theme all thru his stuff.
You know that David Ogden Stiers (was a hit on M*A*S*H for years) wss
er, was, the comedy magi in the Henning show on Broadway?
Msg #5692 Dated 12:34:11 06-12-91 5674 <--> 5702
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: 9600 BPS SUPPORT
Tab, are you still using the "white gas" operated modem, the one you
pull a rope to start?
Msg #5693 Dated 12:34:16 06-12-91 5676 <--> 5694
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The famed Magic Circle in London (those that know say "you don't need
TIRED ... ER freudian slip...??? Tiered membership. I have the
highest, MIMC with Gold Star -- the same as Vernon, Slydini, etc.,
and I DON'T THINK I DESERVE IT... but at one time a PAL OF MINE WAS
on the Membership committee and he nominated me for that high rank.
I feel bad about some of the old geezers (that's a polite term in the
all dummies... I DIDN'T TURN IT DOWN!
who gets to be prez, etc. ARE ALMOST ALWAYS POLITICAL and part of
the Good ole boy network.... And the Magic Cirlce (in London) (you se
e I belong the the Magic Circle (in Oakland) STILL DOES NOT ADMIT
FEMALE MEMBERS.... Dumb. Look how much more fun the meetings could
be with "ladies" present!
Msg #5694 Dated 12:34:31 06-12-91 5677 <--> 5696
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
What kind of flag do you use?
Msg #5695 Dated 12:34:35 06-12-91 5678 <--> 5707
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
They all have APPLES inem.
Msg #5696 Dated 12:34:39 06-12-91 5679 <--> 5697
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
OK, sure many, many lectures ARE DEALER DEMS, I wuz talking about an
act working comedy clubs and real people shows.... lookin' like a dem
Msg #5697 Dated 12:34:44 06-12-91 5683 <--> 5698
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Index of sleights... DO YOU SLEIGHT PEOPLE? Jus' kiddin' boss...
Hey, we could have people wear different color codes at lectures.
Red for "I am a hot and knowledgable magi"
Blue for "I am here because my wife is boring...."
Yellow for "I am afraid to get up and perform, but I like to watch..
Green for "I envy those that have skill and am here to sleep....
Brown for "I am a conservative fellow/gal and don't wear power ties..
Magenta for "I am here to meet you and adore you....
Black for "I am sitting in the back row and hope you can't see me...
White for "I am able to keep my clothes clean...
Checkered black/white "I win auto races and have lots of money....
Clear plastic "I am cold (I think I have run out of ideas!)
Msg #5698 Dated 12:49:47 06-12-91 5641 <--> 5699
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Pete,
You're welcome anytime at my house. I don't even own a dove pan or
a square circle, and the only gaffed card trick I have is one I made
for myself. And I am interested in how YOU are.
Msg #5699 Dated 12:49:56 06-12-91 5656 <--> 5701
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Looy Simonoff has offered a basic magic class each year at UNLV.
For the last three years it was cancelled due to lack of attendance.
Too bad, as he had (has) a lot to offer but nobody wanted to admit
they didn't know it all, or wasn't interested in learning the basics.
These same people are the first in line to buy something "new".
EXAMPLE: Mike Rogers demo'ed Sponge Bunnies and SOLD OUT!
Msg #5700 Dated 13:10:57 06-12-91 5684 <--> 5739
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DUKES DYEVERSION
Good point, Pete! The latest excuse is that they can't spare the
workforce from completing the library. So why NOT drape a big sheet of
canvas over Super Pig? There's somethin' goin' on with the thing that
is more than simple procrastination.
Msg #5701 Dated 13:13:49 06-12-91 5693 <--> 5703
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The matter of the admission of women to the Magic Circle was once again
recently voted on and once again turned down. Apparently, since it is
a constitutional change it requires a 2/3 vote. In the past few years
the vote has been about 60-something percent. Also, it is apparently
the members OUTSIDE the U.K. who vote against it more than those within
the U.K.
Msg #5702 Dated 13:15:51 06-12-91 5674 <--> 5709
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: 9600 BPS SUPPORT
Yeah, I guess it's time for another tabman auction for MAGIC! systems
support. I'll dig around in the collection of magical oddities (as Mr
Busby calls my stuff) and see what I can come up with to round up
some cash. Maybe something from the tabman shop - how about a used
table saw with melted ball bearings - I've been crafting some nice
wands lately. Dunno. How is the MAGIC! Anthology coming. Richard
Hartmeister and I are cooking up an extracurricular project, maybe
he has some ideas!!!!
Msg #5703 Dated 13:16:00 06-12-91 5680 <--> 5704
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Tamariz lecture was great. I stayed for the performance part and then
left right after his explanation of the jumbo monte routine. No way
anyone could copy his presentation. Maybe you could take one of the
effects and make it your own, but the laff value in his performance
overshadows the magic (which is fantastic) and again it points back a
the personality of the performer. Tamariz showed up at FFFF to hang o
for a day and have a few laffs at the bar which he certainly deserved
Msg #5704 Dated 13:16:08 06-12-91 5683 <--> 5708
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I don't see it as a put down, but as a frustration at being slowed
down by "slower" students.
Msg #5705 Dated 13:16:13 06-12-91 5686 <--> 5714
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
Yes, the message about the messages are here. Duhh.........
Msg #5706 Dated 13:16:16 06-12-91 5688 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: THANX
Well, in the tabman shop, a table saw only makes tables.
Msg #5707 Dated 13:16:20 06-12-91 5689 <--> 5716
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
Show me, show me. I need the money.
Msg #5708 Dated 13:16:23 06-12-91 5691 <--> 5710
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I didn't know D.A. Stiers was into magicf. I somehow missed that one.
BTW, Unicorn is an essential ingredient in Brunswick Stew.
Msg #5709 Dated 13:16:28 06-12-91 5692 <--> 5717
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: 9600 BPS SUPPORT
I had a kick starter installed on my gas operated modem after I tried
the cut and restored pull rope.
Msg #5710 Dated 13:16:32 06-12-91 5697 <--> 5711
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Instead of coloured buttons, I suggest that the more rabid magi spike
their hair and dye it the appropriate colour. Easier to spot from the
podium.
Msg #5711 Dated 13:16:38 06-12-91 5676 <--> 5712
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I, for one, feel that there is more than one way to make a
contribution to the magic field than simply knowing all the required
sleights. I do agree, howsomeever (sorry Evan) that at least a knowle
dge of what it takes to be an effective worker is up to the individal
and not necessarily up to the lecturer present. For instance, a
college student who decides to take Chem 431 before he's passed 101
201, etc has no business not only in the class but slowing down the
students who have spent the required time and effort on the prereks.
The lecturers on the circuit are there for more than one reason, the
formost is their love for the art, the second is that they're getting
paid to teach and entertain. I've never met an effective, dedicated
pro who didn't love magic first. Maybe there needs to be some quali-
fiers for lecturers also???
Msg #5712 Dated 13:16:34 06-12-91 5697 <--> 5713
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Good list, Pete. But I would use Green for "I'm buying my way into
magic" to be consistent with the rest of the list.
Msg #5713 Dated 13:17:48 06-12-91 5699 <--> 5718
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Several people in the Los Angeles area offer classes. I believe that
Jim Kahlert, who teaches basic to intermediate close-up, has little
trouble filling his classes.
Of course people don't like to admit that they don't know something.
It is basic human nature. But for most, magic is an advocation and
while they may be passionate about it, they don't want to be
embarrassed.
Msg #5714 Dated 13:20:32 06-12-91 5686 <--> 5733
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
Know what you mean about the plummer. If people really were after
moola, they would skip magic and go for plumbing.
I don't know which message about messages you are refering to. Far as
I can tell, your stuff is getting here. The system doesn't show your
own messages to you as "new" messages because it assumes you have read
them. You can always use one of the commands, such as RC;nnn (where
nnn is a number to begin at) to go back and read your own messages.
Msg #5715 Dated 13:23:30 06-12-91 5687 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: NICE PEOPLE
Figures. Maybe the MAGIC-NL folks can tell us if there are still
Romany (Gypsies) in Europe. Huge numbers, of course, were killed by
the Nazis, but there were some post-war.
Msg #5716 Dated 13:25:23 06-12-91 5695 <--> 5751
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
You sure? When I make Pierogie, I don't put apples in 'em. I use
potatoes, onions, secret spices, and wonton skins.
Msg #5717 Dated 13:27:00 06-12-91 5702 <--> 5740
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: 9600 BPS SUPPORT
Don't sweat it for now, Tabman. Work on them tables and Boney Ponies.
Msg #5718 Dated 13:29:10 06-12-91 5703 <--> 5719
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I wasn't necessarily refering to copying his presentation completely.
But even just the work that went into the moves that convince the
audience that they are really watching Three Card Monte is magnificent.
Once again, it is a case of seeing into the performer's mind. Without
the right moves, the thing won't work.
Msg #5719 Dated 13:31:13 06-12-91 5704 <--> 5721
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I agree that it can be frustrating. But a well-prepared lecturer would
plan for the audience - knowing that some will be less prepared than
others. I just haven't liked the "blast the novices" tone some of the
messages have taken. Those who don't work on improving themselves
SHOULD be blasted - hopefully right out of magic (and possibly into
amateur plumbing so they can hire magi for private parties). But those
who DO exhibit a desire to learn should be encouraged. If clubs were
"smart" and wanted to get the most out of lectures, they would find out
in advance what moves, sleights, etc. the lecturer was going to us and
have a pre-session a week or two in advance to prepare their members.
Msg #5720 Dated 13:45:17 06-12-91
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MODEM GAS
OK, I reset my stacks to correspond to yours. Maybe the sysop will put
the modem from hell back online and lemme giveit a go!!!!!
Msg #5721 Dated 14:17:16 06-12-91 5661 <--> 5722
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
YES!
Msg #5722 Dated 14:21:27 06-12-91 5711 <--> 5725
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Don't be sorry.
Msg #5723 Dated 14:25:04 06-12-91 -> 5727
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TABLES
Congratualtions on the Busby thing!
Msg #5725 Dated 15:29:49 06-12-91 5542 <--> 5726
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Max,
I basically agree with all you said. It seems that with this
effect (Kirigami), the description is the method (or is it the
method is in the description?) This is unique in that it lended
itself perfectly to your MINDGAMES video and it would probably
lose something if done live by anyone else. I agree, it's yours
and you should be proud of it!
He was wrong in going into that much detail without knowing his
rights, but that is hardly plagiarism, just innocent lack of
knowledge. (now he knows!... see how well this worked out?)
Using my original WHAT IF? scheme, I would have hoped your
response would have been "Yes it's mine, I'm glad you liked it.
If you would like more info, by my book XXXX, and you, too, can
perform it."
What worried me was the tone of the conversation leaning towards
restricting (censoring?) messages on the chance that someone had
thought of it first. This would do nothing but bog down an
otherwise healthy BBS.
It's interesting how the conversations on this thread have become
more positive. Maybe that was the reason I said what I did in the
first place.
BTW, I thoroughly enjoyed your book "Focus" and look forward to
obtaining "Thavant" even though I'm not a mentalist or a mental
magician. I just enjoy your writing.
David (the other one)
Msg #5726 Dated 15:31:23 06-12-91 5683 <--> 5728
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
You have managed to entirely misunderstand and misrepresent my
statements and position. If you really believe that my intention is to
disparage the efforts of diligent "newcomers," please re-read my posts.
'W.
Msg #5727 Dated 15:21:58 06-12-91 5723 <--> 5759
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TABLES
Yeah! Just got the Thaumaturgist! GREAT write up! If you haven't
seen it yet, it starts out "THE TABMAN TABLE - The Tabman. Many
inside guys already know who the Tabman is. He lives outside Baltimore
on an old farm that belonged to his grandparents. Besides the
full-fledged recording studio on the land, there's a woodshop. That's
where the Tabman works his special brand of magic, turning out
exquisitely hand made props for serious magicians. When he first
approached me to see the Tabman Table I thought, 'Hey, nothing can be
this good.' Then I heard the comments from the lucky few who had seen
it. Raves. Then mine came. I was knocked out by the fastidious
quality and attention to workmanship. If you've never considered
performing your magic on a close-up stage, then reconsider. This can
add elegance to your presentations. Michael Ammar is using one, and so
are a fortunate few other professional workers."
Goes on in small type for most of a page. And there's a nice quote
from Michael Ammar: "Personally, when it come to things I work with,
price is simply not the object. I feel that your personal style, and
the things you surround yourself with, are all part of the content.
Often, it's who and what you are that speaks louder than what you have
to say. That's why I feel so good using your Tabman Table, the Paul
Fox Cups, the Mike Rogers hand sewn leather balls... With such classy
props, I have to work very hard to make certain that I, my technical
ability, and the construction of my routine aren't the weakest links in
the chain."
Glad I'm one of those fortunate few... Even compared with the best
surfaces I'd ever used before, the Tabman Tables are like power
steering. And they ain't bad lookin' either!
Msg #5728 Dated 15:34:34 06-12-91 5693 <--> 5729
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
For any group not to admit someone on the sole basis of sex is
ridiculous...with the sole exception of a men's club or a women's club
in certain circumstances. A MAGIC club should be open to all sexes,
races, religions, etc.
'W.
Msg #5729 Dated 15:37:17 06-12-91 5694 <--> 5730
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
A "Scotch" flag usually works just fine.
'W.
Msg #5730 Dated 15:39:44 06-12-91 5697 <--> 5731
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
How about Gold Plastic for: "Don't bother me with any philosophy or
ideas. Just sell me one of everything and let me get outta here!"
'W.
Msg #5731 Dated 15:42:52 06-12-91 5711 <--> 5732
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Tabster...
It seems that you are the only person who understands what I said.
Thanks.
'W.
Msg #5732 Dated 15:40:10 06-12-91 5726 <--> 5735
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Hmmmmm..... Maybe we should re-read each others posts. I wasn't
representing your statements (or, for that matter, any views held by
MAGIC! - those are seperate from my own). I merely think that we don't
need "merit badges" in general membership organizations. Something I
written about, on here, before. I would not be opposed to achievement
awards, as long as they didn't penalize those who had not attained them
- either because they were incapable or because they didn't care to try
for them. By the same token, I don't oppose "inner circles."
Msg #5733 Dated 15:45:40 06-12-91 5714 <--> 5734
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
Some have...ever seen the Magic Plumbers?
'W.
Msg #5734 Dated 15:46:29 06-12-91 5733 <--> 5755
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
Yep! And you sure are right on that call!
Msg #5735 Dated 15:49:41 06-12-91 5696 <--> 5738
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Follow the thread back, Pete. I was responding to your message #5651.
'W.
Msg #5738 Dated 15:59:58 06-12-91 5732 <--> 5741
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
You see, I don't think we need "GENERAL MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATIONS."
The "general" most often becomes much too "general," thereby watering
down most of the substance, power, clout and achievements of the
organization.
It seems to me that we've been through this discussion before...my
opinions have not changed.
'W.
Msg #5739 Dated 16:14:49 06-12-91 5636 <--> 5749
From: STAN LAKE
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DUKES DYEVERSION
Thanks very much, I'll work on that as soon as it arrives. I keep
flagging down the UPS man. "Are you SURE you don't have something for
me today? Comes from the town of Colon- no address!"
Msg #5740 Dated 16:44:44 06-12-91 5702 <--> 5777
From: STAN LAKE
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: 9600 BPS SUPPORT
I would be interested in purchasing a nice wand. Preferably one with
metal tips but that's not a must have. Let me know if I can order one.
Thanks a bunch.
Msg #5741 Dated 17:24:21 06-12-91 5661 <--> 5742
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I agree wholeheartedly with your first statement, but not your second.
There _is_ virtue is possessing knowledge, if that possession has
something to do with effort taken to obtain that knowledge.
Msg #5742 Dated 17:25:54 06-12-91 5672 <--> 5743
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The patter came from Sid Lorraine.
Msg #5743 Dated 17:26:27 06-12-91 5683 <--> 5744
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The index was Stephen Minch's idea.
Msg #5744 Dated 17:26:47 06-12-91 5701 <--> 5745
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The club by-laws require a 75% majority. I find the situation rather
pathetic. I was invited to join the Magic Circle about thirteen years
ago, and declined specifically because of their policy on gender.
Msg #5745 Dated 17:28:25 06-12-91 5738 <--> 5747
From: MAX MAVEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Agreed. The problem is that "General Membership" pulls down to the
lowest common denominator. There are, mind you, circumstances where
that may be warranted, but the pursuit of art is, I think, not one of
them.
In a recent message the Sysop stated that someone should not be
penalized for being incapable. Aren't you glad that the medical world
doesn't subscribe to that philosophy?
Msg #5746 Dated 17:49:30 06-12-91 -> 5803
From: MAX MAVEN
To: SYSOP
Re: UPLOAD
Tried again, and this time it went through. I'm not sure why anyone
would want to slog through this, but at any rate it's called
BIBLIOG.ZIP, and will unzip into a clean ASCII file.
Msg #5747 Dated 18:09:23 06-12-91 5698 <--> 5748
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
You are a rare dude, dude....
Msg #5748 Dated 18:09:29 06-12-91 5699 <--> 5750
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Well, Mike's sponge bunnies are better than GOOD, they are GREAT, as
are his Baseball-type balls for the cups and balls... Wayne are you
reading this... Cups in the mail.
Msg #5749 Dated 18:09:36 06-12-91 5700 <--> 5767
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DUKES DYEVERSION
It is probably a disguised Oil Rig and they are pumping...
Msg #5750 Dated 18:09:40 06-12-91 5701 <--> 5752
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
They need a benevolant dictator!
Msg #5751 Dated 18:09:45 06-12-91 5707 <--> 5756
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
Here is a try at explaining the never been in print or 'TIPPED' way
to do the Mexican Turnover -- totally fooling and a throw off.
First guy to teach me the way to do the Mexican Turnover was Clarke
"The Senator" Crandall (also learned dice stacking from him and have
THE very cup he made for Fred Kaps -- signed etc.) Anyway, Crandall
(or Grondall as Okito used to call him) told me you need to hold the
card in place ('cause he was a bar magician and the bar was often
wet) so you hold the card on the table, so slightly, with your left
index fingertip at half way up the left side of the card. That way,
when your card - in right hand, held in a fingertip grip ala Vernon
grip to Twist Aces, comes in from the left and flips the card over,
and you switch, in the usual Mex turnover way... The left fingertip
keeps the tabled card from moving.
WELL....one day whilst practicing I discovered that you can actually
switch cards with this motion BUT DON'T LET THE CARD FLIP OVER FACE
UP.... hard to visualize, etc. but it is like the old circus bit,
where you MISS once... The action is you start to flip card over,
but it doesn't turn over.... (BUT YOU HAVE SWITCHED CARDS) You need
to talk it right... like, "cmon, cmon" or "oops, c'mon" IE: YOU ARE
A BIT MIFFED AT CARD NOT TURNING OVER, SO YOU DO THE TURN SLOWLY AND
DELIBERATELY -- actually just turning it over. (You already switched
the card -- but believe me if done with the right mood, action, and
timing IT IS INDETECTABLE)...
If you check this out Max (I assume you read all messages) I'd like
your opinion.
Msg #5752 Dated 18:10:12 06-12-91 5710 <--> 5753
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
That's a great Idea... If I only had enuf fur to spike and color!
Msg #5753 Dated 18:10:17 06-12-91 5711 <--> 5754
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Gee then there would only be about one lecture a year....arrgghh*
Msg #5754 Dated 18:10:23 06-12-91 5712 <--> 5757
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Abbott's (we all know where they are) used to sell a "new guy" a full
evening show of illusion stuff and book him to perform at their famed
Get Togethers (years ago -- I hope) and a great story I just heard
was that Percy Abbott booked a big time top pro and said, "Oh, don't
do the Super X, I just sold one to a guy who is working tonite, and
don't do the Shooting thru a Girl, sold him one too, and --etc...
The customers all worked, all did thier stuff and the pro just did
all the stuff anyway... and wowed the audience.
Msg #5755 Dated 18:10:34 06-12-91 5714 <--> 5764
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
I tried to read message nnnn, but was nnnnoooowwwwhhhheeeerrrreeee
ttttoooo bbbbeeee ffffoooouuuunnnndddd. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!
Msg #5756 Dated 18:10:40 06-12-91 5716 <--> 5779
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
Like "found guilty and WONTON."
Msg #5757 Dated 18:10:44 06-12-91 5718 <--> 5758
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Skip the moves and go rough and smooth.
Msg #5758 Dated 18:10:48 06-12-91 5719 <--> 5760
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
This is a good time to bring up a better format than a lecture. And
that is a WORKSHOP. Sit about 6 magi around a table with the teacher
and everyone goes over the stuff and really gets something for their
time/money/effort.
Msg #5759 Dated 18:10:57 06-12-91 5727 <--> 5783
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TABLES
Glad you wrote it here on MAGIC! I can't read the small type in the
Thaumaturgist.
Msg #5760 Dated 18:11:03 06-12-91 5728 <--> 5761
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Ok, soon as either of us hit the Lottery we'll go over there and
knock the doors down ... OK, I have a Magic Circle anecdote.
.
Some years ago I was there with a group, which included one of the
funniest ad libbers I have ever known, MIKE CALDWELL.
.
We went into the 'fabled' clubroom and the place was filled with
orange plastic chairs. My ex-wife commented, "Gee, we come to the
ancient and wonderful Magic Circle (women are allowed in on the
special "at homes" show nights) and they have plastic chairs, while
the Magic Castle has 100-year olde antiques!"
.
Needless to say, Caldwell "stole" her line and flattened the audience
when he delivered it!
Msg #5761 Dated 18:11:20 06-12-91 5729 <--> 5762
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I "Gin" try that sometime.
Msg #5762 Dated 18:11:24 06-12-91 5730 <--> 5763
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Gold it is.........
Msg #5763 Dated 18:11:29 06-12-91 5731 <--> 5765
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
What did you say?
Msg #5764 Dated 18:11:33 06-12-91 5733 <--> 5827
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
The Magic Plumbers are getting close!
Msg #5765 Dated 18:11:38 06-12-91 5735 <--> 5768
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I haven't figured out how to follow threads BACK on IMP! yet, altho
Licht just told me how. You keep using the same INPUT file, and
appending the posted messages onto the file. You need to use new
output file names alla time tho... Am just starting to try that
method tonite....
Msg #5767 Dated 18:11:50 06-12-91 5739 <--> 5826
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: DUKES DYEVERSION
You can roll a piece of paper into a tube, about 14-inches long, with
a tube dia. of about 1-1/2 inches. Put something, a golf ball, any
thing that has a bit of weight and will fit inside the tube. Then
tie an 18-inch silk around the middle.
Hold it all in left hand, at bottom, tube standing up, like a torch?
Let ball drop into hand (it is still inside tube) Slide the silk
down to left hand. Then let ball come out with cover of silk and put
both away (in pocket or hat or table) that way when the stuff arrives
you will already know how to do the new and secret move.
Msg #5768 Dated 18:12:02 06-12-91 5745 <--> 5769
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Maven-San: I didn't think "General Members" were allowed into the
lectures at the Castle... only "Regular Members" -- don't they go
through some kind of "test"? I know.... how good are the testers!!!
Msg #5769 Dated 18:21:09 06-12-91 5745 <--> 5770
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Let me know if you're for rent, Max. I'd like to carry you around for
self-defense!
Seriously, you've pinpointed the essence of my statement. Thank you.
'W.
Msg #5770 Dated 18:24:52 06-12-91 5760 <--> 5771
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Ahhh...mystique is all, eh?
(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)
'W.
Msg #5771 Dated 18:26:21 06-12-91 5763 <--> 5772
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Ask Tab or Max. I'm exhausted!
'W.
Msg #5772 Dated 18:27:04 06-12-91 5765 <--> 5773
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Good luck!
Msg #5773 Dated 18:27:24 06-12-91 5768 <--> 5778
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
...and who checks credentials at the door???
'W.
Msg #5777 Dated 19:38:35 06-12-91 5740 <--> 5799
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: 9600 BPS SUPPORT
I haven't considered selling any wands, but am making some up soon of
Walnut with brass tips. When I do I'll holler atcha and maybe we can
do something then to help MAGIC! out. Without this board, I'd be
alone - physically, I enjoy this state, however, mentally I'd really
miss the stimulation and friendships. The importance of magic to me
goes far beyond lucre.
Msg #5778 Dated 19:38:43 06-12-91 5742 <--> 5780
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I suspected as much. One of my prized possessions is a book from Sid
Lorraine's library - LePaul's Card Magic - which I treasure. It was
autographed to Sid from LePaul and Jerry McDermott. An advance copy
of the edition of 500.
Msg #5779 Dated 19:38:53 06-12-91 5751 <--> 5810
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
Cheeez, that's good. I hope you'll demonstrate the move for me, tho
I see what you're talking about. BTW, I'm polishing up my collection
of dove pan lids and gaffed coffee cups and will throw them away b4 U
arrive. I don't do any packet tricks. Am glad I finally got to see
Sen. Crandall's banjo at the Castle the other week. I tried to learn
the dice stack from his book, but couldn't get anywhere with it.
Msg #5780 Dated 19:39:01 06-12-91 5753 <--> 5781
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
OK, 4get it then.
Msg #5781 Dated 19:39:07 06-12-91 5758 <--> 5782
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Now that is a great idea. Sorta like a "super session." I would go 4
that.
Msg #5782 Dated 19:39:12 06-12-91 5760 <--> 5784
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
First time I saw Mr. Caldwell do his famous fall I cracked up, as did
everyone else around.
Msg #5783 Dated 19:39:18 06-12-91 5727 <--> 5828
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TABLES
I haven't seen the write up as of yet, but am glad it is out. I spent
a lotta time working with the surface, etc but never wanted to be a
salesman. Busby Magic was the only dealer I considered to look at my
stuff. I wanted to be able to keep my distance and to continue to
enjoy doing the work for the sake of it. It is ART to me. Thanks for
reading me some of it. See you in a week or so......
Msg #5784 Dated 19:39:27 06-12-91 5731 <--> 5785
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Welcome. I know from where you come.
Msg #5785 Dated 19:39:33 06-12-91 5741 <--> 5786
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Perhaps it is the journey, not the destination that drives the
true seeker.
Msg #5786 Dated 19:57:25 06-12-91 5738 <--> 5787
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Without the "general membership organizations" there would be no
lectures, few books, very few magic shops, and certainly no Magic
Castle. But, as you said, we've been through this before.
Msg #5787 Dated 19:59:37 06-12-91 5741 <--> 5788
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I don't know that I would assign virtue to the possession of knowledge.
Respect, admiration, status, yes, but I think that virtue only comes
from the transmission of that knowledge.
Msg #5788 Dated 20:01:49 06-12-91 5743 <--> 5789
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Still a great idea!
Msg #5789 Dated 20:07:41 06-12-91 5744 <--> 5790
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
You took a praiseworthy stand.
Msg #5790 Dated 20:10:14 06-12-91 5745 <--> 5791
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
On the other hand, the medical profession has other problems that I
wouldn't think you would want in the arts.
Msg #5791 Dated 20:11:39 06-12-91 5750 <--> 5792
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Yeah! One of those gals who looks great in leather and who carries a
whip!
Msg #5792 Dated 20:13:18 06-12-91 5754 <--> 5793
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Would have been REALLY funny if he had invented the stuff!
Msg #5793 Dated 20:14:18 06-12-91 5757 <--> 5794
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
That is an alternative - but the point was the great thinking that went
into all the Tamariz moves.
Msg #5794 Dated 20:15:46 06-12-91 5758 <--> 5795
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Yes, I too like workshops and "master classes." There is an old story
in training - if you do a book you can sell it for $39.95. If you then
read it to audio cassettes - which are harder to learn from since you
can't easily reference sections, etc. - you can sell it for $75. And
if you do it on video - which is a hard medium to use, not
portable, etc. - you can get $150 for it. Lastly, you can make people
have to come to your lecture, travel, stay in hotels, work to your
schedule, etc. and you can charge $495 for it!
Msg #5795 Dated 20:20:05 06-12-91 5773 <--> 5796
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Credentials are usually checked by two people.
Msg #5796 Dated 20:39:26 06-12-91 5726 <--> 5797
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I won't speak for David, but my interpretation of his remarks was that
if your attitude and approach became commonplace, that is exactly the
type of restrictive environment that would be created.
It is more the long-term implications of your idea I find frightening,
not your specific, innocent suggestions.
Msg #5797 Dated 20:41:15 06-12-91 5728 <--> 5798
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I think the whole point of current United States law, Wayne, is that
"With the sole exception of a men's club or a women's club" is NOT a
valid exception.
Msg #5798 Dated 20:46:14 06-12-91 5786 <--> 5801
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I concur. While people fling self-congratulary, misplaced elitist
statements around, it should be important for them to remember who pays
the bills.
Msg #5799 Dated 20:46:10 06-12-91 5777 <--> 5800
From: STAN LAKE
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: 9600 BPS SUPPORT
The walnut wands sound great, I'll b*e loo kint forward to when they
ars available.
It sounds like your computer is you r only access to the outside
world, and what an interesting world it is her=e on Magic! I keep
having to correct mistakes from line noise- hope this c*eomes out ok.
I'll type to you later.
Take Care!
Msg #5800 Dated 20:50:02 06-12-91 5777 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: 9600 BPS SUPPORT
Ditto my interest on the wands, T-Man.
Msg #5801 Dated 20:51:45 06-12-91 5731 <--> 5802
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Agreement is not the same thing as understanding. And if only one
person out of all these THOUSANDS of people on MAGIC! really did
understand you, you need to work on your composition skills!
Love & Kisses,
Evan
Msg #5802 Dated 20:52:56 06-12-91 5745 <--> 5805
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The medical profession does not thrive on the interest of its own
amateurs. Magic does.
Msg #5803 Dated 20:57:49 06-12-91 5746 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: UPLOAD
Thanks. Will take a look at it later this evening and will post it
thereafter.
Msg #5805 Dated 21:01:38 06-12-91 5786 <--> 5806
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Nonsense, David.
I can't imagine a substantiation of any of that!
'W.
Msg #5806 Dated 21:04:15 06-12-91 5795 <--> 5807
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Glad to hear it...although I've never witnessed anyone's presence being
questioned.
'W.
Msg #5807 Dated 21:05:56 06-12-91 5796 <--> 5808
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The implications are in your mind, Evan.
'W.
Msg #5808 Dated 21:07:06 06-12-91 5797 <--> 5809
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Quote me in context, please, Evan.
I also disagree with your capsulization of "The whole point of current
United States law."
'W.
Msg #5809 Dated 21:09:54 06-12-91 5801 <--> 5811
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Evan, I wonder if you ever have an unexpressed thought.
'W.
Msg #5810 Dated 21:21:08 06-12-91 5779 <--> 5816
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
If you have the dice stack equipment (4 square dice and fairly
stright sided cup) let me know and I won't bring any. I am going to
really have to pack "light" as will be on the road a full month and
don't want to wash sox and underwear too often....arrggghhh
Msg #5811 Dated 21:21:15 06-12-91 5794 <--> 5812
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Who gets $495?
Msg #5812 Dated 21:21:19 06-12-91 5712 <--> 5813
From: PETE BIRO
To: PETE BIRO
Re: WHAT IF
This is a test to see if this appends to msg No. 5712 (let me know
david) Tanks
Msg #5813 Dated 21:21:27 06-12-91 5782 <--> 5814
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I was there one night when his head hit the stage first.
Also, one day at a restaurant a waitress had spilled a plate of
spaghetti on the floor and had it nearly wiped up. Caldwell saw this
and timed his "walk over to visit us" and as he hit the area did the
flip! Talk about scaring the wee wee out of the waitress!!!!!!
HaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaR
Then one night I though two flips were better than one... Bev
Bergeron was in the audience with Caldwell, and I said, "Hey what if
you two walked on stage, like a duel, walked a few paces apart,
turned and both did the flip at the same time". They thought it was
hilarious. Joe Berg was MC and he said, "sure, let 'em do it"
Well, the audience didn't react at all. It died! Arrrghhhaaarrr
Msg #5814 Dated 21:21:42 06-12-91 5791 <--> 5817
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
When a waitress says, "We have Whipped Butter" I always ask, "Can I
go back in the kitchen and watch the chef whip some?"
.
Here's one for everybody. Listen next time a waitress brings your
order -- she will ALWAYS SAY, "HERE YA GO".... Count the times
and report in please. (this is for ALL).
Msg #5815 Dated 21:21:56 06-12-91
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: BULLS
OK THE GAME IS OVER FOR ANOTHER YEAR... DID YA NOTICE JACK NICHOLSON
IMMEDIATELY AT THE END BECOME A BULLS FAN.... TURNCOAT?
Msg #5816 Dated 21:34:31 06-12-91 5751 <--> 5877
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
I've always been fond of this type of subtlety. It does, however, have
a drawback: you can't use it more than once. This is not a problem,
per se, but it does mean that if you have need to do a Mexican Turnover
more than once within a routine you'll have to perfect a "straight"
version in addition to what you've just described.
By the way, you left out the significant contribution Crandall made to
the sleight: the right hand moves in with its card horizontally, but
then executes the "flipping" action by moving straight up. This is the
key to the sleight looking good.
Msg #5817 Dated 21:37:29 06-12-91 5787 <--> 5818
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Well, we clearly have very different concepts as to what constitutes
virtue.
Msg #5818 Dated 21:41:21 06-12-91 5805 <--> 5819
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Seriously? You can't? Er... Once again, Wayne, I'm having a
tremendous sense of deja vu here.
Msg #5819 Dated 21:38:11 06-12-91 5798 <--> 5820
From: MAX MAVEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
General Magic Organizations do not pay my bills. In an average year I
may lecture all of three times, if that. My books and marketed items do
not make a significant addition to my income (nor are they intended
to). When I work a convention -- once or twice a year -- my fee is
much, much less than what I charge for other work.
On the other hand, in addition to working conventions and/or lectures
for greatly reduced fees, I contribute material to the magazines that
are published by those organizations, for no recompense whatsoever. So,
who owes who in this equation?
If you wish to consider my statements elitist, go ahead -- by do tell,
why are they "misplaced"???
Msg #5820 Dated 21:42:48 06-12-91 5802 <--> 5821
From: MAX MAVEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I question whether the magic profession thrives on the interest of its
own amateurs. _Something_ clearly thrives on it, but is it the
profession? I think an argument can be made that the situation is
exactly opposite.
Here we go again.
Msg #5821 Dated 21:42:16 06-12-91 5806 <--> 5822
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Everytime I've attended a lecture, Caz and Leslie, among others, have
been at the door. They have asked to see membership cards.
Msg #5822 Dated 21:44:48 06-12-91 5811 <--> 5823
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The usual fees in the corporate training market are around that -
special lectures can often be up to $795 per person per day. "In
house" sessions, where the lecturer presents at the company site are
generally billed at rates around $3,000 per day and up.
Msg #5823 Dated 21:46:25 06-12-91 5812 <--> 5824
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Yep, it did! Only as an append instead of a reply, it became one of
those FROM: Pete Biro TO: Pete Biro things.
Msg #5824 Dated 21:47:56 06-12-91 5814 <--> 5825
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Gee... They don't say that in the resturants I go to. You sure it's
frequent? As frequent, say, as "Pardon, Monsieur"?
Msg #5825 Dated 21:51:02 06-12-91 5817 <--> 5830
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Perhaps.
Msg #5826 Dated 21:52:27 06-12-91 5749 <--> 5905
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DUKES DYEVERSION
Hmmmm... An interesting possibility. I really do wish that it would go
away. Maybe it is a challenge for magicians? To see if they can
vanish it?
Msg #5827 Dated 21:56:14 06-12-91 5755 <--> 5906
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
OK, you got me to back up to look... I clearly typed "nnn (where nnn is
a number to begin at)." The idea is that you put the REAL number you
want to begin at in place of the letters nnn.
Msg #5828 Dated 21:57:54 06-12-91 5759 <--> 5829
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TABLES
Yeah, seems to me that one more point size down and Jeff could send it
on microfilm. I had to get out my magnifier to transcribe it.
Seriously considered trying to scan it and retype it.
Msg #5829 Dated 21:58:56 06-12-91 5783 <--> 5907
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TABLES
I'm sure your copy will arrive soon. It is a very nice write-up. And,
of course, they are VERY NICE tables. Really looking forward to seeing
you.
Msg #5830 Dated 22:10:16 06-12-91 5818 <--> 5831
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Yes. Here too, David.
Perhaps we'd best leave it at that.
We can agree to disagree...although I'm sure that my position is the
sensible one. (Sometimes my Ego even ruffles MY feathers
ayne.
Msg #5831 Dated 22:14:41 06-12-91 5821 <--> 5835
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Again, glad to hear that.
'W.
Msg #5833 Dated 22:25:57 06-12-91
From: BRUCE SANDERCOCK
To: ALL
Re: WHAT IF?
Interesting thread! This really caught my attention since my interest
in Magic only began approx 2 years ago. My first convention was
Tannen's last year and I attended every lecture they held. I was
hooked. I didn't see anyone slow the tempo down with questions
indicating their lack of knowledge. I joined Sam and IBM and was
accepted at the Castle. I attended the Desert Seminar and will be
attending the upcoming SAM convention. I want to learn! I appreciated
David's comments and am happy I wasn't banned from the opportunity to
participate and enjoy...and hopefully someday the chance to contribute.
Msg #5834 Dated 22:37:30 06-12-91 -> 5836
From: BRUCE SANDERCOCK
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR UK?
I placed this subject up on the board two or three days ago asking
whether anyone knew of any happenings in Puerto Vallarta this weekend,
and the U.K. the following weekend.It's strange with all the
knowledable pros on board that no one has any suggestions or is willing
to suggest contacts in either location. What's even more surprising is
that the thread turned into a discussion of food. By the way, my wife
is Ukrainian and she's made pirogies all her life....no apples, but
potatoes, cheese, onions, rolled into dough.
Msg #5835 Dated 22:41:04 06-12-91 5830 <--> 5843
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
OK... To be continued as another time...
Msg #5836 Dated 22:42:39 06-12-91 5834 <--> 5908
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR UK?
I guess no-one knows what is going on in Mexico or the UK. Now, if
you'd been going to the Netherlands... They'd probably hold a MAGIC-NL
luncheon in your honor.
Does she boil the pirogies (one of several acceptable spellings) or
does she boil and then fry them? My wife is a pirogie fanatic, prefers
them fried. Takes me almost all day to make 'em, but using the wonton
skins cuts down a lot on the job. The potatoe ones are are favorites,
although they are also made with meat and there are some made with
saurkraut. Good pirogies ARE magic!
Msg #5837 Dated 23:00:34 06-12-91 -> 5879
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: P. GOLDSTEIN BIBLIOGRAPHY
Yesterday, in a personal message, I asked Max if he would upload a
bibliography of his published work. He has agreed, and it is now in
the files area as:
PG-BIBLI.TXT
A zipped (compressed) version, PG-BIBLI.ZIP is also available.
Those of you who are Max Maven/Phil Goldstein fans will welcome this
"goldmine" list of his publications.
I must admit that even though I knew the list was extensive, I had no
idea of the true size and scope.
Thank you, Max. Having this reference available is terrific!
Msg #5840 Dated 23:18:38 06-12-91 -> 5845
From: BRUCE SANDERCOCK
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR UK?
She boils them and then frys them in butter and onions.
Maybee we can exchange some next time we meet.
Msg #5842 Dated 23:42:02 06-12-91 5607 <--> 5856
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
No -- mental magic is, to me, mental effects presented as a kind of
magic or puzzle-type effect rather than as a dramatic reality. I think
it is indeed a viable form for many venues; it generally requires much
less of an attention span than more thoroughly plotted mentalism --
tends to be more visual, less abstract. For drinking crowds and glitz
venues it is probably a better choice -- but these are generalities.
A good performer could do Q&A in such venues and be very effective.
As to who is an excellent practitioner -- that comes down to personal
taste.
Msg #5843 Dated 23:47:10 06-12-91 5609 <--> 5844
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Doesn't mean things can't be made to change...
Msg #5844 Dated 23:47:49 06-12-91 5612 <--> 5846
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Tolerance for inexperience is one thing -- and I try to be as patient
and helpful as I can for those in that situation -- but tolerance of
bad habits and lack of commitment to magic as an art form is something
I see no reason to tolerate. Indicating that it is "okay" for someone
to do stuff others are doing does neither a service to them or to
magic.
Msg #5845 Dated 23:50:06 06-12-91 5840 <--> 5911
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR UK?
Oh, those sound PERFECT. I hate to continue this topic at the expense
of those who don't understand it's importance, but do you put sour
cream on 'em? We do.
Msg #5846 Dated 23:50:41 06-12-91 5627 <--> 5847
From: T A WATERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
It is a charming patter line -- but not if 800 magicians use it...
Msg #5847 Dated 23:52:08 06-12-91 5643 <--> 5848
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Some parts of your message are dropping out, Pete.
Msg #5848 Dated 23:52:26 06-12-91 5809 <--> 5849
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Yes, I do. They are too blisteringly accurate about the people I think
them about to ever utter them outloud.
asn't your response a leetle snitty? I think your remarks more than
merit my responses, which are rational, never personal, and carefully
thought out. Isn't the whole point of this board to express one's
thoughts?
Msg #5849 Dated 23:55:31 06-12-91 5683 <--> 5850
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
As it happens I have known Jade for a few years now -- and anyone
meeting her would immediately become aware of how seriously she
approaches her art. When you meet someone like that you WANT to help
them -- but that doesn't mean you should be happy about laying your
pearls in front of random bozos.
I have -- along with many magic writers, I'll bet -- had the
experience of seeing someone do an effect of mine in which they have
resolutely missed its whole point and reason for being. It is part of
a price you pay when you put your stuff out for the magical public, but
one can't always be entirely happy about it...
Msg #5850 Dated 0:04:55 06-13-91 5738 <--> 5851
From: T A WATERS
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I have to agree. Seems to me that a very good percentage of people in
most magical organizations have no real commitment to magic as an art;
they just "wanna play with tricks" and get out of the house for a
night. They may be nice for the lecturer who has stuff to sell -- but
they aren't magicians in any sense.
Msg #5851 Dated 23:55:42 06-12-91 5819 <--> 5852
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
My point was not that amateur magicians pay YOUR bills, though I can
see how you interpreted my response to David that way, but that they
pay the bills for many things -- the Castle for one, (pretty good
supposition they do, anyway). And they generally create an economic
climate that fosters the spread of ideas through books and periodicals
that would just, plain not exist if there weren't so many interested
amateurs. And if it weren't for those books ad magazines, I seriously
doubt the art would be in anywhere as near a fine shape as it is now...
How many professional magicians would be doing what they are doing, as
well as they are doing it, if not for that network of information?
As far as the misplaced elitist comments go, you are far from the primary
target of my remark. You hold what I consider to be fairly tough
positions on issues, and I certanily vehemently disagree with you on
many of your statements, but your contribution to the art and output
over the years gives you a inarguable legitimacy in those positions.
I do, however, consider elitist statements and thoughts misplaced when
they are not productive or thougt through. You tend to posit certain
situations, such as limiting or tiering membership in certain
organizations, without exploring the implications of such situations.
Certanily these suggesstions would benefit a tiny minority of these
orgs, to the benefit of very few. And I have yet to read a convincing
argument that this tiering would significantly help the art. Mostly,
it seems, it would make a tiny kernel of pros who are sick of dealing
with people less talented or informed than they are, happy.
To reitereate -- the comments about tiering membership and such are
misplaced, I believe, because the organizations we are all talking
about (with one exception), are not professional orgs! They're for all
magi. If you want a professional org, form a writer's guild, or some
org that has a professional criteria for entry.
Only partly related, I did recognize the probably economics of your mag
and book contributions, and think it is a wonderful thing. It is
obviouis to me that contributing to the art is high on your agenda --
I believe that this is in at least partial contradiction to some of
your harder line stances.
Msg #5852 Dated 0:08:01 06-13-91 5820 <--> 5853
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The passion, interest, and dollars of the amateurs create a market
where ideas can be more effiently and widely spread. This, in turn,
exposes more magi to other magi's ideas... To make a very gross
metaphor, The Gallo Pitch would probably not exist had the Hang Pien
Ching (sp) move not been widely available in print.
I just don't believe a "back room" network could disseminate ideas as
well or thoroughly.
Msg #5853 Dated 0:10:59 06-13-91 5843 <--> 5854
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
True. But you have to admit that this principle (imitation is the most
sincere form of flattery) seems to be the rule in MOST if not ALL other
performing arts...
Msg #5854 Dated 0:09:41 06-13-91 5786 <--> 5855
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
This is probably not a wise thing for me to say, as Castle Librarian --
but forgetting myself for the moment (ain't easy!), I am not so sure
that no lectures, few books and shops, ETC. would be such a bad thing
for magic as an art form. This was generally the state of things at
the turn of the century -- when magicians were major stars in show
business.
Msg #5855 Dated 0:12:04 06-13-91 5844 <--> 5858
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I understand, T A. But put yourself in a non-pro's shoes and read some
of yours and Wayne's comments. In those (my) shoes, they do caused
some cringing. Yes, you have made sacrifices for the art and are going
to have a different perspective... Just try to see it through another
pair of eyes, and you will at least empathize with some of my
responses, if not agree with.
Ciao.
Msg #5856 Dated 0:15:38 06-13-91 5842 <--> 5860
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
I'm just confused as to how the suspension of disbelief is engaged
here. I'll probably have to see an excellent practioner to "get it,"
y'know?
Msg #5858 Dated 0:16:54 06-13-91 5854 <--> 5859
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Magicians were major stars in show business, yes. But me thinks the
death of vaudeville had more to do with the change then not. AND,
magic was SUCH big business, with so much bucks in it for so many more
people, that the network of books and shops had a different place in
the market.
Msg #5859 Dated 0:18:28 06-13-91 5808 <--> 5862
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
You're right, my quote did read silly, but it was sloppy writing,
nothing more. The point I was attempting to get across was that there
really AREN'T certain establishments that are immune, as far as my
understanding goes... And certainly, if you allow these exceptions, you
are undermining the whole notion of equality...
I know for sure that the doctrine of men-only clubs is per se illegal.
Women may be a "protected class," I'm not sure. If this were so,
perhaps the rules would be less stringent for them. Perhaps not.
Basically, I considered your statemtn siginificantly inaccurate enough
to want to point up.
Msg #5860 Dated 0:21:27 06-13-91 5628 <--> 5861
From: T A WATERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
No -- it's time travel, of course...
Msg #5861 Dated 0:21:59 06-13-91 5646 <--> 5884
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
Pretty close.
Msg #5862 Dated 0:28:48 06-13-91 5853 <--> 5863
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Yes, and those who follow that rule in other arts do not deserve any
respect either...
Msg #5863 Dated 0:29:44 06-13-91 5855 <--> 5864
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Hardline response: no, I don't even empathize. Art forms are helped by
nurturing the talented and committed and creative, not by coddling the
incompetent.
Also -- most of the professional magic performed today is created by
professionals for professionals (at least in the area of stage work);
if every amateur on earth disappeared it would not affect them as you
seem to think. Amateurs become professionals, sometimes -- but I get
the distinct impression that you think magic couldn't exist without the
vast network of amateurs. It got along for fifty centuries without
them -- I think it could manage a few more, if it had to.
Msg #5864 Dated 0:33:50 06-13-91 5858 <--> 5865
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
There were a lot of other areas of show business that handily survived
the death of vaudeville; besides, the big stars were not necessarily on
the circuits, but rather trouping their own shows.
Msg #5865 Dated 0:45:14 06-13-91 5822 <--> 5866
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Consider the current scale of fees and admission prices for magic
lectures -- which have barely risen over the past twenty or more years
-- and it should indicate something about the value placed on such
events.
Msg #5866 Dated 0:47:55 06-13-91 5851 <--> 5868
From: MAX MAVEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I'm sorry my comments make you think they haven't been thought through;
they have, even though my conclusions are not the same as yours.
Your suggestion that amateur magicians "pay the bills" for the Magic
Castle is incorrect. The majority of the Castle's income is from the
non-magicians who make up the far larger percentage of those who come,
as well as paying the door charge and having dinner. The presence of
magicians -- both amateur and professional -- is not unimportant to the
Castle, as it creates a certain atmosphere which the first-time visitor
picks up on, thus defining the ambience of the place. But the financial
success of the Castle is not due to the magicians who attend.
Exploring the implications of tiered membership in magic organizations?
My pleasure. I think it would benefit magic over all to do so. Far from
preventing beginners from getting involved, it would provide a "tier"
that was geared accordingly, as well as offering higher tiers to strive
for. Instead, the current "all the same" mentality leads to the very
type of "lowest common denominator" problem that has been discussed on
this board of late. It gives the neophyte a mistaken self-assessment,
and pulls down the more advanced.
You mention that "with one exception" contemporary magic organizations
are not specifically professional groups. What is the exception? To my
knowledge, there is no pro organization in the United States. The
S.A.M. began as one, but shifted into a clone of the I.B.M. (which
began explicitly as an amateur group, to be an alternative to the
S.A.M.). There was an attempt to start a pro organization on the east
coast a few years ago, but I gather it failed. There are such groups in
Holland and Japan, and probably elsewhere, but which did you have in
mind?
By the way, someone from the NL board can certainly provide more
information on this, but I understand that there were quite a few
Dutch amateurs who were quite unhappy when the pro group in Holland was
established a year or so back.
Msg #5867 Dated 0:57:58 06-13-91 -> 5930
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MENTALISM SHOWS
Regarding your list, I'm curious as to which of the mentalists you
named you've had the opportunity to see working an actual show, as
opposed to a brief set at a convention or a television appearance.
Msg #5868 Dated 1:08:00 06-13-91 5864 <--> 5869
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
This raises an interesting question -- why magic did not survive the
way the others did. I don't think you seriously think there is any
connection to what we were talking about... But want to know your
thoughts.
Msg #5869 Dated 1:09:35 06-13-91 5866 <--> 5878
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Re the pro org -- I was, perhaps mistakenly, referring to the Magic
Circle in England. But realize I don't think I was right...
Anyway, I think you'll agree that we'll never agree, and that we don't
have to... As long as any of these discussions MIGHT shed some light
on things, I think they're valuable, and I am gladdened by the
fact that this exchange has been performed without undue ire or
diatribe...
In general I believe your comments are well thought-through. Your
prose and the bent of the effects you have published demonstrates
a laywer-like rigor for logic and structure. I suppose I feel
compelled to point up the flip-side of some of these discussions, as
the issue is far from clear, in my mind...
Anyway, I think we both understand each other, and I've no wish to
keep going around on this, mostly because I no longer believe I
am going to get to a gestalt-like understanding of some of these
philosophical issue... it did feel within my grasp at some point... I
Mostly I think there's an excellent opportunity to explore the
current state of magic, and that we have gotten WAY side-tracked
on this amateur/pro issue. I for one would love to agree to disagree
on that point, and solicit your further opinions on the matter. Surely
there are many more reasons and possibilites for the current state of
things.
Anyway, it's late...
s
Msg #5872 Dated 5:59:53 06-13-91
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: ALL
Re: L.A. VISIT
Had a great time in L.A. Got to meet some great people, see some
great magic, and, of course, bought a bunch of stuff. Started out the
Friday night by visiting the Castle. Best show of the evening was
Jerry Andrus - fantastic stuff. Wasn't sure how lay audience was going
to like it, but Jerry got great reactions with the audience I was in.
Spent most of the evening with Neil Lester of Cards by Martin. He
showed me some really excellent tricks and some of the gaffs and
gimmicks he is known for. I thought I had most of his items in one
form or another, but he showed me others - very clever items, which I
bought! He also showed me very good coin moves. Probably the best
thing he performed was a vanishing lit cigarette lighter. It's based
on some neat thinking that Neil's not sure how to write up. What's
more a lot of people after reading the explanation probably wouldn't
think it could be done.
Saturday brought the Castle Swap Meet. I was overwhelmed. There
was more stuff there than I had imagined. Fortunately I didn't buy too
much, just a few items I couldn't live without! It was amazing the
people there. Michael Ammar had a table that was always packed. I
couldn't get up there to say hi, but did wave at him on one pass. (I
think part of the reason the table was packed was because he had Hannah
there.) By the way his new book looks magnificent, context and overall
layout.
Other people there demoing and selling their wares included Kevin
James, Nicholas Night, Michael Jefferys, Gene Nielsen, Max Abrams,
Byron Walker, John Cannon, Mike Caveney, and lots of others including
our own Wayne Powers. As I happen to walk by his both I heard someone
say just make out the check to Wayne Powers. This was my introduction
to Wayne.
Didn't spend that much at the swap meet, I was a bit overwhelmed and
couldn't decide just what I needed. There was plenty of stuff for sale
and apparently some really good stuff and some real bargains, but I
think some of those things went early. Jim Patton showed me Joe Berg's
Magical Academy Arts award that he'd bought from Joe's son. It is bust
(is that the right word in this case?) of Vernon's hands from the
famous picture with a deck of cards in one hand and a cigar in the
other. It's a neat piece and one of only six made. John Cannon also
showed me some of the great buys he made, books that I didn't even know
existed.
Anyway went back to the Castle on Saturday night to catch the shows
I missed the previous night while talking to Neil. All the acts were
good. Meet up with Wayne and had a few "steam" beers. We spent some
time with Larry Jennings who showed us a couple of his always great
card tricks. Afterwards, we got together with Jerry Andrus and went
out for a bite to eat. Talked 'till 4 in the morning. One of the most
interesting people I've ever meet. Jerry thinks differently from
anyone I've ever meet. He shared with Wayne and I some of the most
unusual illusions and ideas. It was great fun. He even invited us up
to his house, something I'll definitely take him up on someday.
(continued)
Msg #5873 Dated 6:00:31 06-13-91 -> 5920
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: ALL
Re: L.A. VISIT
Went back to the Castle to get together with Max Abrams for Sunday
brunch, although I never did end up eating. While waiting on Max, got
to talking with Jim Patton. Jim another good guy and well read. He
also showed me two excellent card tricks along with explanations.
After Max came along we talked about Max's upcoming Annemann book. Max
brought along some of his notes which we discussed. It should be a
very interesting book.
On Monday I went over to Aladdin Books to visit with John Cannon.
He had a bunch of Karl Fulves publications and I was able to feel in a
bunch of the gaps in my collection.
As a side note went to Hermosa Beach Comedy and Magic Club Monday
night (it was about a mile from my hotel) to see Jay Leno. Leno was
his usual funny self.
Tuesday night it was back to the Castle as I again meet up with
Wayne and later in the evening my own partner Richard Hatch who had
been flown in for a gig. Fantastic line-up of performers that night.
Bob Kohler was doing close-up, a superb show. Bob is smooth, no
wonder he works a lot. In the palace was another great show: John
Gaughan, Tina, and Mike Caveney. John was showing his automatons and I
was afraid the lay audience might not like it, but it was nicely
received. As a matter of fact, I heard two ladies after the show
talking about one of the automatons, Zoe. They thought it was
absolutely fantastic and that, despite what John had said, there had to
be someone inside of it. Tina was great with her mop lady act and Mike
had me laughing so hard.
Richard and I spent some time talking with Stan Allen. Stan is the
right guy for Inside Magic as he as all the latest news. He also told
us about the format change of Inside Magic. Sounds like its going to
be a nice magazine.
I think we meet Richard Hart, but in all the running around didn't
really get to talk with him.
Made it back to on Thursday night to catch the acts I didn't get to
see on Tuesday. Had to catch Bob Kohler again. Man, I'm really
impressed with his act.
And finally on Friday again to the Castle for lunch. (The Larsens
have done magic a huge favor with that place. A huge thank you to all
of them for a great job and letting out-of-town magicians in.) Finally
got to meet David Lichtman, our sysop and benefactor. He was pretty
much exactly as Tabby had described him to me. Very knowledgeable too.
Also got to meet Bruce Sandercock, Manny Weltman, and Greg McKay.
Talked about plenty of things, magic and otherwise (NASA, flying
saucers, computers, etc.). Finally got to try the Castle chili - some
of the best I've ever had outside of Texas! Before leaving ran into
Wayne again who was having lunch with another small group. In that
group was Jonathan Winters whom Wayne was kind enough to introduce us
to. We chatted with him for a few minutes. He was a really nice and
friendly guy.
Overall it was one of my better weeks, even got a lot done at my
computer conference. Can't wait to go back!
Charlie
Msg #5874 Dated 6:01:28 06-13-91
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: ALL
Re: COIN GO
Anyone have one of Gene Devoe's "Coin Go" that they want to sell.
I'm looking for one. Thanks.
Charlie
Msg #5875 Dated 6:02:30 06-13-91 -> 5921
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: TOPPIT
Definitely try to find a tailor who has done one before. I took my
pattern from Ammar's book into one of the best tailors here in town.
After 4 trips and a final cost twice the original quote I finally gave
up. It works all right and is good enough for practice but I'd never
use it in public as it is still not quite right. (What's more, I used
a jacket I didn't like figuring that if the jacket was ruined no big
deal.) Oh, on the first trip, the tailor decided to some improvements
like get rid of the flap that you tuck into your pants!
I asked Michael about it and he recommended Ramon Galindo - who
other people on here have suggested. You might want to go ahead and
have him make a complete jacket for, he'll probably throw in a couple
of extra special pockets and such, and it'll be better overall.
It'll be worth it as it's a lot of fun. Sometimes I stand in front
of the mirror and practice the vanishing (uncased) deck of cards. It
just looks so neat!
Charlie
Msg #5877 Dated 7:15:45 06-13-91 5810 <--> 5922
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
I'll round up the dice stacking stuff b4 u come. I've got some more
of those Chicago ivory dice and can get a cup so don't worry about
packing too much junk, we'll take care of you here.
Msg #5878 Dated 7:15:50 06-13-91 5813 <--> 5880
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
That flip had to have been hard on the body. I heard him tell some
one several years back that his doctor had told him "no more flips"
and they talked him into doing it anyway which sorta bothered me.
Msg #5879 Dated 7:15:58 06-13-91 5837 <--> 5895
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P. GOLDSTEIN BIBLIOGRAPHY
Maybe Max is a lot more virtuous than you suspected???
Msg #5880 Dated 7:16:02 06-13-91 5846 <--> 5881
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
That's true. The first time I saw Anderson's paper tear I loved it.
After seeing it several times (hundreds) I started wondering about
why. I hope Gene sold lots of booklets.
Msg #5881 Dated 7:16:10 06-13-91 5848 <--> 5882
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
If we spent all our time patting each other on the back, I imagine
we'd all have sore hands and backs.
Msg #5882 Dated 7:16:16 06-13-91 5849 <--> 5883
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The oft misused quote re: casting ones pearls before swine actually
means don't bet your high card first.
Msg #5883 Dated 7:16:22 06-13-91 5854 <--> 5885
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Plus there were plenty of magic shops, magazines, etc around the turn
of the century also. Wasn't the S.A.M. started in the backroom of
Martinka's magic shop by pros, amateurs and a magic dealer?
Msg #5884 Dated 7:16:28 06-13-91 5860 <--> 6083
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: "TOO PERFECT"
That would be a good trick to travel through time. I'm trapped in
1938 and can't seem to find my way out.
Msg #5885 Dated 7:48:57 06-13-91 5747 <--> 5886
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Thanks, come from a place called Rural Nebraska,where if your car
breaks down outside of town, word gets back before you do, where if
you skip a church service, monday's mailbox is filled with get well
cards and where they ask "how are you" and MEAN IT!
Of course, you may have to put up with:
Leo Kottke (my favorite musician)
Dogs and dog training (my wife's favorite subject)
or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (my son's favorite EVERYTHING!)
David (the other one)
Msg #5886 Dated 7:49:13 06-13-91 5748 <--> 5887
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I agree, I was just surprised by how many "magicians" thought they
were seeing something NEW.
Msg #5887 Dated 7:25:38 06-13-91 5849 <--> 5888
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
It was my pleasure, on behalf of MAGIC!, to be the first person to
interview Jade following her winning the Gold Medal. I offered her as
an example because of the timeliness of the Linking Ring bio.
Tabby has a good point with his "college curriculum" analogy and,
indeed, there are classes that are so structured. Jim Kahlert, here in
Los Angeles, for example, offers a series of close-up magic classes.
He will not permit anyone, to the best of my knowledge, to take "Magic
II" unless they have taken "Magic I," etc. He is a very conscientious
teacher who has carefully structured his curriculum.
But membership in general magic groups is a far different environment.
Along with the many other things these groups may offer, they also do,
or should, provide a supportive environment for those who are less
adept at magic.
As with a great many people, I became interested in magic as a child.
I was never aware of the existence of magic groups, but I did spend a
lot of my youth in the local magic shop and in the public library.
Then, for many years, my activity in magic languished. When I lived in
Hollywood I kept looking up the hill at the Magic Castle and saying,
"Someday." Finally, I joined the Castle, originally as an Associate
Member. By being immersed in a magic oriented environment, I was
inspired to begin to attend lectures, classes, etc. I do not profess
to be good at magic, nor do I aspire to earn a living performing, but
my interest has led to what I hope is at least a small contribution to
the craft - the creation of MAGIC!(tm).
Had the environment been obscure, stuffy, hierarchical (in terms of
"general magic groups"), and uncomfortable, I doubt that I would have
bothered.
I have consistently stated that I have no problem with "elitism" and
with "inner circles." But they fill a far different niche. As a
matter of fact, what does puzzle me is the seeming insistance around
here that these are somehow unique to magic. I work in computing. Do
you think that we don't have our own "inner circles?" That there
aren't networks and secrets that are known to, and shared by, only a
few? Do you (and I should point out that the "you" here is generic)
think that there are no "exams" or qualifiers in computing? It is the
SAME. I'm sure that some around here will shake their heads and say,
"No, he doesn't know what magic is all about." I'll state it again - it
is the SAME. And I suspect that is true of photography, etc.
But each of these fields also has its "hobbyists," be they amatuer or
semi-pro. The front door to any art or craft which needs to recruit
people based soley on skill, talent, and a desire to learn (as opposed
to a craft which only selects people on the basis of an "old boy
network") needs to be as open and welcoming as possible. If it is
closed it will never attract the talent in the first place.
Regardless of the triumphs of the great shows of the past, without the
general membership organizations, without the open attitude, without
encouragement from "the top," would, today, be a dead art. Does that
mean that you should "cast your pearls before random bozos" (an
enjoyable line, by the way)? No, I think not. But as to providing
support, encouragement, and a welcoming environment, yes. Somewhere
out there is likely the next T A Waters or the next Jade. If the
door isn't kept open, they are not likely to walk in.
Msg #5888 Dated 8:16:36 06-13-91 5854 <--> 5889
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
We'd better make it clear that each of us is not representing our
respective organizations - you as the Castle Librarian and me as the
sysop of MAGIC! - in this discussion. And I agree, the picture of you
forgetting yourself is a complex one - where, for example, would you
have left yourself...
But I fail to see how magic as an art form and being major stars in
show business have much to do with each other! As a matter of fact, it
seems to me that the two are antithetical concepts. Restricting magic,
magic lore, and magic secrets to a few folks who made big bucks hardly
seems an advance of the art.
I do, however, have a deep appreciation of nostalgia. Remember, I come
from a place where the apex of culture has gone with the wind.
Msg #5889 Dated 8:20:24 06-13-91 5848 <--> 5890
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Is that really the "whole point" of this board? Hmmmm....
Your categorization of your responses, which my "remarks more than
merit" seems to me to be irrational, personal and not very well thought
out.
'W.
Msg #5890 Dated 8:26:24 06-13-91 5863 <--> 5891
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
This continuing concept of "amateur" versus "professional" really
bothers me. While it is a convenient "hook" on which to hang a concept
of something that I think is expressed as "dedication to the art," it
is not an appropriate hook for such a concept. Professional merely
means "derives a substantial portion of their income from it." Most
"professionals" are MORE OFFENSIVE than "amateurs" are. Look in the
phone book of any city - Los Angeles included. "Professional" is
largely made up of poor-talent bumbling incompetents who buy some
tricks at the local magic store, get a clown suit or a tux and charge
for doing the same stuff again and again. Some time back, we had a
"professional" on here who was very angry at General Mills for
including major portions of his act as premiums in ceral boxes! You
think he, and a lot of others like him, care about magic as an art
form?
Serious amateurs and serious professionals have much more in common
than do "all professionals" or "all amateurs." Why don't we come up
with a useful substitute word for the concept we really seem to be
after here? How about "serei" for the serious individuals, and
"bumblers" for the others? I'm open to other suggestions for
appropriate terms with one exception - please do not use "hackers" for
the non-adept as it has specific and sometimes honored status as a
different class of people in computing.
Msg #5891 Dated 8:29:29 06-13-91 5855 <--> 5892
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Unless you consider yourself to be a casually curious magic dilletante,
my comments have no relevance to your shoes. I have no axe to grind
with dedicated amateur magicians. The more knowledgeable one is, the
more one realizes the limitations of his or her knowledge. It's the
ill-informed "Generic Magician" (in Eugene Burger's words) who
considers himself to be "A Magician" and, therefore, the professional
equal of Copperfield...THAT'S the attitude that really sizzles my
bacon! If that causes you to "do some cringing"...well...get used to
it. I'm not about to change my philosophy to please you.
'Wayne.
Msg #5892 Dated 8:42:28 06-13-91 5865 <--> 5894
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Most magic lectures today are commercial - the lecturer brings lecture
notes, books, props, etc. and sells them at the lecture. Discussing
whether this should be the case is a different topic, but the majority
of lecturers to magic groups earn more from such sales than from the
lecture fee.
The business lecture field does have a parallel - goups such as Fred
Pryor and CareerTrack offer one day self-improvement seminars for $49
to $99 and sell books, tapes, etc. in the back of the room.
The business lectures designed to give someone a new skill will often
cost $495 to $795 per day or more and are attended by far fewer people.
In magic, there are similar events - the new George Newmann book, for
example, is a limited edition of 250 and is $165 per copy.
Msg #5894 Dated 8:46:56 06-13-91 5859 <--> 5896
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
What you say you "know for sure" is simply not accurate. Private clubs
can restrict membership howsoever they desire. When a private club
becomes large enough and/or becomes a "professional organization" they
must open their doors to all who are qualified. For the record, once
again, I firmly agree with Max that the Magic Circle's gender
restriction is abhorrent and should be revised immediately.
Basically, I considered your statements significantly
inaccurate....certainly enough to want to "return the favor" and point
it out.
Perhaps the newly discovered knowledge that some things you think you
"know for sure" are simply untrue will open up your thinking in a
number of areas. If so, congratulations.
'W.
Msg #5895 Dated 9:01:25 06-13-91 5879 <--> 5910
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: P. GOLDSTEIN BIBLIOGRAPHY
I never stated that Max was anything but virtuous. Max took exception
to my definition of virtue, that's all. Sheesh, Tabby, don't get me
kicked off of MAGIC!
Msg #5896 Dated 9:03:57 06-13-91 5894 <--> 5899
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I believe that a "private club" that has 400 or more members and/or
that serves meals cannot be gender restricted.
Msg #5897 Dated 8:55:52 06-13-91
From: MANNY WELTMAN
To: ALL
Re: FOR SALE A SET OF LINKING
Many years ago. (And I mean many) A lamp manufacturer made up (I think)
three sets of hand made Linking Rings. One set went to Dai Vernon, one
set to me .. and if there was another set, I don't know who got them.
Anyway, I found my set the other day, and as I do not perform any more,
I am putting them up for sale. They are appoximately 26 inches in
diameter. You have the two and three linking rings. Two single rings
and the main ring. As they are hand made I have no idea what their
worth is. If you would like them, give me a bid.
Msg #5899 Dated 9:17:59 06-13-91 5890 <--> 5900
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
We agree on this one, David.
See my post quoting Burger's phrase, "Generic Magicians."
'W.
Msg #5900 Dated 9:19:38 06-13-91 5896 <--> 5902
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Don't tell me....tell Evan....he knew "for sure" that your statement is
untrue.
'W.
Msg #5902 Dated 9:31:12 06-13-91 5822 <--> 5903
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Good money. I wuz jus' kiddin' when I sed what I sed...
-
Msg #5903 Dated 9:31:19 06-13-91 5823 <--> 5904
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Reminds me of an old radio show tag line... "Where the Elite come to
Meet and Greet Pete..."
Anybody remember the real wording? And the show?
Msg #5904 Dated 9:31:28 06-13-91 5824 <--> 5912
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
OK, so you hang where they say "Y'all come back now ya hear!"
Here's an important one for you to learn.
Le Quenta para mi Amigo, por favor....
(The Bill for My Friend, Please)
Msg #5905 Dated 9:31:38 06-13-91 5826 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DUKES DYEVERSION
Call Copperfield... I bet he can't do it (at least not as good as he
did the Statue of Lib....
Msg #5906 Dated 9:31:44 06-13-91 5827 <--> 5939
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
I knew that.... CHEEEZ, cantcha take a JOKE....
Msg #5907 Dated 9:31:48 06-13-91 5828 <--> 5927
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TABLES
I finally read it with a pair of magnifying glasses scotch taped to
my reading glasses.
Msg #5908 Dated 9:31:53 06-13-91 5834 <--> 5909
From: PETE BIRO
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR UK?
OK... I just looked in my Mexico file and only found a photo of
myself standing at a "walk up" Tequila Window at a joing down an
alley in Peurta Vallarta.
Don't know of any Magic activities there at all.
However, on London you can visit the Magic Circle meetings, they
meet every Monday night. I just don't know where the new clubroom
is. Go by Davenport's Magic Shop (it is at a subway station) and I
am sure Betty can tell you where they meet. Bobby Bernard is prob-
ably in the phone book, he give great lessons in coin magic. Alan
Alan is very knowledgable and he has a shop as well. Ron MacMillan
has a great magic shop on Clerkenwell Lane... buy my old memory
glands are slow this morning... look em up in the phone book.
I will see if I can find some addesses for you next time I log on.
Pat Page is a great and knowledgable guy as well. Seabrooke is here
in the USA at teh moment so he can't help. Good luck. Oh, great
Italian food on Great Windmill St. About a 5 story high, narrow
building.
Msg #5909 Dated 9:32:13 06-13-91 5836 <--> 5941
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR UK?
Ok Doktor Frog.... you better freeze some and bringem to IBM, or NO
MAGIC! SESSION!!!
Msg #5910 Dated 9:32:18 06-13-91 5837 <--> 5942
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P. GOLDSTEIN BIBLIOGRAPHY
Are the prices included?
Msg #5911 Dated 9:32:23 06-13-91 5840 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR UK?
Sounds great, but hold the Onions!
Msg #5912 Dated 9:32:27 06-13-91 5844 <--> 5913
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I agree with your Tolerance philosophy. If someone is REALLY interest
ed (same in photo biz) and not a pain in the a**, one doesn't mind
helping them out... as long as some progress is being made. But for
a lame attempt and disregard for improvement happens... ADIOS...
There is a case like that now with an act that "seems" to know
the Magic is not up to the level it should be, but the guy is a
very good saleseman and gets jobs... saying "I don't care what the
magicians think"... however, another person that has seen the act
stated (openly at last month's OMC Meeting) "the guy was awful, he
blew a couple of tricks and said 'OK, folks, so now you know how it
is done' and kept right on going" aaarrrggghhh...!!!
Msg #5913 Dated 9:32:43 06-13-91 5847 <--> 5914
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I hope not too many parts are dropping out... it looks like when I
back space or correct something it causes a screw up... so i will
just leave the mistakes in for awhile...
T A, are you using IMP!? (probably not much need for those close
to the MAGIC! World Headquarters need to as the phone charges are
much less than us outa towners).
Msg #5914 Dated 9:32:53 06-13-91 5852 <--> 5915
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The "so called" back room network becomes made up of people that are
either very knowledgable and have something to PUT IN, or are just
really nice people that RECEIVE, but don't abuse the information.
.
Without peers to bounce ideas to, and get feedback from, not much in
the way of progress would be seen.
.
Example: Copperfield has a huge network of inside friends that feed
him and teach him the good stuff. Maven, Weber, Caveney, Fechner,
et al, in addition to Don Wayne, who I understand is a full-time
employee.
Msg #5915 Dated 9:33:08 06-13-91 5854 <--> 5916
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
T A -- you beat me to it... in the BIG TIME days of Live Show Biz,
the Magic Shows were the BIGGEST SHOWS to hit town. Thurston, Keller,
Blackstone, etc. were touring to packed houses... Liepzig, Frakson,
Jarrow, Van Hoven, etc., were big time vodvil stars.
Van Hoven was the highest paid single act of his time, doing his
"Dippy Mad Magician" act he was headling in 1917 and (according to
my dad who was on the same shows with him) was making over $ 1,000.00
a week! (2 lines above should read HEADLINING).
Msg #5916 Dated 9:33:21 06-13-91 5855 <--> 5917
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Maybe the "so called" amateur reference here should be more like
"knowledgable FANS" -- I always refer to the bulk of those that
attend the conventions as "Magilaymen" -- they love magic, know a
little about it, fiddle with a few self-working tricks, consider
themselves amateurs and to the convention producer (like me) are
very necessary and are our best fans. Without them we would still
be doing magic for a few friends.
Thankfully they come in huge quantities to our convention (IBM) and
allow us to hire TOP acts and bring them here from all over the
world. There are two things that are good about this. They get to see
a variety of performers, but even better *I GET TO SEE A VARIETY OF
ACTS THAT I WANT TO SEE*
Msg #5917 Dated 9:33:37 06-13-91 5858 <--> 5918
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
One of the things that killed vaudeville was the movie. And do you
know who the first people to tour with movies were?
.
They were Magicians... read your history.
Msg #5918 Dated 9:33:45 06-13-91 5859 <--> 5919
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I will probably be hammered on for this... but I have two major
beliefs.
(Nothing to do with magic)
1: Women, Men, Dogs, Cats... all are living beings AND ARE EQUALS.
.
2: If men (or women) want a men (or women) only club that is their
decision. IT IS OK, in my book. Another group should respect thier
feelings as well. If you want privacy (in any form) you have a right
to it.
Msg #5919 Dated 9:33:59 06-13-91 5869 <--> 5923
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The Magic Circle (in London) has the lowest standards anywhere. You
send in your money and you get a membership. The pro's in England
that I used to hang out with NEVER went to the meetings.
.
A good example of THEIR "tiered" membership was MY ELECTION to the
highest level. I know it was political, and hypocrite that I am, I
accepted it!
Msg #5920 Dated 9:34:10 06-13-91 5873 <--> 5928
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: L.A. VISIT
Gee, who needs a magic convention? Glad to hear you had a great time
out here on the left coast!
Msg #5921 Dated 9:34:15 06-13-91 5875 <--> 6009
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: TOPPIT
Try a cat! Davenport used to vanish his cat with his "poacher's bag"
(that's what it was before Harlold Comden made it into TOPIT.
Msg #5922 Dated 9:34:21 06-13-91 5877 <--> 6082
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR U.K.?
(possible repeat msg) TRY A CAT. That's what Gus Davenport used to
vanish in his "poacher's bag" (that's what Harold Comden used to
develop what is now called a TOPIT).
Msg #5923 Dated 9:34:27 06-13-91 5878 <--> 5924
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Mike was ok until his weight creeped up to 340! I actually have a
picture of Caldwell where he is built just like Copperfield (from
the neck down)!
Msg #5924 Dated 9:34:34 06-13-91 5880 <--> 5925
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Anderson's paper tear is one of the best visual effects of all time.
It is based on a few other ideas, but his "final handling, etc" is
the best. Next best is Pat Page's 10-second tear (you can prepare it
in 10 seconds) altho Alan Shaxon's variant is improved way to do it.
Msg #5925 Dated 10:27:31 06-13-91 5903 <--> 5926
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Duffy's Tavern...
(Answering Phone) "Duffy's Tavern, where the elite meet to eat. Archie
the manager speakin'...Duffy ain't here."
'W.
Msg #5926 Dated 10:31:04 06-13-91 5918 <--> 5931
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
The law agrees with you, Pete. It's when the club becomes a
professional network that the problems arise...exclusion from a social
club is one thing...but excusion from business is indeed another.
I do believe that both men and women need a place to be amongst
themselves. I like to hang out with "the guys" and do "guy" things,
(whatever they might be), every now and then. I don't think that's
sexist in the negative sense of the word. I believe women require a
similar experience with their female friends. Men and women are indeed
equal. That does not mean, however, that men and women are the same.
They are not. I celebrate the difference, in fact.
'Wayne.
Msg #5927 Dated 10:40:22 06-13-91 5907 <--> 5940
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TABLES
Odd...scotch usually INTERFERES with MY vision!
(I guess you're supposed to drink it...not put it in your eyes.)
'W.
Msg #5928 Dated 10:42:06 06-13-91 5920 <--> 5935
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: L.A. VISIT
So, why don't you learn by Charlie's fine example and get your *&# down
here?!
'W.
Msg #5929 Dated 10:47:27 06-13-91 -> 6189
From: MARVIN STERN
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: WEEKEND
Maybe we'll see you for coffee in front of Kellys, or just ride to the
end of the boardwalk, towards the wedge, and holler.
Msg #5930 Dated 10:49:47 06-13-91 5867 <--> 6148
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: MENTALISM SHOWS
MAX: Can't for some dumb reason find my message with my list. But Koran
I saw many times at conventions, the It's Magic Show and as you knowj
wrote his lecture notes. Kreskin at College Campus shows. Falkenstein
at many, many shows Castle, conventions etc. You all over, Le Sorcery,
etc., Geller at some public appearances in San Francisco, Fogel at a
couple of shows in England and US Convention...
The list was based on MY PERCEPTION of the way the Audiences reacted.
Msg #5931 Dated 10:52:41 06-13-91 5925 <--> 5932
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I knew there would be a "professional" on board... heheheheheh... I
thought they were coming to meet me? Bad hearing on one side... har.
Was Duffy "ever there?"
Msg #5932 Dated 10:53:53 06-13-91 5926 <--> 5933
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Yeah, I know, I have been to the Bohemian Club many, many times and
they DO NOT ALLOW BUSINESS congting (tho it happens by
osmosis).
line two should read DON NOT ALLOW BUSINESS CONTACTING (tho it happens
by osmosis) they have a slogan that discourages it, something like
"Weaving Spiders dont' weave your webs here" (about as accurate as
Duffy's Tavern... I just HAVE NO MEMORY -- tht's why every show I do is
different and ad lib (along a general theme)... bye for now.
Msg #5933 Dated 10:57:11 06-13-91 5899 <--> 5934
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Saw your post. Knew you were heading in the same direction. I don't
care all that much for Burger's term though.
Msg #5934 Dated 10:58:19 06-13-91 5900 <--> 5936
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I think you have added a bit of unintentional "spin" to Evan's
statement.
Msg #5935 Dated 10:56:21 06-13-91 5928 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: L.A. VISIT
I have no money (well a yard is on the way)... Actually I travel so
much I can't handle it... Also I have done that kind of trip to the
CAstle hundreds of times and have become blase I guess.
I used to live a few blocks from Comedy Magic Club in Hermosa (that is
why I worked there so often) but actually visited the Castle MORE
before I moved to SoCal than when I lived there. It was like Disneyland
to me, I only went there when a visitor from out of town wanted to go.
I will be there for lunch on the Sunday after I get back from europe.
Which is 21 July (20 Juyly at L.A. Colisium all day and til midnite
shooting auto race pix).
He won't rememeber it but I broke Winters up at an antique show one
time as we both were looking over an old dental cabinet. I forget the
line i threw but he rolled with laffter.
Seriously, when I get out from unde two mortgages, alimony (temporary)
and back to reality, I will probably hang out more. My car is
permanently stuck in passing gear (don't have the 900 to fix it) so
instead of driving to L.A. and sticking ab out like I want to , I have
to fly in and out. Adios. Got to find more stuff to sell.
Msg #5936 Dated 11:00:50 06-13-91 5904 <--> 5938
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Ah! Muchas gracias, mi Amigo!
Msg #5938 Dated 11:04:51 06-13-91 5926 <--> 5944
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Wayne and Pete - As I expected, this discussion is drifting off into
general social policy. I'd prefer us to keep our discussion within the
MAGIC! context. Thanks.
Msg #5939 Dated 11:08:24 06-13-91 5906 <--> 5986
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
With you, Pete, sometimes it is hard to tell. I won't even mention
your trying to include a hang-up string in a message...
Msg #5940 Dated 11:09:22 06-13-91 5907 <--> 5987
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TABLES
I did the same thing - in front of my contact lenses! Hmmmm...
old-fashioned "Triplet Lens?"
Msg #5941 Dated 11:11:00 06-13-91 5909 <--> 5954
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR UK?
You'll have to wait 'til you are in L.A. and I have a day to prepare
'em. No way I can get my session and the pirogies done in time for
IBM.
Msg #5942 Dated 11:12:01 06-13-91 5910 <--> 5947
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P. GOLDSTEIN BIBLIOGRAPHY
Nope. When you look at the list you will see that price is no object.
Msg #5944 Dated 11:43:14 06-13-91 5881 <--> 5945
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Heh? What's this in response to?
Msg #5945 Dated 11:46:02 06-13-91 5887 <--> 5949
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Well said.
Msg #5946 Dated 11:34:11 06-13-91 -> 5959
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: MESSAGES
HEAVY-HEAVY. The messages of late are very heavy and deep.
Whatever happened to having FUN.
Think I'll forget about this stuff and just sit in the sun at Balboa,
and hopefully Jerry will stop by and we can look at the boats on the
bay and the tans with string suits.
Sure would like to see more magic and things like that on the board.
You guys are so good with the printed wo, that I think you scare off a
lot of MAGIC members who would like to contribute, but are reluctant to
do so. Who wants to make a comment and then have them shoved down
their throats. We're all big boys and can take care of ourselves, but
who needs it. Maybe it's because I'm busy during the day, that I'm in
a better mood.
Don't want to start a whole new thing/string, and I trust Wayne and
Evan will still talk to me. But give us a break.
Dave, still friends??
Msg #5947 Dated 11:51:13 06-13-91 5895 <--> 5964
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P. GOLDSTEIN BIBLIOGRAPHY
You kidding! How could I get YOU kicked off MAGIC!? You is the kicker
offer if there ever wuz 1. Max, I believe, in his own diabolical way
helps us all stay closer to the flame, Where would we all be without
Max, Pete, TA, Michael, and the other consumate pros who have devoted
their lives to the pursuance of the ART of Magic? Us dedicated
amateurs - regardless of how much we love magic - owe them all a
debt of gratitude for the years they spent "starving" and for their
willingness to respond to our various ravings and partially informed
mutterings. Now, don't YOU kick ME off MAGIC! Plleeeeeaaaaaassssseee!
Msg #5949 Dated 11:51:30 06-13-91 5914 <--> 5950
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
To Copperfield's list, add Bill Smith whom I understand came up with
the Card On Train Window Effect. I also understand that someone here
on MAGIC! got quite close to the methodology!!! YOU!!
Msg #5950 Dated 11:51:36 06-13-91 5918 <--> 5951
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
On this I agree 1000%!
Msg #5951 Dated 11:51:40 06-13-91 5923 <--> 5952
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
When I first met Mike he was getting portly (like me). It impressed
me that a big guy could take such abuse and still laff about it.
Msg #5952 Dated 11:51:45 06-13-91 5924 <--> 5953
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I did Anderson's paper tear a few times and was thrilled with the
method and the handling; however, I never felt comfortable doing it
couldn't "improve" it and generally didn't feel good about it so I
dropped it after a few times. The audiences loved it however. What a
great concept.
Msg #5953 Dated 11:51:52 06-13-91 5890 <--> 5955
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I like that "serei" term and would also not want to see "insinserei"
classed as "hackers" as I used to be one of them too. Now I'm a
"whacker", what'er that means.
Msg #5954 Dated 11:51:59 06-13-91 5908 <--> 5988
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR UK?
When my sister was at Wroxton College in Dover years ago, I asked her
to drop by a magic shop in London and pick up some magic mags and
send em over to me. She sent me a complete file (as of then) of
Pabular and appologized as it was all she could find. Looks like you
fixed Bruce up real good for his England trip. Wish I was going!!
Msg #5955 Dated 11:46:57 06-13-91 5889 <--> 5956
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Wayne, what is your problem? When have I attacked you personally?
Which of my remarks strike you as irrational? If you don't want to
be disagreed with, talk to the mirror. Otherwise, your opinions
are fair game to disagree with. Implying that by disagreeing with, I'm
being irrational, is strange. I have done nothing but correct you on
two points -- one a point of law, which you clearly were not
particularly well-informed about, secondly, I commented on the self-
congratulatory nature of your elitists comments, fair game in my book.
Wayne, you are strangely bringing this down to a personal level. Why?
Additionally, yes, I believe the point of the BBS is to hear each
other's thoughts. This is clear from your contribution, as well as
mine. The point of the board is not to air thoughts that only lie in
agreement with YOU. If you do not wish to be effectively disagreed
with, challenged, and called to order on facts and logic, then to not
participate. If you find my disagreements irrational, deal with those,
not attack me for having unexpressed thoughts.
Very strange, Wayne. Re-examine my comments, and I do not think you
will find the personal, irrational attacks you claim. And when you
discover their absence, reflect on your own pronouncements to me.
Smooches & Cuddles,
Evan
Msg #5956 Dated 11:55:51 06-13-91 5891 <--> 5957
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I find it interesting how a group of people, grouped together in a
forum because of common interest, immediately turn on themselves and
try to differentiate, put things into a hierarchical order. This is
the destructive side of elitism, the unproductive, energy-wasting
process that has people trying to differentiate themselves, instead of
find common ground.
Your comments have relevance to my shoes, whether I consider myself a
dilletante, or dedicated, because I have an excess of compassion for
all who struggle at different stages in any art. For the outsider, for
the underdog. At no time have I praised incompetence or plagerism. At
not time has ANYONE on this board taken the attitude that their level
of skill puts them on a level with Copperfield. So why are you
spending so much time on this?
I am not asking you to change your philosophy to please me, I merely
call people on what I think are erroneous or illogical statements. I
would much rather respond to statements that I find offensive than
cringe helplessly.
So, no, I will not get used to cringing. While I am a participant
here, I will respond responsibly. I am sure you will continue to do
the same.
Msg #5957 Dated 12:03:25 06-13-91 5894 <--> 5958
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
A Supreme Court decision of the last ten years regarded a longstansing
private club with no outright business purposes as unable to continue
an "all-male" policiy, because the business connections available
within the walls of the club put women at a disadvantage. So the
distinction between private club and professional org became hazy, and
thus the law is not in exactly the shape you perceive.
You seem to have a problem with people who disagree with you. How long
ago did this start?
Msg #5958 Dated 12:07:23 06-13-91 5916 <--> 5960
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
At least you have some appreciation for a group of people who have been
slandered left and right!
Msg #5959 Dated 12:12:27 06-13-91 5946 <--> 5963
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: MESSAGES
Actually, Marvin, I agree with you. I promise to try and keep things
light. Perhaps David should DEMAND a particular discussion be put to
rest!
Nice hearing from you. Am still waiting for my money.
Msg #5960 Dated 12:12:47 06-13-91 5931 <--> 5961
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I forgot to include the punch, Pete....
Here it is in its entirety:
ARCHIE (Answering Phone): Duffy's Tavern, where the elite meet to
eat...Archie, the manager, speakin'...Duffy ain't here.
Oh, hello, Duffy!
'W.
Msg #5961 Dated 12:16:12 06-13-91 5938 <--> 5962
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Agreed.
Msg #5962 Dated 12:21:12 06-13-91 5945 <--> 5965
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Thank you!
Msg #5963 Dated 12:24:50 06-13-91 5946 <--> 5979
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: MESSAGES
I think you have said something very important, Marvin. Thank you.
Maybe we should delare it "fun week" here on MAGIC! A chance to relax
and get ready for the several weeks of magic conventions. Later we can
get serious again.
Msg #5964 Dated 12:27:10 06-13-91 5947 <--> 5990
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: P. GOLDSTEIN BIBLIOGRAPHY
OK, you can stay on for another 30-days, Tabby.
Msg #5965 Dated 12:18:42 06-13-91 5955 <--> 5966
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Perhaps you have no idea what results from your fingers' cavalier dance
across the keyboard. Your descriptive words such as "snitty" and
"elitist" are personal attacks. Re-examine YOUR comments.
I don't mind being "effectively disagreed with." You, however have not
even approached any sort of effectiveness in your disagreeable display.
When you can, as you put it, "call" me "to order on facts and logic"...
let me know. You haven't done so yet.
'W.
Msg #5966 Dated 12:29:05 06-13-91 5956 <--> 5967
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I'm glad you respond to statements you find offensive. We have that in
common, which is the very reason I, unhappily, find myself responding
to your statements here.
'W.
Msg #5967 Dated 12:30:06 06-13-91 5965 <--> 5968
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I'm about to send this same message to Evan. I'd really appreciate it
if you would both take a breather. Even just if it is the pause
between rounds. Thanks.
Msg #5968 Dated 12:31:18 06-13-91 5966 <--> 5970
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I've just sent a message to Wayne. I'd appreciate it if both of you
would just take a breather. Even if it is just a pause between rounds.
Thanks.
Msg #5970 Dated 12:36:59 06-13-91 5957 <--> 5975
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Once again, Evan...you contradict yourself. For a writer, why is ist
so difficult for you to communicate clearly? Please re-read your
message number 5859 which contradicts your message number 5957.
.
I am annoyed to be forced to constantly respond to your public insults.
In the interest of this board and its members, I suggest you continue
your tirade, if you must, in the form of PRIVATE messages, which I can
ignore. Thank you.
'W.
Msg #5971 Dated 12:42:27 06-13-91 -> 5972
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: HOPEFULLY...
I have, hopefully, posted my last message on the "What If" thread.
May it rest in pieces.
'Wayne.
Msg #5972 Dated 12:51:50 06-13-91 5971 <--> 5980
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: HOPEFULLY...
Thank you. I think Marvin has stated it pretty well. We've all worked
hard at MAGIC! lately - and a LOT of good stuff has resulted. But it is
time for us all to take a break - a metaphorical day at the beach.
Msg #5973 Dated 13:15:03 06-13-91 5242 <-
From: DARRELL MURPHY
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SECTIONS II
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
Msg #5975 Dated 13:52:27 06-13-91 5965 <--> 5976
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
No comment.
Msg #5976 Dated 13:52:44 06-13-91 5966 <--> 5977
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
No comment.
Msg #5977 Dated 13:53:05 06-13-91 5970 <--> 5982
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
No insults intended, Waynes. Beyond that, no comment.
Msg #5979 Dated 13:58:31 06-13-91 5959 <--> 5989
From: MARVIN STERN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: MESSAGES
I'm waiting for the statute of limitations to run out.
Msg #5980 Dated 14:04:07 06-13-91 5972 <--> 6022
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: HOPEFULLY...
Wholeheartedly agreed.
My thanks for your indulgence.
'Wayne.
Msg #5982 Dated 14:06:56 06-13-91 5975 <--> 5983
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Ibid.
Msg #5983 Dated 14:07:06 06-13-91 5976 <--> 5984
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Ibid.
Msg #5984 Dated 14:07:23 06-13-91 5977 <--> 5985
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Ditto here.
Msg #5985 Dated 14:08:12 06-13-91 5938 <--> 5991
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
All those that I was commenting on Men, Women, Dogs, Cats, etc., are
secretly palming the three of clubs for a grand finish... but, it
seems you don't want to know the outcome... so there...
Msg #5986 Dated 14:08:19 06-13-91 5939 <--> 6023
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TEAPOT MELTDOWN
Anybody that thinks I know what I am doing is nuttier than I am.
I just got a call from an outfit that owes me almost 11K, and they sa
y, "we can't pay your bill, didn't you read the fine print on the
back of the PO that says 'no copies of expense receipts, originals
only' -- SO NOW I GOTTA DIG OUT A MONTHS STUFF AND HOPE IT IS ALL
FINDABLE... that means the thirty to forty-five days it takes to
pay starts all over again when they get the receipts!
You think you have seen an AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH,
stick your head out the window... in ten minutes it will be heard
round the world.
Only good thing is I will Federal Express the receipts to them
COLLECT!
HAR
Msg #5987 Dated 14:08:34 06-13-91 5940 <--> 6024
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TABLES
ONE FOR EACH EYE?
Msg #5988 Dated 14:08:38 06-13-91 5941 <--> 6025
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC IN MEXICO OR UK?
Bring the recipe to El Tabmans
Msg #5989 Dated 14:08:42 06-13-91 5946 <--> 6008
From: PETE BIRO
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: MESSAGES
Take a card, any card.
Msg #5990 Dated 14:08:46 06-13-91 5947 <--> 6033
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: P. GOLDSTEIN BIBLIOGRAPHY
I used to call him Philmax. Will dl his list some day. Now am tryuing
to figger out how to bring my computer to Europe and work on thier
higher voltage. Looking for a converter I used to have. Hah, I used
to have everything.
Msg #5991 Dated 14:08:53 06-13-91 5949 <--> 5992
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I refuse to add bill smith. You just did! Yo, Bill is one of the good
uns! All DC's duck stuff comes from Smith. Who worked awhile as a
thread puller for Blacktone on the Floating Light bulb and Dancing
handkerchief.
Msg #5992 Dated 14:09:01 06-13-91 5950 <--> 5993
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I don't know what you agree to, as I haven't figured out how to find
the first message. Maybe we could use a one or two word preface to
the answers when using IMp so we know what the question was.?
Msg #5993 Dated 14:09:08 06-13-91 5952 <--> 5994
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Have you seen Goldfinger (Jack Vaughn) do the Anderson Tear to the
music "The Stripper"? Great variant.
I also thought of a great bit doing a straight jacket escape to the
same music, but Steve Baker had same idea and did it first. I still
have my jacket.
My other idea (no one has done and I submit here for the record that
it IS MY IDEA) is... You finish the escape, and take a bow.
You are holding the jacket that took 3 to 4 minutes to GET YOU INTO,
with a couple of people tying you in, then about 2 minutes to get out
of it... As you take your bows, you go offstage and are out of sight
maybe 10 seconds and WHEN YOU REAPPEAR YOU ARE BACK IN THE JACKET!
Msg #5994 Dated 14:09:23 06-13-91 5958 <--> 5995
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WHAT IF
But not up and down!
Msg #5995 Dated 14:09:27 06-13-91 5960 <--> 5996
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: WHAT IF
I knew you were as fallible as I.... Har.... One other great old
radio show I used to listen to when I was in the U.S. Army, stationed
in Germany was "Lum and Abner"... great old stuff.
Msg #5996 Dated 14:09:35 06-13-91 5967 <--> 5999
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WHAT IF
OK, I got it. We all meet at the Castle, cut cards, the loser goes
out and ties a strap from their car to the pig, drives off into the
sunset and gets to keep it in memory of this week's discussions of
stuff I have read, but keep forgetting what it is all about.
Maybe an improved double lift?
Or, as Dick Koornwinder once said, "Hallo"....
Yes, I am now taking Gibberish.... as Seabrooke once said,
"Why Do Farts Smell? For the benefit of the deaf!"
Msg #5997 Dated 14:09:54 06-13-91
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC!
I just figured out why nobody is posting any magic on here. They don't
know any!
-?
Msg #5999 Dated 14:15:40 06-13-91 5995 <--> 6001
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHAT IF
Ahhh...for another visit to the ol' "Jot 'em Down Store!"
'W.
--- END OF MAGIC-32 ---