MAGIC! - 48
The following was compiled from the magician's message section of
MAGIC!(tm). MAGIC! is an electronic communications system for
magicians. It may be accessed from any personal computer with a
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material herein should be treated as confidentially as other
magic information. Copyright 1991 by MAGIC!, All rights reserved.
Msg #13500 Dated 18:03:44 08-10-91 13479 <--> 13506
From: MAX MAVEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: TRIX
The evening after the statue was unveiled I was at a dinner party at
the Tomsonis, who had attended the unveiling; I'd not yet seen it
myself. Pam Thompson was outraged, saying, "It's supposed to be Lance
Burton, but it looks like a pig in a cape." I observed, "Well, lots of
women have refered to Lance as a pig in a cape."
Msg #13501 Dated 18:05:06 08-10-91 13488 <--> 13504
From: MAX MAVEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
They showed some video clips of Robin Boltman in performance on last
night's ABC news. His magic will do nothing to aid the image of the
art.
Again, I laud his bravery; it just has nothing to do with magic.
I could (but won't) list many names of top-flight magicians who have
also been drug dealers, pederasts, and so on. Conversely, some of the
worst magic I have seen has been performed by clergymen.
The point is that the performance of magic (or the execution of any
other art) is not necessarily linked to a person's outside activities.
Three cheers for Boltman's courageous heroism, but I sincerely hope we
won't be seeing him do his mediocre magic as a result of that.
Msg #13502 Dated 18:29:08 08-10-91 -> 13503
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: ALL
Re: DAVID ROTH
Just got back from the David Roth lecture at UCLA. It ran about 1 1/2
hours over - I could've stayed at least two more! The guy is amazing!
His moves are so smooth & so seamless that you're convinced this is the
real thing. He seems like a truly nice guy - didn't even get too
annoyed by all the coins dropping in the room! I know this isn't
exactly a full report, but I was just so impressed that it's tough to
describe most of what he did. It was also great meeting Burton the
Bizarre and, indirectly, Darryl Murphy. Hope both of you will be at the
Castle manana.
Msg #13503 Dated 18:45:14 08-10-91 13502 <--> 13535
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Sounds like it was a good magical afternoon, Cindy. Thank you for your
brief report - hopefully, once you recover, we'll here more.
Msg #13506 Dated 19:14:45 08-10-91 13500 <--> 13507
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: TRIX
Wait a minute, Max. What are you doing? That's funny! Don't do that.
Please, I can't stand it!
Msg #13507 Dated 20:16:35 08-10-91 13480 <--> 13508
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TRIX
The Kudzu story is WHERE THE SUMMER ENDS by Karl Edward Wagner; it is
in the Dark Forces antho edited by Kirby McCauley -- Viking hardback
1980, Bantam pb 1981. You should be able to find it at Dangerous
Visions on Ventura (call and check first) or other used bookstores.
Msg #13508 Dated 20:25:01 08-10-91 13500 <--> 13517
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: TRIX
Perhaps, if we remove the cape from the statue, women will think it's
supposed to be Richard Diamond.
'W.
Msg #13509 Dated 20:27:07 08-10-91 13501 <--> 13512
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
I understand your point. If your analysis of Mr. Boltman's act is
correct, (and I have no reason to doubt that it is), perhaps he will
also be courageous enough to realize that his act needs work.
(...and perhaps Tabby will win that 20 million dollar lottery jackpot.)
Whew...I think I just earned a lifetime membership to the Optimists
Club!
'W.
Msg #13510 Dated 20:41:55 08-10-91 -> 13519
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: MAGIC! BIZ
.
Just as I have a feeling that Bill Larsen or the Magic Castle
Board of Directors wouldn't turn someone magician totally away if
their presence wouldn't otherwise truly benefit the Magic Castle
and vice versa; I'm wondering if there couldn't be some way to
underwrite or otherwise reduce the MAGIC! subscription fee, much
like the IBM and SAM have student programs, etc., for certain
otherwise qualified magicians. I know you've been giving this
some though, ave you come up with any ideas.
.
Msg #13511 Dated 20:44:56 08-10-91 -> 13538
From: BRUCE SANDERCOCK
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: ROTH LECTURE
Good seeing you once again at the Roth lecture. Sorry I did'nt have
more of a chance to exchange ring and string
methods with you. Maybee will run into you at either the Marriott or
Sheraton to catch Johnny "Ace".
Msg #13512 Dated 20:42:54 08-10-91 13509 <--> 13515
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
Robin Boltman vanished a hankie last night on the ABC News and
unfortunately Tabby didn't win the 20 mil in Maryland or the 25 mil in
Virginia tonight. But I'm sure his brief moment in the spotlight has
shed some positive light on magicians as people.
.
Maybe next week. I've been wheeling numbers for a couple of months and
hit four tonight. Only a few hundred maybe depending on how many had
four of the six numbers.
Msg #13513 Dated 21:11:46 08-10-91 -> 13521
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: ALL
Re: P & T
There is a review with Penn and Teller in the
new REFLEX magazine. Reflex is a
music magazine with a large circulation and
fancies itself "Alternative".
They really thrashed the Magic Castle. Here are
some excerpts:
PENN:The reality is, the whole flap with
magicians was started by us. ....At
this point no magician had ever said a word
against us......I thought ,we should
just start pissing off magicians.
PENN: The Castle is just a, bar, and we don't
go to bars. It's a bar with a
bunch of old, alcoholic magicians. Actually,
saying that the Castle was full of
old alcoholic magicians was the last thing that
got us into trouble with them.
REFLEX: Is it like the Friars?
PENN: No, not at all. The Friars are really a
little bit exclusive. This was
like a whorehouse decor, a couple of good
tricks, and a lot of drunks at the
bar.
TELLER: You left out the bad restaurant part.
REFLEX: And they wanted to take this prime gig
away from you?
PENN: Well no....It costs like $5,000 to join
and corporations buy
memberships......Now if you play there, if you
do a week, they say, "We'll take
$50.00 out of your salary and you can be a
lifetime member." So every magician
that plays there gets this little form, they
pay you $50.00 less, and say, just
sign here and your a member. We said, NO, we
don't like to belong to
clubs.......Every other person that they paid
became a member. They got a
petition together with quite a few names on it
to throw us out of the Magic
Castle, and they discovered that we weren't
members.
On another page is an excerpt of the show "LIVE
AT FIVE" is which the P & T/
Copperfield "Conflict" was quoted. While I
feel this whole thing was staged,
many of my layman friends did not when I asked
them about it. This part makes
David look not too good as they play it from P
& T's side.
The one thing that's really starting to piss me
off is the constant quotes about
the Magic Castle having a petition to bar them
as members. I have asked Bill a
few others about this and and no one I spoke
with has a clue about a so called
petition. The Castle has better things to do
than worry about Penn and Teller
BUT, legally speaking, I think maybe they
should start. While it makes good
press for P & T, It really makes the Castle
look bad. As does the quotes about
corporate sponsors. There are NO corporate
members of the Magic Castle. Only
individuals. These are outright lies and I
would be curious to hear if in fact
anyone else heard of a petition?
Msg #13517 Dated 21:25:22 08-10-91 13506 <--> 13518
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TRIX
Tab - you read like a bear bein' tickled!
Msg #13518 Dated 21:26:13 08-10-91 13507 <--> 13523
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: TRIX
Thanks, will do. Know right where Dangerous Visions is. Appreciate
the citation.
Msg #13519 Dated 21:27:10 08-10-91 13510 <--> 13524
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAGIC! BIZ
Yes, if someone is qualified and can't afford the MAGIC! subscription
fee, or needs to make some payment arrangements, they can certainly
drop me a private note. The Advisory Board is, I'm sure, of the same
mind, in such cases, as the other boards are. No-one should be denied
access to MAGIC! because of their financial situation. Thank you for
reminding me of the possibility.
Msg #13520 Dated 21:31:17 08-10-91 -> 13525
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: ALL
Re: HARKEY PLUG
I just got the Harkey book and found a variety
of magic from stuff I can do up to some
hardcore for the big boys. It's of high quality
and does not seem like a "flash in the pan" far
from it. The reason I said this is because it
seems the negative comments made earlier were
more directed at the author himself than at the
book and that seemed a bit unfair.
Msg #13521 Dated 21:32:12 08-10-91 13513 <--> 13539
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: P & T
P & T are getting more desperate for attention. They are looking for
a target who WILL sue them so that they can get free publicity.
Interestingly enough, they have begun to admit that the created the
"magicians hate us" hype at the same time. Probably part of a
strategy. There is basically no way they can be sued by a "greasy
rabbit puller," so they are turning up the heat on Copperfield, S&R and
the Castle. A response will help them get back into the limelight.
Msg #13523 Dated 22:20:52 08-10-91 13517 <--> 13528
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TRIX
He got me again. I was waiting for the psychological twist to the
iron pig unveiling and wasn't prepared for the punch line..
Msg #13524 Dated 22:20:56 08-10-91 13519 <--> 13529
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MAGIC! BIZ
No problem from the east side of the adv board. My goals are similar
to yours in most respects and truly want this to be a benefit to
magic as a whole and to its' members at large. If we can guarantee
the perpetuity of MAGIC! then perhaps we can leave a continuous
thread leading the interested to 1990. I don't want to get heavy
but it feels good to be a part of something good. For the community
at large (and I speak in the true sense of the magic community) this
is a good thing. You are to be congratulated for carrying out your
vision and the subscribers are to be congratulated for lending
their support.
.
Scrunch, snap, #@$$#%, creak, flatten.
.
That was the sound of me breaking up that damn soapbox.
Msg #13525 Dated 22:21:09 08-10-91 13520 <--> 13598
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: HARKEY PLUG
I really liked Harkey's ads in Genii and have been tempted to get
the book myself. So it's a good one? Maybe I'll take the plunge,
thanks. Is it at the dealers, or do you have to get it direct?
Msg #13528 Dated 22:29:19 08-10-91 13523 <--> 13553
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TRIX
I figure Max is like a jewel - lotsa facets. Most of the time, we see
the one on top and it sparkels because of the others. But sometimes
the hand of fate moves and you get to see the other facets directly.
Msg #13529 Dated 22:30:59 08-10-91 13524 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAGIC! BIZ
Thank you for your kind thoughts. I think that the necessary move to
subscriptions will make MAGIC! stronger.
Msg #13531 Dated 22:41:43 08-10-91 13475 <--> 13533
From: MANNY WELTMAN
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: NEW AGE MAGIC
A point well taken.
Msg #13532 Dated 23:02:56 08-10-91 13446 <--> 13721
From: JERRY BURTON
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
I will try to probe a little next time it happens. I had never thought
about it in that light. Maybe that's the way to learn from bad magic?
Assuming it wasn't just bad technical work, it could give insights
into why a person didn't do very well, and how non-magicians perceive
magic poorly done and why.
Msg #13533 Dated 23:03:02 08-10-91 13448 <--> 13560
From: JERRY BURTON
To: MANNY WELTMAN (X)
Re: NEW AGE MAGIC
I was in a New Age Bookstore (they used to be occult and the meta-
physical, but now they are New Age - same stuff different bag) and
saw a book on Sai Baba. I read the preface that talked about the
young miracle worker and how he became the 'spiritual' leader he is
today. Sounded a bit like the second coming of Christ.
.
The cover photo shows him poouring what looks like sand into the hand
of a follower. Could it be what was left of the guy's diamond ring ?
Msg #13535 Dated 23:03:26 08-10-91 13503 <--> 13536
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Roth was his usual smooth self. He lectured about seven hours ! After
each effect he would go through any moves that anyone wanted to see
again.
.
I had to laugh to myself on one point. He showed how you could classic
palm 4 coins and release them one-by-one. In his hands its looks
easy and truly magical. The giggle came, when several poeple wanted
him to do it again, and again, and .. LIKE IT WAS SOMETHING THEY
COULD DO OR WOULD DO ! I'm sure they had no idea how much time
Roth had spent perfecting it, and I hope no one there will try to do
it, unless they are willing to put in the incredible amount of time
it would take to DO IT RIGHT. I would bet there was no one in the
room that would put in the time, I just hope they don't do it badly.
.
For me the best was last. He demo-ed his latest O-Rotho box (a cleverly
gaffed Okito box). I have a set which I bought last year. He has added
a
few subtle moves which help with the timing. If any of you do Okito, I
strongly recommend the Roth set. It has three boxes, a standard, a
gaffed,
and a Boston box. As a coin worker you can perform miracles.
Msg #13536 Dated 23:07:45 08-10-91 13535 <--> 13554
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Thanks for the report, Jerry. It sounds like it was a great day of
magic. More magic is at hand -- Sunday's MAGIC! BRUNCH FOR TOMMY
WONDER!
Msg #13538 Dated 23:30:36 08-10-91 13511 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: ROTH LECTURE
Let me know when you might be going down to the Marriot, I drop by
2 or 3 times a month as I have a class in the area on Weds nights.
.
I just learned the ring thing I showed you and I need a lot more
practice on the 2nd move, the first one is really strong and easy.
The 2nd is weaker but harder - it is necessary to show the ring is
really on the string, and since it looks identical to the first move
it makes the first one seem even more impossible.
Msg #13539 Dated 23:30:44 08-10-91 13521 <--> 13543
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
In Persia they have a saying, "javabe ablahan kamooshest", which
means ANSWER FOOLS WITH SILENCE ! The best way to respond to them is
not support them on their next tour. I saw a lot of magicians at the
Wiltern for the Refrigerator Tour, and if they are getting really
desperate, and start biting the magic hands that feed them, perhaps
we should just silently withdraw our support.
If silence isn't the answer how about a P&T T-Shirt
burned in effigy hanging from the super-pig. Maybe have TV coverage.
Msg #13540 Dated 23:58:28 08-10-91 13359 <--> 13552
From: STAN LAKE
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
Nice thoughts Michael. So far we have enough material to start a new
book on this effect alone!
Msg #13541 Dated 0:00:21 08-11-91 13369 <--> 13556
From: STAN LAKE
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
Most of the effects I am good at I don't have a name for or at least
not a meaningful one. For instance I saw one effect where a person on
stage chose a card and he was supposed to telepathically beam it out to
the audience who didn't know what card he chose. While the spectator
is concentrating, unbeknownst to him an assistant behind him holds up
a huge duplicate of the card forced on him so the whole audience knows
what the chosen card is. So of course they all shout out the name of
the card on cue and the spectator on stage is dazed with amazement.
Since I work alone for the most part, I rigged up a fire helmet with
three different sets of blinking multicolored lights and eight
different sound effects and antennae the spectator wears to help him
project his card out to the audience. The chosen card automatically
flips into view on top of the helmet like a mousetrap spring and once
again, the spectator is amazed that the audience "got" his thought of
card. Now- what do you call that trick? Most of what I do on stage
are bits and pieces of ideas glued together, but not to permanently, it
is always evolving and like a primordial mass it has a long ways to go!
There are a few stock type items I do with my own story and patter like
the Proffesors Nightmare and Don Alan's egg can routine. I've gotten
a lot of mileage out of those. I've posted on here at various times
most of my close-up ideas like the coin that vanishes and appears under
your watch, my copper silver routine and some card effects. I've been
working on one more and although it's my own idea I'm sure it's been
done by many others. What the effect is you have someone choose a
card, let's say it's a King. You deal it on the table and say you will
try to cut to the other three Kings. You shuffle and cut the cards
three times and each time you find a King and deal it face down onto
the table with the others. At the end you say "In poker, 4 Kings is a
very good hand but do you know what beats 4 Kings?" You then turn over
the four cards which are now four Aces. I'm pretty tired tonight but
if anyone wants I can post the workings of it tomorrow. I want to make
sure I get plenty of rest to enjoy brunch with Tommy Wonder and guests!
Msg #13543 Dated 0:57:17 08-11-91 13513 <--> 13555
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: P & T
Just as damaging as the inaccuracies you focused on, I assume the
$5,000 figure is equally vexing -- potentially turning away potential
members, magician and otherwise.
I hope that someone in the Castle office is composing a quick,
surgically effective response letter, that will pinpoint these
inaccuracies and make P&T seem silly.
Msg #13545 Dated 1:10:27 08-11-91 13409 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: BARRY GITELSON (X)
Re: HAWAII
thanks for kind words... FISM in 3 years.
Msg #13546 Dated 1:10:31 08-11-91 13428 <--> 13938
From: PETE BIRO
To: LYNN HEALY (X)
Re: "STAMP"
Methinks one in the same. Ididn't recobanize him, when I saw him,
and we wuz in the same show together for awhile... Les Sorcery!
Msg #13547 Dated 1:10:36 08-11-91 13438 <--> 13548
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: CASTLE TRIP
Lennert Green will be at DMS!!!!!!
Msg #13548 Dated 1:10:40 08-11-91 13438 <--> 13866
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: CASTLE TRIP
Rene Lavant will be at DMS!!!!!!!!!!!
Msg #13549 Dated 1:10:44 08-11-91 13441 <--> 13708
From: PETE BIRO
To: STEVEN KRAMER (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Great guy, Mike Tannen.... thanks for the story!
Msg #13551 Dated 1:10:53 08-11-91 13447 <--> 13562
From: PETE BIRO
To: RANDY LUND (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
Karrell Fox should have been excellent...as he has been...but his
is not in the best of health...so ...lets hope he soon feels
better and is back up to what we all know he can be.
The "small box that unfolds and girl gets in" is probably a RIP OFF
of Stienmeyer's Origami Box!!!!!!
Msg #13552 Dated 1:11:01 08-11-91 13461 <--> 13568
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
Are you asking about the Ireland 50 cent trick coin dropper?
It was a simple tube open top and bottom. A clip on the side near
the top allowedit to be hung on a belt. At the bottom a rubber
O Ring was clipped with part of it over the open end. A little
round filing made an indent to locate the O Ring. I can fax you
a detail sketch. ring was slipped off end to letcoins drop out.
EZ and killer to do....
Msg #13553 Dated 1:11:11 08-11-91 13500 <--> 13715
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: TRIX
Touche el Maxo... I like the Pic but not where it is!!! Art need
to be total, environment, etc. Bit tired, just back from several
hundred dusty miles in Brothel Country (and no time to stop)!
Msg #13554 Dated 1:11:18 08-11-91 13503 <--> 13559
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Just buy the Roth Book....
Msg #13555 Dated 1:11:22 08-11-91 13513 <--> 13557
From: PETE BIRO
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: P & T
I think the Magic Castle Prez (and Board) MUST WRITE A REBUTTAL
letter to the Editor! FAX it ASAP to make their deadline!!!
Msg #13556 Dated 1:11:27 08-11-91 13541 <--> 13561
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
I would say the nameof the trick with the firehelmet can be
whatever YOU WANT... Sounds original and very goodto me!!! Sorr
y I can'ttype... very tiredtonite...zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Msg #13557 Dated 1:18:59 08-11-91 13539 <--> 13558
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: P & T
I have a private bet with someone over what will happen as P&T get
increasingly desperate. It isn't pretty and I don't want to make it
public.
Msg #13558 Dated 1:21:34 08-11-91 13555 <--> 13563
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
I think a letter should clear up the inacuracies but should NOT be a
"rebuttal."
Msg #13559 Dated 1:27:26 08-11-91 13554 <--> 13577
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Argh! (tm - Biro) - Max says buy the Garndner book, you say buy the
Roth book. Howcum no-body gives me nothin'? No birthday gifts, no
nothin'. Argh! (tm - Biro).
Msg #13560 Dated 2:20:33 08-11-91 13533 <--> 13719
From: MANNY WELTMAN
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: NEW AGE MAGIC
Hay! Sai Baba's not all bad. He turned that diamond ring innto a
cookie. This man wants only to feed the poor!
Msg #13561 Dated 4:37:18 08-11-91 13541 <--> 13571
From: T A WATERS
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
The basic premise of the helmet routine, but not the helmet itself, is
the LITTLE WONDER THOUGHT PROJECTOR by Clayton Rawson, which appeared
in Hugard's Magic Monthly, I believe. The 'projector' was an
eggbeater, and its case opened up to signal the card to the audience
(if I am remembering it right).
The card effect has indeed been done by others, for about 40 years --
there's a whole book on it called MATCHING THE CARDS, part of that
Supreme Teach-In series, and there are many other routines in print.
Msg #13562 Dated 4:51:17 08-11-91 13465 <--> 13564
From: RANDY LUND
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
I didn't because 1 they were not in program by name and 2 the
announcing was not loud in a noisy room and I couldn't hear. I'll
check. Randy
Msg #13563 Dated 4:54:23 08-11-91 13557 <--> 13575
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
Y'know, one can like or dislike Penn & Teller (I like them), and one
can approve or disapprove of the interview that was quoted here (I
strongly disapprove) -- but what on earth gives you the impression that
they are getting "increasingly desperate"? They have had more national
television in the past six months than any other magic act in the U.S.,
they have a show running in New York which has gotten far more positive
press than negative... so, upon what do you base this impression, other
than wishful thinking?
Msg #13564 Dated 4:53:16 08-11-91 13483 <--> 13565
From: RANDY LUND
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
I'll try...see day 4 report. This kid got shafted. The act did build
slow, but that was inperfect keeping with the theme of the act. under
the set up you would not expect a small child to pick up a magic wand
and instantly be the next Copperfield. Little thing that he didn't
understand happened first, then a little more complicated and a little
more all the time to the amazement of the kid. Yes it wasn't a high
voltage cannon shooting streames and large fand of flags appearing set
to rock music piece (which is what won) but it was perfectly matched to
the premise and showed more creative talent than all the other acts,
whic were clones of the winner, combined. I think MAx was right about
the magiclumpen, just like camera clubs the DO NOT LIKE original
thought.....Randy
Msg #13565 Dated 5:00:19 08-11-91 13499 <--> 13566
From: RANDY LUND
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
You are correct, what I called Behind the scenes is actually Back Stage
with the Magician. And no, I wasn't equating coherency with overt
story line, but like you said commenting on a lack thereof in any form
by many magic acts.
Msg #13566 Dated 5:03:03 08-11-91 13551 <--> 13580
From: RANDY LUND
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
Marilyn picked up on his health as well. I did not mention it in the
review, because I couldn't be certain, but he did seem to be having
trouble breathing and moving around very much. I know his reputation
is excellent, but unfortunately the lecture I seen did not live up to
that. He also had problems as MC that required him to sit down
occasionally and be less active than the other MC's.
.
I haven't seen Stienmeyer's box so I can't say
Msg #13567 Dated 5:07:16 08-11-91 -> 13572
From: RANDY LUND
To: ALL
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
ABBOTTS - Day 4
.
Well, this is the last day of Abbotts and the last day of these
reports. I did get one piece of bad news. The talent contest act
I really liked failed to even place in the competition.
.
The morning started off for us with the Magic Ministers session
hosted by Dr. Jerry Burgess. As Marilyn and I do most of our
magic as part of the ministry of our church this session was of
special interest. Unfortunately Dr. Burgess' part of the
program, which was most of it, was little more than a gospel
advertisement for Abbotts props.
.
Todays lecture was by Vito Lupo and was easily the best lecture
of the four presented at Abbotts. Vito presented a good mix of
technical magic (how to of tricks) and theory and performance
practice. There was very little hawking of wares for sale and
the presentation was both informative and humorous. Well
Done!
.
We did not attend the benefit matinee. We had to return to
Kalamazoo for the afternoon to attend to some business prior to
leaving on vacation. Monday we leave for Charlevoix, a resort
town in northern Michigan for a week at a resort. Cups &
Balls, our boat is going to and the whole family is looking
forward to a week of boating.
.
The evening show opened with a special tribute to Karrel Fox,
who has been on the show at Abbotts each year for 50 years.
Gene Anderson presented Karrel with a proclamation by Gov.
Engler making 8/10/91 Karrel Fox Day in MI as well as a quilt
that commemorated his achievement. Karrel got a long
standing ovation from the crowd as he began to MC the real
show.
.
First up, Cheney and Mills, a juggling act from Wisconsin that
combined humor with super juggling. This was followed by
Senor Rai and Tillie. Senor Rai's magic wasn't that
outstanding, but the Liberace of Magic did bring a sense of
humor and satire to the performance which made it one of the
better pieces of entertainment of the show. He did a dove to big
cat bit, but his big cat was a dog dressed up as a big cat. Tillie,
his long suffering assistant provided counterpoint.
.
Marvyn and Carrol Roy were up next and Mr. Electric failed to
electrify the crowd. The performance was marred by several
technical miscues, a flashed zombie, a production of several
lights at the finger tips, half of which didn't (light that is) and
a couple of obvious flashes on productions and disappearances.
Also, with the exception of the light bulb theme the show
followed the format as 90% of the acts. Done to music etc. etc.
.
This was followed by Jeff Hobson from Detroit. Not much
magic, and egg bag and a torn and restored tissue that resulted
in a streamer from the mouth, but the humor had me in
doubled over. My understanding is that Hobson used to do
straight magic, but switched to comedy with some magic thrown
in.
.
Franz Harary & Co. closed out the convention with a short
illusion show that was very original. It was marred by some
problems with the sound system (but then most acts were,
Abbotts could use a good sound system and sound man at the
show) but the effects were original and well presented. One in
particular was a clear acrylic tube on an open framework stand.
It is shown empty a yellow ball that just fits is rolled back and
forth between assistant and magi. Assistant get in tube which
is the covered and the ball is again rolled from end to end.
.
Well that ends my coverage of the Abbotts get together, #54 I
understand. I'll have some well slept on afterthoughts when I
get back from vacation.
.
Bye for week
Randy
Msg #13568 Dated 7:51:14 08-11-91 13552 <--> 13581
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
Fax me a sketch of the 50 cent dropper when you get a chance. Thanx.
Msg #13570 Dated 8:43:14 08-11-91 -> 13590
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: ALL
Re: DAVID ROTH
Okay, a capsule version of his lecture(s). He started out with a
wonderful _Coins Across_ using a shell, which cuts out about half of
those awkward sleights you usually have to do. It seemed like all you
needed to have was an immaculate classic palm.
Next he did somthing he calls th Fugitive Coins - Show spec half dollar
& quarter. Put in spec's hands, have him put his hands behind his back
& put qtr in one, half in other. Have him bring his hands, closed, in
front & tell him to drop half in your hand. Have him open other hand &
show him he still has the half, he gave you the qtr! Neat little
Copper& Silver-like routine, but using sizes instead of colors. Very
nice. Next, a neat little two coin routine, where you see him put 2
coins in left hand (one he visibly tosses from right to left) but ends
up with both in right hand. Very clean - no false moves.
Did a Slydini-esque one coin flurry, & a 3-ball routine based on a
Marlo/Vernon routine(s). Ended part 1 by showing a cute little
gimmicked "erased coin" with some neat patter about using an eraser to
polish his coins and wearing the finish off them.
Second half held a very unique 4-coin assembly, a Wild-Card routine
using coins instead of cards, an updated version of "Fast & Loose", the
Okito-type boxes Jerry mentioned, and some advice & effects with some
more advanced sleights. Also a neat little twist to the old Coin in the
Bottle where he shows that he has "turned the bottles inside-out" to
retrieve the coin - and shows you that the label of the bottle is now
mounted inside the bottle instead of outside. I could go into more
detail on all this stuff, but the lecture was really so packed with
information that I would take up four or five screens and never get to
the Castle for brunch!
Msg #13571 Dated 9:01:17 08-11-91 13561 <--> 13578
From: STAN LAKE
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
So My Kings or whatever to Aces has been done before? Doesn't really
suprise me though it's such a simple plot and premise. It sure would
be easier to come up with something NEW if I already knew what had been
invented. I keep grinding away and getting excited about an idea only
to find it was done six minutes after cards were invented!
Msg #13572 Dated 9:06:51 08-11-91 13567 <--> 13589
From: STAN LAKE
To: RANDY LUND (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Thanks very much for taking the time to post all of your reports. We
all enjoyed knowing what was going on via your timely reviews. Have a
restful vacation!
Msg #13574 Dated 9:36:52 08-11-91 -> 13583
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: NOT TEN CARD TRIX
My message was not for list of Ten Card tricks... Ten (any) tricks yu
feel you do exceptionally well and can fool folks with without
fasing, getting caught etc. and if you need aid ask for it... bye, in
arush....
Msg #13575 Dated 9:48:50 08-11-91 13557 <--> 13576
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
I doubt if they are desperate. I think they were making answers
that they feel the readers of that particular magazine want to hear.
Msg #13576 Dated 9:48:55 08-11-91 13558 <--> 13579
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
Right... NO REBUTTAL just the facts on the Castle, its aim and what
it costs, etc.
Msg #13577 Dated 9:49:00 08-11-91 13559 <--> 13585
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Don't buy any books. Go into a cave or a darkened room with no
electrical devices. Have a stack of money, coins, etc. and some
cards. Give yourself a year. Invent your own stuff! OK? And it is
low cost.
Msg #13578 Dated 9:49:07 08-11-91 13561 <--> 13607
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
I have even seen a version where a GIANT backdrop comes down and
shows the card... there are many subtle handlings, but yes T A, it
is the original from Clayton Rawson (a smart guy!!) that started
it all. I have used many, including Sid Lorraine's THE EYES HAVE IT.
Msg #13579 Dated 9:49:14 08-11-91 13563 <--> 13584
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: P & T
Agreed, Max... P&T are by no means desperate... they are good!
Msg #13580 Dated 9:49:18 08-11-91 13566 <--> 13587
From: PETE BIRO
To: RANDY LUND (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
Karrell had a heart attack not too long ago, and is diebetic!!!
Msg #13581 Dated 9:49:22 08-11-91 13568 <--> 13944
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
Will do tonite bro
Msg #13583 Dated 10:02:55 08-11-91 13574 <--> 13611
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: NOT TEN CARD TRIX
Morning, Biro-san. Are you using this list of Ten Tricks to put the
MAGIC! at the Magic Castle show together? Or you just figurin' out a
new act for yourself?
Msg #13584 Dated 10:04:07 08-11-91 13575 <--> 13588
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
Ah, demographics. And that makes it OK to create inaccurate and nasty
remarks about the Castle, right? "Doesn't matter who you hurt on the
way up."
Msg #13585 Dated 10:05:44 08-11-91 13577 <--> 13610
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Pete - I _LIVE_ in a cave! And I do try to invent my own stuff. It
helps to know what has gone before.
Msg #13586 Dated 10:10:28 08-11-91 -> 13599
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Stan Lake's message (#13571) gives rise to a question - how does one do
magic research? It would be easy if, say, books were all about one
type of effect, but often they are more eclectic. Even given the
resources of the Castle Library - how would one search out a particular
effect?
Msg #13587 Dated 10:13:53 08-11-91 13564 <--> 13615
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: RANDY LUND (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
It sounds like the kid with the attic did a very good routine. But
what sort of venue would it really fit in?
Msg #13588 Dated 10:16:26 08-11-91 13563 <--> 13594
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: P & T
Max - By the same token, don't let your friendship with P & T blind
you. I do not consider my thinking wishful as I truly wish them no
harm. They've created a machine and they have to feed it.
Msg #13589 Dated 10:21:14 08-11-91 13567 <--> 13596
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: RANDY LUND (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Randy - you did a super job covering Abbotts. THANKS! Have a
wonderful time on vacation.
Msg #13590 Dated 10:25:49 08-11-91 13570 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Thanks for the write up of the Roth lecture, Cindy. Looks like it was
a super event. See you at the Castle in a few minutes (unless you
don't read this until after the Brunch).
Msg #13592 Dated 11:46:02 08-11-91 -> 13617
From: TABBY CRABB
To: ALL
Re: GERMAN MARKS TO US DOLLAR
Can someone tell me how many dollars = a German mark DM?
Msg #13593 Dated 11:50:03 08-11-91 13512 <--> 13601
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
Good luck, Tab. Upon your winning, I'll expect no more than the
standard ten percent. I'm just a nice guy, I guess.
'W.
Msg #13594 Dated 11:52:58 08-11-91 13513 <--> 13595
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: P & T
I might suggest legal action, Dante. Defamation suits have become much
easier to substantiate in the last year or two. Perhaps a class action
suit on behalf of all Magic Castle members who consider themselves
neither corporate or alcoholic.
'W.
Msg #13595 Dated 11:58:43 08-11-91 13539 <--> 13597
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: P & T
I've withdrawn my support from P&T a while back and feel great about
it!
'W.
Msg #13596 Dated 12:08:40 08-11-91 13567 <--> 13600
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: RANDY LUND (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Thanks so much for the excellent and comprehensive reporting from
Abbott's! You've done a very fine job and it's greatly appreciated by
all, I'm sure! It's really too bad, though, that you missed the Jim,
Vic & Shag Show, as I would have loved to see your report on them.
Maybe next year.
'W.
Msg #13597 Dated 12:23:03 08-11-91 13594 <--> 13608
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
The Castle, though sued by numerous blind old
ladies tripping on stairs through the years, I
THINK has a pride about never suing. A very
rare circumstance in California. I just feel
this petition thing is getting sort of tired.
It would be different if P & T could stop
stroking Houdini so much and maybe find another
magic act they publicly li. In a way they have
put themselves so high on a pedestal someone
took away the ladder when they weren't looking.
Or maybe they liked the view and pushed it away
themselves.
Msg #13598 Dated 12:29:27 08-11-91 13525 <--> 13602
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HARKEY PLUG
It's at the dealers so take a look first. My
endorse was merely as one who enjoyed it. Or,
give a Buzz to yron or the like and get a
second opinion.
Msg #13599 Dated 12:33:55 08-11-91 13586 <--> 13614
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
To do competent research, first you should have a reasonably broad base
of general knowledge; you should be familiar with the hundred or so
basic books. Then you should get some historical background, so you
know who has been doing the kind of thing you're looking for and can
research their work. Then, of course, there is the Potter Index
(Master Index To Magic In Print), which gives sources in books and
magazines up to 1964 and which, Micky Hades (publisher) tells me is
being updated. You can also ask people working in the specific area at
the present time.
It should be pointed out that -- given the extensive printed record
-- magic research is not all that difficult a proposition; it just
takes time. Compared to other types of historical research, or
genealogic work, it is relatively easy.
Msg #13600 Dated 12:42:57 08-11-91 13567 <--> 13606
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: RANDY LUND (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Franz calls the Tube illusion "Ballenzon" your
guess is as good as mine. To bad about Mr.
xcvxvbzm,rr
Msg #13601 Dated 13:54:55 08-11-91 13593 <--> 13619
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
Well, if I ever hit the big number you can believe we'll have one
MAGIC! bash somewhere out west. I'll pay. Maybe a tour coach ride
from LA to Vegas to catch a show or two with peanut butter and bacon
sandwiches flow in.
Msg #13602 Dated 13:55:01 08-11-91 13598 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: HARKEY PLUG
Dealers hyre in Charlotte Hall are the mail order variety so don't
much of a chance to window shop. I've been wanting to take a look at
it so might. Don't worry, I won't hold you responsible if I don't
like it.
Msg #13603 Dated 14:04:00 08-11-91 -> 13868
From: BRUCE SANDERCOCK
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MARRIOTT
I'm due to be in Dallas and Minneapolis this week, but should be in
town the week of August 19th, if all goes to plan. Will put Wednesday
21st on the calandar to see you and Johnny "Ace" at the Marriott. I'll
bring my rope!
Msg #13604 Dated 14:52:26 08-11-91 -> 13620
From: BRUCE SANDERCOCK
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: P & T
I don't personally frequent whorehouses as apparently Penn & Teller do,
therefore I can't contridict their comments on the Castle's decor.
They must have been in some pretty classy whorehouses!
Msg #13606 Dated 16:27:36 08-11-91 13600 <--> 13618
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
The reason it's called "Ballenzon" is purely as an in-gag -- it's a
play on his manager's surname, Belenzon.
Msg #13607 Dated 16:33:33 08-11-91 13571 <--> 13627
From: MAX MAVEN
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
There is also a quite similar effect most commonly called "Magician
Versus Gambler," of which there have been quite a few versions in
print.
Msg #13608 Dated 16:34:31 08-11-91 13588 <--> 13612
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
In my last message I explicitly stated my disapproval of the quotes
from Penn & Teller -- so how does this in any way indicate that my
friendship with them has "blinded" me?
You are quite right that they, as is true for almost any working
performers, cannot sit back but must actively work to keep improving
their situation ("feed the machine," as you put it) -- but I still
question how this leads to your assumption that they are "desperate."
I still see no justification for this assumption.
Msg #13610 Dated 16:37:52 08-11-91 13577 <--> 13613
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
If you were going to lock yourself away for a year for the express
purpose of inventing original magic, why on earth would you take such
pedestrian props in with you?
It brings to mind the old story about the magician who is contacted by
an angel, who says, "We've been observing you, and are quite impressed
with your altruism -- so much so that we've decided to grant you true
magical powers. You can, from now on, cause actual magic to happen."
The magician is, of course, overjoyed. So, in his new show he uses
his new abilities... to link metal rings, restore cut rope, and float
a metal ball under a cloth.
Msg #13611 Dated 17:03:53 08-11-91 13583 <--> 13662
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NOT TEN CARD TRIX
I ain't talkin... NO, just want to get some trick talk goin' here.
If it keeps bein' so esoteric I AM OUTA HERE!!!!!!!!!!
OK?
Msg #13612 Dated 17:03:59 08-11-91 13584 <--> 13616
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
I din't say it was OK, i sed it was what they P&T "feel" that
readership likes to hear... more irreverence, et al crappooo
Msg #13613 Dated 17:04:04 08-11-91 13585 <--> 13622
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Everything has gone before. There is nothing new. Keep the cave
fires burning.
Msg #13614 Dated 17:04:09 08-11-91 13586 <--> 13656
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
A certain effect can be easily researched. Just keep reading. Do
you have the Potter Master Index to Print? Do you post the question
online, alltime? Do you ask people like Jay Marshall, Charles
Reynolds, Jeff Busby, Persi Diaconis, (not to mention T A and Maven
who are obvious choices) Bruce Cervon, Roger Klause? These guys
have read it all.
Msg #13615 Dated 17:04:17 08-11-91 13587 <--> 13628
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
An attic... where else. Kids always do their shows in attics and
basements. I did. I had a puppet theater in my basement when I was
seven years old! However "would be" illusioniss work garages.
Msg #13616 Dated 17:04:22 08-11-91 13588 <--> 13655
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
I understand they are feeding it well.
Msg #13617 Dated 17:04:26 08-11-91 13592 <--> 13633
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: GERMAN MARKS TO US DOLLAR
You can get about 1.73 DM for on US Buckaroo these days.That comes
out at about 1 DM = .57 cents. You're welcome.
Msg #13618 Dated 17:04:31 08-11-91 13600 <--> 13621
From: PETE BIRO
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Maybe he calls it that in honor of his manager, David Bellanzon?
Msg #13619 Dated 17:04:34 08-11-91 13601 <--> 13634
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
We can take the Orient Express... what the hay... oh, I hear the
FAX machine burping out some stuff, I bet it is from you, (pause)
In response to your FAX... Answers to questions, 1,3,5,,7,8,9 is
Yep. (And I did for forty bucks get on a flight SEVEN HOURS EARLIER,
and here I is). Answers to other questions. NO, never, NYET.
And, yep, LL Ireland was a clever bugger... to bad he drank somuch.
Msg #13620 Dated 17:04:43 08-11-91 13604 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: P & T
If you get to the Las Vegas Airport, check the bookstores for copies
of the Brothel Guides. You wanna see UGLY??? (and that includes
the employees)!!!!!!!!!!!! Yow... how you could get toined on...
ech!!!
Msg #13621 Dated 17:04:49 08-11-91 13606 <--> 13630
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Oooops, I spelled Belanzon wrong a moment ago... tsk.
Msg #13622 Dated 17:04:52 08-11-91 13610 <--> 13626
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Tooo Shay... maven-san... or in the land of rising prices Three Shay
Msg #13623 Dated 17:04:55 08-11-91 -> 13664
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: MESSAGES
Ee;13610
I is sending this stuff off one computer, then going to find the
other one and send some other comments on earlier messages. I
hope this don't screw up the thread orders? Hah...
Msg #13624 Dated 17:05:03 08-11-91 -> 13639
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
Ee;13610
HEY, C'MON ITS ALMOST FIVE PM AND YOU HAVEN'TA DONE A LIVE REPORT
FROM HOME OF THE WONDER PIGGY.... WHAT'S KEEPIN YA... LA TRAFFIC?
Msg #13626 Dated 18:38:13 08-11-91 13559 <--> 13659
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Awww did someone fo'get you' Boifday? I hope Tommy Wonder didn't
and did the Squirmle for you... that would be much more than any
Frog would deserve!!!!
Msg #13627 Dated 18:38:21 08-11-91 13561 <--> 13631
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
The "Litte Wonder Thought Projector" by Rawson didn't have an
Egg Beater that opened... Spectator held the Egg Beater and "aimed"
it at a recipient of "the thought waves" -- the Mojo Man (or woman)
then "cue'd" the audience, usually by holding a jumbo card up in
back of the helper. Somve have used the back of a notebook, or some
other divice to "cue" the audience.
.
I kinda like Stan's newer approach with the fire helmet. Adds a
new dimension of silly looking helper to the "FINE ART OF MAGIC".
.
Hmmmmmm. What does Kaplan define "ART OF MAGIC" in his book of the
same name? Or does he try?
Msg #13628 Dated 18:38:35 08-11-91 13564 <--> 13629
From: PETE BIRO
To: RANDY LUND (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
Well,I think the least you can do is find the youngster and tell
him he was on the right track and was THE WINNER in your eyes.
Tell him do not be discouraged, the JUDGES are often UNABLE to spot
new trends and sometimes don't appreciate efforts such as his.
Did the Audience LIKE HIS WORK?
.
I was surprised (but glad to get your observation) that Marvyn roy
didn't kill 'em. At the IMB in Baltimore Marvyn and Carol "Killed
'em" and got standing ovation.
.
Often it is the placement on the show, the circumstances, etc. that
make or break an act. I noted in your reviews a (to me) weird order
to the acts. Opening with a juggler or a satirical act, when they
must be placed later in a show to be appreciated. You cannot do
satire and much of magic comedy early in a series of shows. The
audience has to have seen a lot of standard stuff to get the relief
of the comedic presentations. There are exceptions. If an act isn't
super good, sometimes you get them on and off early so by the end
the spectator will FORGET about the weaker acts.
Msg #13629 Dated 18:38:56 08-11-91 13566 <--> 13650
From: PETE BIRO
To: RANDY LUND (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
Probably reason you have not seen ORIGAMI BOX is that only a few
are "authorized" users. Doug Henning was the first and debuted it
at the IBM in Long Beach. I believe the Pendragon's also have an
"official" version. Not sure if anyone else does. Maybe Maven will
be able to shed some light on this one.
Msg #13630 Dated 18:39:05 08-11-91 13567 <--> 13632
From: PETE BIRO
To: RANDY LUND (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
One of the reason a lot of acts are "Silent - and done to music" is
they are designed to work A: IN EUROPE, B: IN A LAS VEGAS REVUE
(where you usually get 10-11 minutes (PERIOD) and do not have time
to establish as a talking act. It is not easy to do a commercial
talking act in that short time frame and also difficult to do a
talking act that is timed to within a few seconds EVERY SHOW, which
is, in the real world of revue shows, A MUST.
And... one of the reasons silent to music acts ALMOST ALL use tape,
is the rehearsal time and cost of a band, plus fact that nearly
all shows are "OPENING NIGHTS" it is too risky to rely on live
music. It is hard enough to find a crewlumpen that can merely turn
your tape recording on and off when planned! Not to mention anyone
that can figure out what lighting cue's are to be done!!!! It is
absolutely insane how few good people there are to halp with the
technical side that the audinece is never aware of (WHEN IT IS
DONE CORRECTLY).
Msg #13631 Dated 18:39:25 08-11-91 13571 <--> 13635
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
Hey, it is OK to invent your own stuff. I doesn't matter, at this
stage, that it has been around. You shouldn't throttle your
creativity... you might need to start to SESSION with some of the
known AUTHORITIES... to run ideas by them. Feedback, from the right
people, is more important than most realize.
.
I used to have a pal that would work ideas out with me. We came up
with lots of stuff... then we both went separate ways (moved) and
since I have not had the same rapport with anyone on a one to one
basis -- IN PERSON -- and find creating on my own has slowed down
quite a bit.
Msg #13632 Dated 18:39:38 08-11-91 13572 <--> 13652
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Just one more Thanks, from the Left Coast, and former performer
(twice) at Abbott Get Togethers. Can't recall if you mentioned
the weather (was it terribly hot and humid?) or any of the nutty
acivities late, after the real shows, at the local drinking and
hanging around establishments.
And do they still to the TERRIBLE close up format with all four
acts working at the same time in one big room...???? I remember
doing that (at least 20 years ago) when we could DISRUPT (IN FUN)
the other workers... much like this past FISM, where they had
bleachers set up back to back. When either Tamariz or Williamson
worked, the applause, foot stomping, etc. was so loud the poor
"normal" person working had to literally stop... Hahah... but when
TAMARIZ AND WILLIAMSON were on both at the same time... it became
a GAME... TO SEE WHO COULD GET THEIR HALF OF THE AUD TO MAKE THE
MOST NOISE... in that context it was great fun.
Msg #13633 Dated 18:42:06 08-11-91 13617 <--> 13950
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: GERMAN MARKS TO US DOLLAR
Muchas Gracias for the information. I got a copy of The A-B-C of
FAXIC from Germany this morning with a subscription equest. It
really isn't information that I really need, plus it is in German
and English. But it looks good, is attractive and the premise is an
interesting one of the fax newsletter. I was trying to decide whether
to subscribe (or is it enlist?). It's 23 DM a year so that is a
reasonable figure especially since he's faxing it from Germany. You
know I like those fax machines so am interested in this type of
usage.
Msg #13634 Dated 18:42:16 08-11-91 13619 <--> 13640
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
French dinner outside by the kitchen. Shrimp, scallops and peppers
cooked in a paper bag with some kind of white wine. Good. The
CH stuff just arrived on fax. That's the most stuff I've been able
to find out so far. Any more stuff on him most welcome. I have a
free classified going in Genii in October looking for information
on Conrad Haden. Your mindreading is getting tooo good. I'm almost
scared to ask, but those letters were dated over 20 years ago. Is
he still living in Florida???
Msg #13635 Dated 18:53:42 08-11-91 13607 <--> 13636
From: STAN LAKE
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
Do you happen to know offhand any of the titles of published material
containing the Magician vs. Gambler type routines?
Msg #13636 Dated 18:55:41 08-11-91 13627 <--> 13637
From: STAN LAKE
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
Maybe I should have said something else about my fire helmet routine.
I only do it for kids and young teenagers who really get a scream out
of it. I suppose it would work for an adult audience too but I
wouldn't want to make a grownup look silly and shredding their dignity
on stage when they are nice enough to help out in the first place by
volunteering. (or being volunteered) That is not to say that kids
don't have dignity or want to look silly it's just that in my
experience the ones I have worked with have relished being able to ham
it up in front of their friends and have not hesitated to don that
ridiculous "thought projector". When I do comedy for adults it is
MUCH more subtle- even dry. I want to entertain people, not irritate
them.
Msg #13637 Dated 19:07:01 08-11-91 13631 <--> 13641
From: STAN LAKE
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
That is one of the great things about Magic! We can present an idea
and get all sorts of new angles, methods, presentation points etc. from
other members. the $100 bill thread is a perfect example. A simple
gag has turned out to have some terrifically interesting possibilities
because other members took the time to let their thoughts be known.
Msg #13638 Dated 19:24:54 08-11-91 -> 13642
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: FAX LIFE
I realized that I've got a lot of great information, etc on fax paper
and just got paranoid about the life of this stuff. Do you have any
idea how long a fax message lasts. Should I photo copy all this stuff
to store it in my files??? Help!
Msg #13639 Dated 19:20:59 08-11-91 13624 <--> 13666
From: STAN LAKE
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
As long as I'm on line I'll give you a brief rundown of the Wonder
Brunch. We (David Lichtman, Jerry Burton, Wayne Powers, Evan Katz and
his lovely fiancee Jean, Cindy Szerlip (sp?) and husband Don, Tommy
Wonder and a lady friend I did not meet, Manny Weltman, Burt Carpenter,
myself and my wife met downstairs in the museum where we were given an
interesting demonstration by Jerry on that metal which expands and
contracts when current is applied and shut off. Lots of magical
possibilities with this one. Give Jerry enough time and he could put
out a catalog full of applications for it. Evan's whining about being
hungry got louder and louder (Just kidding!) so we went upstairs into
the Cherub room for brunch. We were later joined by Max Maven and
Peter Pit. We sat at two different tables and I wasn't at Tommy's
table so I don't know what discussions took place there. He did
perform the Squirmly effect for us and another table whch i a really
cute effect. Must take a lot of practice to make it look alive as it
did! I did a few effects at our table. Cindy was going to use one of
those Sweet'n'Low packets to sweeten her coffee so before she opened it
I vanished a nickle and reproduced it from inside the packet. It might
have gone over better if I would have told everyone at our table it was
showtime! I did the coin under watch routine and a couple of card
effects. We were all pretty well stuffed so people started to filter
off one by one. The clean up crews were absentmindedly bumping our
chairs with the vacuum cleaners. A sure sign it is time to clear out.
Before leaving Jerry and Peter and I had an interesting discussion
about the Superpig. He suggested that we start a petition and have the
results presented at the next general meeting. He said he never
received the letters I sent about it because the were addressed to Bill
who promptly threw them away. So, we'll work on that petition!
Anyway, it was a very pleasant afternoon and it was nice to meet a few
more of our Magic! members and to see Tommy Wonder. That's about it...
Msg #13640 Dated 19:48:42 08-11-91 13634 <--> 13645
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
I don't know if Connie is still with us or gone to the lathe in the sky
Msg #13641 Dated 19:49:27 08-11-91 13636 <--> 13651
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
I find that fun stuff, silly stuff, works good ONLY WHEN ALL THE PEOPLE
KNOW EACH OTHER. To do that kind of stuff in a nightclub does not play
as well.
Msg #13642 Dated 19:50:24 08-11-91 13638 <--> 13646
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FAX LIFE
When you get the hides you buy a Canon Plain Paper fax. Otherwise, yep
you gots to copy onto plain paper... or die...
Msg #13643 Dated 20:02:57 08-11-91 -> 13669
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: NEW KAPS LETTERS
KAPS LETTER -- HAND WRITTEN, HOPE I CAN GET IT ALL RIGHT...
3, JAN, 1974
Pete:
It is about time I wrote you again... so here goes.
All the very best for 1974!!
It seems that we will need it! We are really in trouble with this
oil business. The 7th of January we can only get petrol by
distribution -- and only so much.
Have to get stamps for extra Petrol to go places for my work as
we are limited to 15 liters a week!!
Of course this is impossible!!
Will know next week what I get. Thanks for the article in
NEWSWEEK. I am working in it but have to find the right man to
start it off. <>.
Just had a letter from Danny Dew and Scotty York and wrote them
both back. Danny sent me a wonderful set of the large size Cups
and fine crochet balls.
Right now my main concern is to get rid of my TAILS and work in a
TUX because of shirts, waistcoats, ties and collar trouble. It's
getting almost impossible to have them done. Tuxedo will be ready
next month and then I have to experiment with the act.
Haven't heard from Ken for ages. I know that he will go to Spain
on the 12th of January, for a vacation. I will write him a letter
as soon as this one is finished.
Did you see Johnny Thompson again? Wonder what he came up with on
the mental theme? I am also working on it.
I am also working again on the Gambling Lecture. Lots of fun.
Nothing definite yet.
Did Scotty's Razor Blade (cut up deck) the other day at a magic
meeting and it went like a bomb. Terrific IMPACT!
They did not know what hit them. Great!!!
Found a beautiful load of loose Poker Chips in a dice cup. Will
show you when over here. If possible I might come to England to
see you work at the convention in March. <>
If not, hope you will have time to come here a few days.
All the very best with your trade show...
Kindest regards from Nellie, the kids, the dog... and your
friends... (signed) Fred
Msg #13644 Dated 20:03:57 08-11-91 -> 13680
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
FLASH... JUST FOUND TWO MORE KAPS LETTERS IN ANOTHER FILE!!
(not in order of those in files of D. Lichtman, AKA the Frog, but
here these are)...
14 January, 1974
Pete: Thanks for your letters and it always amazes me how you do
it and how you can find the time! Anyway, keep these letters
coming!
AT the moment I am also back on the Gambling Stuff and trying to
get a good routine together. The card part is all ready and now
trying to get the dice routine together.
It seems to me that the dice are not as spectacular for a larger
group because of the visibility, however the patriotic dice
routine (out of Audley Walsh's book) is quite good as a dice
switch dem. Maybe I will include a dice stack routine as well so
I can finish off with a shot glass of whisky to end the dem.
Haven't made my mind up yet.
Your car routine sounds very good and for your information here
is what I thought out:
Have deck set up for Dai Vernon's Poker Deal (Dai Vernon Book of
Magic). As in Dai's routine the bottom card is crimped (Q of H).
This stack uses 27 cards of the pack. Now from the rest of the
pack take out the remaining 4 of Spades, any 7 spot and any 10
spot or picture card and put them on the bottom from the stack
underneath the Queen of Hears. So from bottom up the deck reads:
7,4,10 the stack and the rest of deck (22 cards including the 4
Aces). If you wish you can scatter the aces through the deck at
random.
The Routine:
False shuffle deck while talking about gamblers and their tricks
and offer to give demonstration. (Deck is still in order). Turn
up the top card to show, turn down again and 2nd deal a few cards
to dem. that you can control that top card for yourself.
I do a real second here. I repeat once and then demonstrate the
2nd once more but now with the top card face up. This always gets
OH's and AH's from the laymen. Now tell them how this technique
can be used in as game of Black Jack.
While talking I separate the 2 bottom cards from deck with L.H.
(Deck in overhand shuffle position). I lift all but the bottom
two cards and shuffle 4 cards on top of these 2 cards. In one
continuous shuffle I now "milk" top and bottom card together on
top of the already shuffled 6 cards and shuffle 3 more cards and
throw rest of deck on top keeping a break.
Cut to break and you are now set for a dem. of Black Jack. The
set up on top should now be from top down: 4 x cards, the 10
spot, 4 x cards, the four and the seven.
Deal out five Black Jack hands face up. Your 2nd card of the hand
goes face down under your face up 10 sot. (this will be the 4).
Now demonstrate the glimpse while looking at your hole card,
buckling the top card of the deck. (You actually don't have to do
the glimpse at all, because you KNOW you have the 7 spot on the
deck!) Tell them you know the top card of the deck now: the 7
of ... Now demonstrate how you know by showing them the glimpse.
Turn the top card face up and leave this 7 spot face up while you
play the game of B.J. with the other hands 2nd dealing on every
card you deal to those hands. Deal the 7 to yourself showing that
with your hole card it makes 21.
Talk about marked cards and remove the 4 Aces from the deck. Tell
them this deck is not marked so you will turn the 4 Aces Face
Up, which is about the same as IF the cards were marked!
Put the face up Aces in the deck as follows: (Deck is face down).
Thumb count 3 cards from the top and insert first Ace, 3 more and
insert 2nd Ace, 3 more and insert 3rd Ace and then "5" more and
insert last Ace. Do a couple of false cuts here telling them the
Aces are lost in the deck.
Now a demonstration of 2nd dealing in a Poker Game. Deal 5 Poker
Hands, 2nd dealing on every face up Ace, dealing the Aces to
yourself. This is also very strong, Pete.
Put the dealt cards back on top of deck and offer to dem. bottom
deal: P:ut the 4 Aces face up on bottom of face down deck. Deal
about three or four cards from deck and then a bottom. The face
up Ace coming from the deck really shocks them! Do three more
bottoms to end dem.
Tell them that it is even possible to stack the Aces!
Here I go into the Dai Vernon demonstration of showing how a
gambler stack the cards with the "Haymow" shuffle.
I made a slight alteration here.
Instead of shuffling 4 cards to the bottom as a demonstration
that you shuffle the cards singly, I shuffle 9 cards to the
bottom, under the Queen of Hearts. Now I put 3 Aces on top and
one on the bottom as in Dai's version BUT I put them face up!!
Do the shuffling as in routine: 11 cards singly, back on top, the
4 to bottom, 5 to bottom, 1 to bottom and 5 to bottom. Cut at
break. Now when you deal out the five poker hands you will get no
face up Ace on the 1st round dealt, but they appear on round
2,3,4 and 5. So the audience see you really did stack the Aces!
From there on you do the rest of the Vernon routine with the Aces
face down.
The deck I use is also "resin" marked <> so if I want I could go into a further dem. of Black Jack
or separating the High from the Low cards or doing a drunk deal,
dealing off all the Spades to myself for a bridge deal. I don't
think this will be necessary after this dem. It seems strong
enough.
Let me know what you think of it. You should know, because you do
a demonstration. <>.
You mentioned a tape of your dem., and I am surely interested to
hear it! Could you make a copy? <>.
I will send you my so-called Himber Card Box. I don't know if
this is what you want, but it is the only one I have (Vermeyden
make). Why do you want it anyway? Are you holding out on me?
Last time I did the Razor Blade Trick <> it
went off like a bomb!!! Could easily switch going for the razor
in my close up seat!
I also will see to it that you get a light bulb (whatever Scotty
may say! After all it was us that developed the thing as it is
now! Dick <> makes them perfect and I will ask him
to make you one. I am sure he will!!
Haven't heard anything from Ken for weeks myself and just hope he
will have a wonderful time right now, as I believe he is in Spain
on holiday.
I have been playing around with Martin Lewis' Side Walk Shuffle
so much that the cards are getting dirty. Could you get one or
two sets for me? Also would appreciate a copy of the Ben Martin
(??) routine.
Will see if I can get Johnny Thompson a TV show here. Let me know
the date he will be available and will phone immediately to the
right people!
The Camera Bag should be a natural for you. You can tell them it
is your hobby and do a Polaroid stunt to prove it.
Bob Driebeek does a trick with Polaroid. Takes picture, pulls out
and have same person sign back. Has other person picture taken
and signed on back. When developed the pictures have changed
places. (One ahead principle -- stooge -- bet you can figure it
Msg #13645 Dated 21:35:33 08-11-91 13640 <--> 13647
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
I guess I'll start with a letter to his last address.
Msg #13646 Dated 21:35:36 08-11-91 13642 <--> 13668
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: FAX LIFE
I've got a ton of stuff to copy some of it a year or more old. I
guess I'd better get a couple reams of paper and go to it. Thanks
for the info.
Msg #13647 Dated 21:39:43 08-11-91 13645 <--> 13696
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
Not bad ideeee... hope you find him...
Msg #13650 Dated 21:55:41 08-11-91 13629 <--> 13663
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
Legitimate owners of the Origami Box are those that have purchased them
from John Gaughan, who has a royalty arrangement with Jim Steinmeyer
and is the only authorized builder. Henning was the first to have it,
before it was made available to others, but it was not debuted at the
IBM in Long Beach; he'd been doing it on the road. Others who own it
include the Pendragons, Siegfried & Roy (it is in their show at the
Mirage), and David Copperfield (who has used it on tour and was the
first to perform it on television). There are others who have it, both
here and abroad, and before this turns into the Zig-Zag of the 1990s
perhaps illusionists should think a bit before ordering one...
Msg #13651 Dated 22:02:36 08-11-91 13635 <--> 13670
From: MAX MAVEN
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
Harry Lorayne had one of the more popular versions; I think it's in
"Close-Up Card Magic."
Msg #13652 Dated 22:06:37 08-11-91 13621 <--> 13653
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
And yet again... it's "Belenzon."
Msg #13653 Dated 22:07:02 08-11-91 13630 <--> 13689
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Regarding "B" -- think it through and you'll realize that the
percentage of silent acts in Las Vegas is not as high as you assume.
Msg #13655 Dated 22:44:53 08-11-91 13608 <--> 13695
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: P & T
Penn & Teller's machine is not the standard model, Max. It is a bit
more like the large plant in Little Shop of Horrors (the stage version,
not the second movie). It requires blood to keep theirs running, since
they have embarked in a direction that requires not more and more
spectacular effects or more and more performance values, but one that
requires more and more controversy and publicity. Hence their growing
desperation to keep their unfortunate machine fed.
Msg #13656 Dated 22:54:16 08-11-91 13599 <--> 13657
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Thank you, T A. I appreciate your answer. Sure would be nice to have
an on-line database like some other fields do.
Msg #13657 Dated 22:55:05 08-11-91 13614 <--> 13674
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I'm usually able to navigate most libraries and feel guilty constantly
asking people questions. The Potter Master Index is _very_ helpful,
but ends in 1964. If indeed it is being updated, that will be a great
help. The problem, for me, is organization - magic books are not like
those in most other fields, in that in magic there can be multiple
topics in any given book. I have great trouble in locating a specific
effect even within my own meagre library.
Msg #13659 Dated 23:08:06 08-11-91 13613 <--> 13660
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Magic is an old art - so old, in fact, that your statement about there
being noting new is almost believable. But you should have been at
lunch today and seen Jerry's wire.
Essentially, in any field there are three types - Leaders, Creators,
and Perpetuators. Think on it!
Msg #13660 Dated 23:10:06 08-11-91 13626 <--> 13672
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
My birthday doesn't occur for some months yet. Just that I'm readin'
about all this stuff changin' hands and my UPS guy and the Maytag
repairman are off playin' poker together.
YES, Tommy Wonder DID Squirmle! And, yes, it WAS both magic and art!
He had the critter eating out of the palm of his hand! Truly wonderful
to watch.
Msg #13662 Dated 23:12:35 08-11-91 13611 <--> 13691
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: NOT TEN CARD TRIX
I agree - we need a blend of the esoteric and sublime and the trick
stuff. The Hundred Dollar Bill thread was great! But now we're all
waiting for your feedback on our lists.
Msg #13663 Dated 23:13:49 08-11-91 13615 <--> 13665
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
I did too! I had a six room basement when I was a kid and got to use
five of 'em. One was for model trains, one was for electronic gear,
one was for toy and prop storage, and one was my clubhouse/theater.
Er, make that a five room basement and I got four of 'em.
Good point about the "would be" illusionists, as I generally didn't get
into the garage much.
Msg #13664 Dated 23:17:16 08-11-91 13623 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MESSAGES
Whatever it is you are doing doesn't sound like it will mess up the
threads too badly, but, of course, the messages you send first will
arrive first.
Msg #13665 Dated 23:22:55 08-11-91 13629 <--> 13688
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
Jim Steinmeyer once mentioned about a dozen
authorized Origami's. Besides Henning, Copperfield
and Pendragons, he didn't mention names.
David (the other one)
Oh, sorry about "Ten Card Trix" wasn't at my home PC and could'nt
remember thread no.
Msg #13666 Dated 23:21:53 08-11-91 13639 <--> 13677
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
Sorry to have returned late, but it looks like thanks to Stan, the
report got here without me. I was at the table with Burt Carpenter,
Jerry Burton, Wayne Powers, Lynn Healy (Tommy's lady friend that Stan
mentioned), Peter Pit, Max Maven, and Tommy Wonder. We didn't get to
see any of Stan's performance and the discussion was mostly
reminiscences and philosophy one side of the table and acting and magic
on the other. As noted, Tommy did Squirmly and it indeed was true
magic in his hands. Beautiful to watch. There was one table in the
room that wasn't MAGIC! folk - just a group having lunch and they
immediately asked if they could see what Tommy had done. I told 'em he
was on vacation - but Tommy, really nice guy that he is, immediately
turned around and repeated Squirmly for them. They loved it, but I'm
reasonably sure they had no idea that they had just had one of the
World's top magicians perform at their table.
Afte the group broke up, Burt and I spent a couple of hours down in the
parking lot going thru Gardner's Encyclopaedia of Impromptu Magic.
Oh! And Stan didn't mention that a limited edition (but not signed or
numbered) set of exclusive "The Wonder Brunch" commemorative MAGIC!
buttons were issued.
Msg #13668 Dated 23:32:27 08-11-91 13646 <--> 13679
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FAX LIFE
I agree with Pete - far as I know, fax paper does fade rather rapidly.
You got to copy 'em. For archival storage, you got to copy 'em to acid
free paper and keep 'em _out_ of most forms of plastic sleeves. I use
plain paper fax.
Msg #13669 Dated 23:36:53 08-11-91 13643 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: NEW KAPS LETTERS
Thanks for posting the latest Kaps letter, Pete. I've been swamped
around here.
Msg #13670 Dated 23:38:35 08-11-91 13627 <--> 13671
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
Coupla things -- the helmet, or hat, has also been around for quite a
while in various version; and I don't know that striving to make the
audience volunteer look sillier is all that great a goal.
Msg #13671 Dated 23:40:41 08-11-91 13636 <--> 13734
From: T A WATERS
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
I dunno -- most of the kids and young teenagers I have known are even
MORE sensitive about being made to look foolish than are adults -- and
most adults ain't too thrilled.
Msg #13672 Dated 23:42:56 08-11-91 13610 <-
From: T A WATERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH
Unfortunately, it isn't all a story -- couple of years back I was told
of a young man whose parents gave him $20,000 to buy some props; so of
course he bought a ZigZag -- and a Sub Trunk -- and -- so on.
Msg #13674 Dated 23:45:21 08-11-91 13656 <--> 13676
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I have suggested something of the sort to Hades -- where people would
pay for access to certain subject lists at so much per, just like other
commercial databases; I am given to understand he is moving in that
direction.
Msg #13676 Dated 23:49:20 08-11-91 13656 <--> 13681
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Thanks, T A. Was hoping you would get a chance to drop by Brunch
today. Yes, an on-line database would be wonderful. I have done them
before, so if you get a chance, you might suggest that Hades get in
touch with me.
Msg #13677 Dated 23:49:54 08-11-91 13666 <--> 13678
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
It should be pointed out that Lynn Healy is a bit more than just
Tommy's friend; she is also the maker of the best Malini and Sterling
Egg Bags in the world (when you can get her to make one). Hers are the
only kind John Thompson will use; enough said? She is also
knowledgeable about many other aspects of magic and its history, among
other things.
Msg #13678 Dated 23:52:31 08-11-91 13677 <--> 13701
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
I CERTAINLY did NOT mean to sleight Lynn's background and skills. I
was only referring back to the previous identification of her. Thank
you for adding some of her credits.
Msg #13679 Dated 0:31:54 08-12-91 13638 <--> 13705
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FAX LIFE
Not long at all. Pulled some stuff out of my files a little while ago
that was two or so years old, and it was borderline illegible.
Anything that needs to be permanent -- copy. Though I'm sure
xerox-type copies have a life, too!
I have a friend at a lawfirm, and the staff never even let the lawers
SEE the fax! Everything gets copied into bond right away. This is
because of convenience (fax paper is SLIMY), and also, I'll bet,
because of the archive reasons.
Msg #13680 Dated 0:38:23 08-12-91 13644 <--> 13693
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
Pete--
Thanks for generously uploading more letters! Quick question -- what
are "resin-coated cards?" Aside from the comment in the letter
relating them to punched cards, I can't imagine how you'd mark cards
with something sticky!
Msg #13681 Dated 0:40:27 08-12-91 13657 <--> 13690
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Wouldn't you think that updating that index from '64 to '91 would be a
MONUMENTAL task? Think of how much stuff's been published! How many
sleights that have been invented, or variations published! Wonder if
the think would more than double in size. Is it an index of sleights,
effects, both, or something else?
Msg #13683 Dated 0:45:36 08-12-91 -> 13873
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
Thanks so much for showing us all your wire stuff -- it's amazing
stuff! I can't wait to see your next inventions!
Msg #13684 Dated 0:46:38 08-12-91 -> 13737
From: EVAN KATZ
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: MEETIN'YOU
Just wanted to drop you a note to let you know it was a real pleasure
meeting you and your wife!
Msg #13685 Dated 0:47:44 08-12-91 -> 13778
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: YO
T'was a pleasure meeting you and your hubby today at brunch, Cindy.
You have completely convinced me to do my (eventual) Castle audition as
a Drag Queen. Thank you.
Msg #13686 Dated 0:48:59 08-12-91 -> 13706
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
Saw your mssg re the Harkey book, and can't remember if we discussed it
at all. I have definite feelings, and think I remember sharing them
with you. If not, lemme know, and I'll open the opinion floodgates.
Msg #13687 Dated 0:50:52 08-12-91 -> 13699
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: W.BOX
Wayne--
Checked my MOVIE GUIDE, and WRONG BOX is or was on videotape. I'll
continue my search. Videoteque is next stop.
Nice seein' you 2-day.
Msg #13688 Dated 1:09:13 08-12-91 13650 <--> 13951
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
Thanks for Origami update... the Zig Zag is good again!
Msg #13689 Dated 1:09:16 08-12-91 13652 <--> 13700
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
What would I do without you? Thanks, my fingers are whipped... been
airporting it today... gnite...
Msg #13690 Dated 1:09:21 08-12-1 1357<--> 3694
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Me too... but I seem to find other stuff that gets me onto another
track when searching out stuff... it is still fun. Oh, when you
cave it, Max thinks the coins and cards are mundane. So, think of
some added stuff to work with. Maybe uh, er... it is your problem.
Msg #13691 Dated 1:09:28 08-12-91 13662 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NOT TEN CARD TRIX
I have spoken on the lists. Too few, and I forget what they were.
Msg #13693 Dated 1:09:35 08-12-91 13680 <--> 13808
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
The resin, or Epoxy, does not stay sticky. It was developed as a
card control by Dick Koornwinder. Resin dots on the backs of the
cards -- like punched marks -- enable you to feel the value, or
whatever else you might wish the marking to tell you. You can't
let someone else handle them, but they are excellent for demo's.
Edgework is also a strong tool and can be done with the striking
surface of a matchbook, somewhat quickly.
Msg #13694 Dated 1:09:44 08-12-91 13681 <--> 13704
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I would guess the work updating the Master Index may have been
going on all the time, just not yet published...
Msg #13695 Dated 1:18:13 08-12-91 13597 <--> 13698
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: P & T
My lawsuit suggestion was only half-hearted, anyway, Dante. I honestly
believe that such a suit would only serve to give P&T some much-desired
magician-bashing publicity.
'W.
Msg #13696 Dated 1:26:29 08-12-91 13601 <--> 13707
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
Peanut butter and bacon with mayo!!! MMMMMMMMMM!!!!
Hearing that I would eat such a thing would give my internist a heart
attack!
'W.
Msg #13698 Dated 1:29:21 08-12-91 13655 <--> 13752
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
Absolute nonsense.
Msg #13699 Dated 1:40:12 08-12-91 13687 <-
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: W.BOX
Great...keep me posted. If Videotheque is a no-go, I'll make a coupla
calls.
'W.
Msg #13700 Dated 1:48:39 08-12-91 13606 <--> 13871
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Thanks Max, Franz was smiling when he told me
the name figuring I figured it out I assume.
Sometimes things tend to go a bit over my head
but that shoulda smacked me in the face.
Msg #13701 Dated 1:59:24 08-12-91 13639 <--> 13736
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
Bill did not throw away any letters regarding
the statue. They are on file-er- IN a file
not tossed.
Msg #13704 Dated 6:11:17 08-12-91 13676 <--> 13774
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Now you're talking.
Msg #13705 Dated 6:11:21 08-12-91 13679 <--> 13755
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: FAX LIFE
The stuff I have back to a year old is still pretty good, but it's
running at 5 -600 pages of stuff that I want to keep and right now
it's in piles. I'm starting to get nervous. I knew that you guys
would know the ansear to this one. Thanks.
Msg #13706 Dated 6:11:26 08-12-91 13686 <--> 13828
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
I don't think we discussed the Harkey book at all, Evan, and would
appreciate your thoughts on the book.
Msg #13707 Dated 6:11:30 08-12-91 13696 <--> 13753
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
PB&Bacon, one of Elvis faves. Oh well.
Msg #13708 Dated 7:01:51 08-12-91 -> 13712
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I am not blaming anything on the magicalumpen, I am using general
apathy as a reason to say that while such a study might be nice or
useful, I cannot see sufficient utility of the results to warrant it
being placed that high on the priority list of things we currently
have before us in the I.B.M.
By the way, magicalumpen is to me a delightful way of looking at the
shortcomings of the collective entity known as magicians. I applaud
Max for dreaming it up. It contains an touch of humor and that makes
more acceptable the criticism it also contains. If we cannot chuckle
at ourselves them we are a sad lot indeed.
Msg #13709 Dated 7:02:22 08-12-91 -> 13757
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Let me suggest that in addition to teaching high school classes that
include prelaw that we also prohibit lawyers from running for public
office! (at least I didn't say exterminate them!)
Msg #13710 Dated 7:02:29 08-12-91 -> 13720
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
In view of your feelings for plants, I would think you would welcome
the idea of Tabicus being a plant! Some of my best friends are
plants!...and he has certainly been about everything else, so why not
a plant!!
Msg #13711 Dated 7:02:41 08-12-91 -> 13795
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: OLD RESPONSES
...and You were there!
I don't suppose there is any chance you remember that show
is there?
Msg #13712 Dated 7:02:51 08-12-91 -> 13717
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Did the background music just change from Toccata and Fugue in D
Minor to "Oh, What a Beautiful Morning"?
Msg #13713 Dated 7:03:02 08-12-91 -> 13743
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MESSAGES
We will definitely try to get over there before the fall harvest. I
think the guy behind the bar was Speedy the Great who is prehaps best
know for his guitar penetration effect, which he apparently only
performs infrequently.
Msg #13715 Dated 7:03:57 08-12-91 -> 13716
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TRIX
Absolutely!, we don't want to create a Shillalumpen.
Msg #13716 Dated 7:04:06 08-12-91 -> 13724
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TRIX
I can certainly agree with that. In this case, I suppose one of the
benefits of bar magic is that the magicians is only seen from the
waist up!
Msg #13717 Dated 7:04:16 08-12-91 -> 13725
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
By all means stop in and say "hello", but be sure to make it a brief
enough greeting to allow you to continue on up the street to Al's on
Vermont Ave. Didya know that David Williamson used to work at the
MM?
Msg #13718 Dated 7:04:28 08-12-91 -> 13746
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LOS AMIGOS
Well...the other arrangement did occur to me. Howsomever, I wasn't
sure you would understand that to a biologist simplicity can be a
great compliment as a high degree of specialization ultimately leads
to the demise of the species. I suppose my hopes for the future of
the GloTab species were overridden by not wanting to run the risk of
hurting your feelings.
Msg #13719 Dated 7:04:42 08-12-91 -> 13764
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: NEW AGE MAGIC
But did you still want to be a side show magician after seeing one
work?
Msg #13720 Dated 7:04:52 08-12-91 -> 13722
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
I can see that I will be a very l-o-n-g time living this one down!
When we do go out to visit Nick and Jane, I will try not to take the
most direct route.
Msg #13721 Dated 7:05:00 08-12-91 -> 13731
From: BILL WELLS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
I don't really think any of the "magicalumpen" are on this board. I
also think "self-hate" (I really don't think thats the correct term) IS
being kept to ourselves. I really haven't seen anyone attacking any-
one on the basis of talent or ability. I have seen people rightly
voicing concern over those who call themselves magicians and display
the lack of judgement to venture forth before the public as supposed
performers without taking the time or expending the effort to learn
any performance skills. One of the great things abot magic i that
it has lots of room for lots of interest. One can be a collector, a
manufacturer, an inventor, one who learns a few tricks to share with
the boys at the local magic club meeting, a part-time pro (to use
Gene Anderson's terminology), or a full time professional to mention
some of the levels and degrees of participation. There is room for
everybody, but that should never mean those inconsiderate of others
and unwillingly to expend any effort to learn the basics should be
granted full rein to call themselves magicians without being subject
to criticism.
Msg #13722 Dated 7:05:43 08-12-91 -> 13741
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
He was barefoot at the time...probably to be more in tune with Mother
Earth.
Msg #13724 Dated 7:06:13 08-12-91 -> 13732
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRIX
No...as a matter of fact I seldom go to local magic club meetings.
Msg #13725 Dated 7:06:23 08-12-91 -> 13726
From: BILL WELLS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I am not sure we are saying anything different here. At least I do
not see anything to disagree with in what you said. The semantics
can be tricky (no pun intended!!). I was overstating the conditions
in an attempt to provide a basis in which a better focus might be
brought to a number of threads bouncing about on the board. In
reading through the download of the last days messages, I am pleased
to excellent responses by yourself, Tommy, and T.A. amoung others. I
am not going to qibble about whether all tricks are puzzles...some
are and some are probably not. Although I introduced the term "pure"
I am not sure what is pure magic and what is impure magic (although
I find your use of the puzzle mentality presentation as impure magic
quite appealing). I am trying to get at the elements of what it
seems a goodly number of us think are magic's problems. We know that
there are quite a few magic tricks that are very easy to execute. We
know that little talent or knowledge is required to acquire and do
many magic tricks. In fact, many non magicians do just that and
never claim to be magicians. I suppose there are another whole set
of issues regardling the sale of magic to nonmagicians but I don't
want to get into that here. It may even be OK for the "magicians" to
buy those easy tricks and do them in the local club meetings...at
least the public wouldn't be seeing them. Our problems seem to arise
when the tricks are presented in performances involving nonmagician
audiences. Apparently, some seem to feel that knowing a magic trick
gives them some right to march onto a stage without any appreciation
of the skills of theatre and perform for the public. Why do they do
this? Do they think they are truly magicians? The fact that some
charge a fee for this ineptness only compounds the sin.
Ours is a sacred trust that harkens to the dawn of man. Magic is the
Msg #13726 Dated 7:07:39 08-12-91 -> 13727
From: BILL WELLS
To: TOMMY WONDER (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I don't think I said that the basics of magic is the tricks. I was
trying to say that the trick itself is NOT enough to create art. I
overstated the case that the trick itself, could in its most basic
form be regarded as little more than a puzzle to be solved. I do not
feel this is art. The art comes from what the magician does in the
presentation of the mystery in the creation of magic.
I certainly agree with you that an important element of magic is that
it seemingly makes the impossible possible. Actually, I believe it
is the fact that man is overcoming the restrictions of the laws of
nature. However, that concept or the basis of the appeal of magic is
not art. I was trying to address the question of when magic is and
isn't art. I was trying to present a simplified situation that when
one executes a trick, one could possibly only be presented a puzzle
which hardy seems an expression of art to me (of course, art is in
the eye of the beholder). However, when a magician uses the
theatrical arts to create magic from this paradox, then it may be
that magic becomes art.
Although I don't fully understand what you are trying to say when
you say the art can never be in the tools themselves (certainly good
acting is an art!) and that it resides in the underlying thought (I
don't think of concepts as being art) I have a feeling we are saying
the same things and are only having some problems in understanding
the semantics.
Msg #13727 Dated 7:08:32 08-12-91 -> 13728
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I agree Tabby...I think part of our problem lies in the words we are
using and our understanding of those words. However, it does seem
that we are beginning to focus in on what is and isn't art when it
comes to magic.
Msg #13728 Dated 7:08:44 08-12-91 -> 13729
From: BILL WELLS
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Does that mean they threw cats in the pre-pesticide days?
Msg #13729 Dated 7:08:52 08-12-91 -> 13730
From: BILL WELLS
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Jerry Burton was the one in need of a BBS that carried the MAGICK
conference. If you know the number of the Wicked Scherzo, I am sure
he would appreciate it.
Msg #13730 Dated 7:09:02 08-12-91 -> 13742
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I beg your pardon! I DO NOT live in Maryland! The Crabbman lives in
Maryland. I live in the Old Dominion State, the mother of presidents
, the Commonwealth of Virginia, named for good Queen Bess, the virgin
queen. You, being a South Carolinian, should understand the
importance of such distinctions.
Msg #13731 Dated 7:09:16 08-12-91 -> 13733
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
Wow...David there are some thoughts in that one that bother me. I do
not think it commendable that physicians and lawyers are reluctant to
comment negatively on their colleagues. In fact, I think we might
all be a lot better off if they did! The AMA and ABA have covered up
lots of sins in both professions. I realize you didn't say it was a
desirable thing that physicians and lawyers do it, but in light of
earlier comments about "self-hate" (bad term) it comes across that we
magicians should not criticize our brethen.
Msg #13732 Dated 7:09:36 08-12-91 -> 13744
From: BILL WELLS
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: TRIX
I am tempted to say that shills usually know what they are doing, and
the same cannot necessarily be said of the audiences at the local
magic club shows...but I wouldn't do that.
Msg #13733 Dated 7:09:47 08-12-91 -> 13748
From: BILL WELLS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
Well said, Max. I applaud you!
Msg #13734 Dated 7:32:46 08-12-91 13651 <--> 13735
From: STAN LAKE
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
Thank you Max, Close-up Card Magic will be on my reading list during
this vacation.
Msg #13735 Dated 7:36:58 08-12-91 13671 <--> 13768
From: STAN LAKE
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
I'm sure you are right about kids being more sensitive and probably
more insecure about looking foolish in front of their friends. A lot
of it may be in the way I present this particular effect. I take the
responsibility for creating this ridiculous invention and I DON'T say
"Boy do you look stupid!" or anything else to make them feel like they
are the butt of a joke. In addition this is the last part of a four
part routine I do with them and they always walk away with a gift.
The way I have this worked out I just wouldn't be comfortable with an
adult in this situation. Now that I've found out it's been around for
a long time I'll probably drop it anyway! Thanks for the thoughts.
Msg #13736 Dated 7:55:13 08-12-91 13701 <--> 13754
From: STAN LAKE
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
That's good to know that Bill did not just toss the letters. However
I would have appreciated at least an acknowledgement from him. I have
written him several times about different topics and suggested improve-
ments and I never hear back from him. From now on I will address all
correspondence to the secretary so at least it will be read at the
board meetings.
Msg #13737 Dated 8:00:18 08-12-91 13684 <--> 13813
From: STAN LAKE
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: MEETIN'YOU
Likewise Evan, it was a pleasure to meet you and Jean. You don't have
to introduce her as your "Lovely" fiancee, that is stating the obvious!
If you ever happen to accompany her up here to horse country perhaps we
could get together? Lori and I love company so keep our number and
call anytime (818) 768-6181.
Msg #13738 Dated 8:12:59 08-12-91 -> 13850
From: STAN LAKE
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: CASTLE AUDITION
It was nice meeting you and Don for Brunch yesterday. I am on vacation
this week so if I can be of any help to you in routining for your
audition please give me a call at (818) 768-6181. We can go over what
you already have and add something new if you would like.
Msg #13739 Dated 8:16:51 08-12-91 -> 13886
From: STAN LAKE
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: LEN REID TRICK
David Lichtman and I both enjoy performing what we call the Len Reid
trick. That is the one where he has the spectator shuffle the cards
and the performer lays down three cards that match in color and value
to three cards the spectator will deal out. I haven't seen Len lately
so I thought you might know the origin of this effect. Any idea?
Msg #13741 Dated 8:24:29 08-12-91 13710 <--> 13747
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
Don't forget one of the best Card Plants growing which is GARY PLANTS
Msg #13742 Dated 8:24:33 08-12-91 13712 <--> 13745
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Sting; _The Soul Cages_!
Msg #13743 Dated 8:24:37 08-12-91 13713 <--> 13760
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MESSAGES
Scotty is coming over in a couple of weeks. He said he'd give you a
call so maybe you too...
Msg #13744 Dated 8:24:41 08-12-91 13716 <--> 13761
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
Actually, you're right. That means that bar magicians don't have to
wear pants.
Msg #13745 Dated 8:24:45 08-12-91 13717 <--> 13749
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Seems like Dave Williamson's work with Rocky helped make MM famous.
Msg #13746 Dated 8:24:49 08-12-91 13718 <--> 13771
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: LOS AMIGOS
I was just kidding, and view the approach toward simplicity as the
approach to purity. The simple solution is basically best. I have
tried to simplify things; life, work.
Msg #13747 Dated 8:24:54 08-12-91 13720 <--> 13769
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
But we will do it, visit Nick and Jane, that is.
Msg #13748 Dated 8:24:58 08-12-91 13721 <--> 13765
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
Well said, Bill.
Msg #13749 Dated 8:25:02 08-12-91 13727 <--> 13750
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I think that we're all closer to each other than our words would
imply.
Msg #13750 Dated 8:25:07 08-12-91 13730 <--> 13756
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
With roots in the Convict State and the Old Dominion I feel that I
must point out that Maryland is a contradiction and the southern
penninsula where Kraborg lies should have been part of Virginia.
Msg #13752 Dated 10:08:20 08-12-91 13695 <--> 13773
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
Wayne... I think you should get Shag and his two buddies to go and
beat up on P&T if you feel that way.
.
I don't agree with what is reported in their interview, but I think
they are excellent at their craft of producing original magic and
firmly believe they have developed a unique and VERY commercial
style for the market they have targeted. Laymen!
Msg #13753 Dated 10:08:29 08-12-91 13696 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ROBIN BOLTMAN
Didn't know you shared you food with someone.
Msg #13754 Dated 10:08:33 08-12-91 13701 <--> 13811
From: PETE BIRO
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
OK DANTE... have we heard your opinion of the contemporary statue
that adorns the fountain at the entrance to the Magic Castle?
I like it. I just don't like the location.
Wait... I got it... they are going to start having a drive thru
there, you can order the Chili, etc. and a Junk Magician will
do a quick trick while you wait, right at your car window.
Msg #13755 Dated 10:08:41 08-12-91 13705 <--> 13786
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FAX LIFE
I had a two page fax with me on this Vegas trip. It arrived just
as I was leaving and I grabbed it and stuffed into my camera case.
When I got down there I read it. Just this ayem, unpacking ONE OF
THE PAGES IS ALMOST FADED AWAY. Might have been the heat? Or it
maybe was in the sunlight for awhile. Not direct light but on a
table in the hotel room. Hope I can still read the needed info.
Will be copying it asap.
Msg #13756 Dated 10:08:50 08-12-91 13708 <--> 13759
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Hah hah hah hah (chuckling at ourselves)... Max came up with a
better word than I did... but I have, for years called that august
body, "Magilaymen" -- same folks.
Msg #13757 Dated 10:08:56 08-12-91 13709 <--> 13758
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Lawyers don't run for public office as much as they get appointed
while just standing still.
Msg #13758 Dated 10:09:00 08-12-91 13709 <--> 13793
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Hay, wait a minute Wells... where is your list of 10 tricks you can
do good. Or do we "lumpen" you in with a larger group?
Msg #13759 Dated 10:09:05 08-12-91 13712 <--> 13767
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I certainly like Toccata Cheese. I don't know about thier Fugue,
sounds like a dirty word to me...
Msg #13760 Dated 10:09:10 08-12-91 13713 <--> 13770
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MESSAGES
The last great magic trick I ever saw with a guitar was performed
at the Lido show in the Stardust Hotel. It was Dominique... doing
the "butterfly effect" (currently revived by Jade) he had the
buttterflies floating around the instrument powered by a small fan
inside the large part (Tabby what is the large part of the guitar
called?) (Don't tell me it is the player)
Msg #13761 Dated 10:09:19 08-12-91 13715 <--> 13763
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
To complete your research you should read a great book, titled,
"Stooging Around" by Joe Stuthard. Great stuff in there. Also see
latest Kaps letter re: Polaroid trick using a "rick" (rick is the
street word in London for stooge).
Msg #13762 Dated 10:08:57 08-12-91 13355 <-
From: MARVIN STERN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: PEOPLE
You might as well forget it. I gave it to David, but it does't look
like he is going to pass idt along.
Msg #13763 Dated 10:09:25 08-12-91 13716 <--> 13935
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
Franks Shields, in the bar (I guess you could call it that) was
often seen working full figure -- during fist fights and throwing
people out... but at the same time he continued to do the magic.
.
Greatest night ever there was when Dai Vernon came visiting and
huge fight broke out. Guys were laying out cold on the floor, and
Frank was picking guys up tossing them over the bar. One guy was
banging another with a pool cue stick, but Frank kept the Super
Count and the Memorized Deck going all the while! We had to step
over bodies to walk out the door!
Msg #13764 Dated 10:09:38 08-12-91 13719 <--> 13788
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: NEW AGE MAGIC
Who didn't (or doesn't) wannabe a side show magician? Hey, you get
to keep all the quarters you make soing the suckers the girl in
the box with out any clothes!
Msg #13765 Dated 10:09:44 08-12-91 13721 <--> 13797
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
I guess we will soon have to brand magicians. Maybe test them and
sell them different color-coded rings to wear.
Msg #13767 Dated 10:09:55 08-12-91 13726 <--> 13772
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
In the eyes of many, when I demonstrated (and at that time in no
way was a performer -- working behind the counter in a magic shop)
the Nickels to Dimes was "totally unbelievable and unexplainable
and to some in attendance ART".
Msg #13768 Dated 10:10:03 08-12-91 13735 <--> 13884
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
I wouldn't drop a trick just because "its been around for a long
time" -- if that were the case I would have to quit doing the
Linking Rings, since they have been with us since the turn of the
century when the Chinese discovered it on a trip through Bolivia
and bought the rights to perform it!
Msg #13769 Dated 10:10:10 08-12-91 13741 <--> 13789
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
Owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... hey who was it that actually had a potted
plant in the audience and called attention to it saying, "I work
with a plant in the audience".
Was it Frank van Hoven?
Or the guys that stole much of his material, Olsen and Johnson?
Msg #13770 Dated 10:10:18 08-12-91 13743 <--> 13787
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MESSAGES
Do you still have that sack of Brunswick Stew fermenting in the
basement?
Msg #13771 Dated 10:10:23 08-12-91 13746 <--> 13791
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LOS AMIGOS
I have simplified life here. I can work nearly all day in my
pajamas.
Msg #13772 Dated 10:24:41 08-12-91 13728 <--> 13783
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Only when we wanted to feed the dogs.
'W.
Msg #13773 Dated 10:30:30 08-12-91 13752 <--> 13780
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
I will never argue against the talent or skill of P&T...I am a former
P&T FAN! No matter how talented, no matter how skilled they may be...
it certainly doesn't excuse their mean-spirited attacks upon magi and
magic. What offends me most is that they don't NEED to be offensive to
be entertaining. In fact, their growing hostility both on and off
stage limits and dissipates their entertainment value for magi and for
laymen alike. I've heard many lay audience members remarking about
their overt hostility. The evolving concept of P&T seems to be a
barbed exposure, stripping magic of its magic. In my opinion, this
approach ROBS the audience of the wonder of magic....cheats the
audience from the entertainment paid for. Conceptually, this form of
"entertainment" ranks very low on the scales of merit, taste, integrity
and evolution.
'W.
Msg #13774 Dated 10:38:11 08-12-91 13681 <--> 13775
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Yes, I DO think the update of the Index IS a monumental task! Of
course, with funding anything is possible - the Library of Congress
card files were computerized - a project named REMARC - in only a
few years; much faster than I thought possible. T A is the one who can
probably tell us the likelyhood of this task being completed in magic.
Msg #13775 Dated 10:42:39 08-12-91 13690 <--> 13776
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Yes, traveling thru the books and wandering can be interesting and fun,
but one seldom reaches the goal one started for when that happens.
There was a fellow who once talked about perusing the Dialog databases
and said, "One awakenes with a start, to realize that one has paid for
every nanosecond of pleasurable dalliance."
Max is right - cards and coins are mundane. But, as someone pointed
out in the Island thread, they are versatile and probably afford the
most effects in the smallest package next to B Derek, which, I think,
was T A's choice of what to bring.
Msg #13776 Dated 10:50:04 08-12-91 13704 <--> 13792
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Apparently -- to myself! Thanks for pointing that out! I intended the
message for T A but was very tired. I have created a couple of fairly
major reference databases - two of which where a part of Dialog.
Msg #13780 Dated 11:05:06 08-12-91 13698 <--> 13781
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: P & T
Ow, face it Max - Without the publicity gimmick and the rabble rousing,
they are, at best, mediocre magicians. Their machine IS a publicity
machine, nothing more.
Msg #13781 Dated 11:07:28 08-12-91 13773 <--> 13785
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
BRAVO, Wayne! Well said!
Msg #13783 Dated 11:17:20 08-12-91 13708 <--> 13784
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I agree that Max's word is inspired - even if I don't like the "a" in
the middle. I was only referring to it's potential for misuse or abuse
as the cynical element in it is quite strong.
Another question similar to the Public Attitude survey has emerged -
does anyone have any estimate on the overall magic market? What amount
of revenue is generated from performances and what is generated from
book, trick, etc. sales?
Msg #13784 Dated 11:23:47 08-12-91 13730 <--> 13812
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
My humble appologies, Sir! I had failed to notice that you were a
Virginian. Such an error will not happen again.
Msg #13785 Dated 11:29:09 08-12-91 13752 <--> 13803
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
Ask the guy on the street to name two magicians and see what they say
I just asked the guy who came in the office to use the phone and he
said Houdini and Copperfield. Oh well, I was doing a P & T household
word test. Dentist receptionist called just now and said Houdini and
that guy Blackstone. Gloria just said, "what's the trick?" so she
doesn't qualify.
Msg #13786 Dated 11:29:16 08-12-91 13755 <--> 13800
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: FAX LIFE
Ya'll have gotten me nervous about all my fax stuff that I want to
keep forever. I don't have time to copy it for a couple of weeks
either. Woahhh..
Msg #13787 Dated 11:29:21 08-12-91 13760 <--> 13790
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MESSAGES
The big part of a guitar is box, body, and other b words.
Msg #13788 Dated 11:29:25 08-12-91 13764 <--> 14285
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: NEW AGE MAGIC
Life near the bigtop.
Msg #13789 Dated 11:29:28 08-12-91 13769 <--> 13794
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
I knew van Hoven was the man who made ice famous but never heard of
the plant in the audience.
Msg #13790 Dated 11:29:32 08-12-91 13770 <--> 14272
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MESSAGES
We killed it last week.
Msg #13791 Dated 11:29:35 08-12-91 13771 <--> 14275
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LOS AMIGOS
I am at work in my jamms and sneakers. My green t-shirt finally
caught Gloria's wrath and it has vanished.
Msg #13792 Dated 11:29:39 08-12-91 13776 <--> 13801
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I was using BRS_Books In Print_ from Bowker last night. They charge
2 bux a reference. Found the books I was looking for (3). An online
magic reference would be great but at those kind of prices who could
afford the charges hunting down variances of the four ace trick.
Msg #13793 Dated 11:26:56 08-12-91 13709 <--> 13804
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: LAWYERS
YES! One of my most cherished concepts! Lawyers have no business in
serving in legislatures.
I came across an interesting definition of Lawyer lately:
"An individual whose principal role is to protect his clients
from other members of his profession."
Which brings up another thought, one, which, I am afraid is going to
give Max and T A a moment of bad digestion. There are all of those
bumper stickers that proclaim the attributes of various professions -
"Telephone operators do it in three minutes" being an example. Has IBM
ever considered a bumper sticker for magicians? You know, something
like "Magicians do it with their wands" or something like that?
Msg #13794 Dated 11:33:44 08-12-91 13710 <--> 14270
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
Indeed, my benevolent attitude toward plants was included in my comment
about the Tabman. There was also, however, at least a triple entendre
based on the other uses of the word, hence the quotation marks.
Msg #13795 Dated 11:36:45 08-12-91 13711 <--> 14294
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: OLD RESPONSES
My memories of the actual show are a bit dim. But our first PC arrived
about 60 days later. The first PC sold outside of IBM was purchased by
Peter Norton.
Msg #13797 Dated 11:50:38 08-12-91 13731 <--> 13941
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
As I recall, I was neither being critical nor approving of the
cover-ups performed by some professions. But I do feel that criticism
of magician colleagues in front of laypersons should not occur just to
feed the ego of the critic.
Msg #13800 Dated 11:59:41 08-12-91 13786 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FAX LIFE
Keep it cool and dark. That will substantially increase the lifespan
of a fax. Probably a good idea for magic too.
Msg #13801 Dated 12:00:38 08-12-91 13792 <--> 13872
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Yes, on-line reference IS costly. Lately there has been a trend toward
placing some of the huge databases on CR-ROM. You have to have enough
potential purchasors to justify it, but then the disc and its updates
become theirs and they can search to their hearts content. Generally,
tho, these disc versions cost a LOT initially - anywhere from several
hundred to several thousand dollars. Creating a goood index is a very
labor intensive task - the best generally cost about $30 PER CITATION
to build. There are some ways to cut corners, but you usually have
some tradeoff in quality as well. Someone has got to pay the freight,
either on-line or in a large fee for the CD-ROM.
Msg #13802 Dated 12:32:28 08-12-91 -> 13805
From: DARRELL MURPHY
To: ALL
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Well the David Roth lecture has come and gone and baring all
the technical difficulties with the wide screen TV setup, I
think the lecture came off pretty good.
To get the lecture off to a good start the company
(Rent-A-Center) that we (Ring 21) contracted to provide the
wide screen TV was two and a half hours late and when they
did finally show up, the wide screen that they brought was
broken and not working properly. On behalf of Ring 21 I
would like to extend our apologies to those that
participated. You can be assured that this company will NOT
get our business again!!!
David Roth on the other hand was exceptional and provided
about seven hours of lecture which seemed like about an
hour. As Cindy said "I could have stayed for another two
hours". He actually did two lectures. He did his old lecture
and his new lecture which has a lot of new material.
Actually he told me at lunch that he was trying this new
lecture out on the California tour and was really curious as
to how people would accept it. Judging from the audience
response and the responses on this board I would say he has
nothing to worry about.
The first lecture consisted of the following effects:
SHELL COINS ACROSS, THE FUGITIVE COINS, THREE-COIN CLICK
PASS, FLURRY AND JUMBO COIN PRODUCTION, THREE BALL ROUTINE,
THE ENDLESS CHAIN (FAST AND LOOSE).
The second lecture consisted of the following effects:
WILD COIN, STONEHENGE, COIN IN A BOTTLE FINALE, EDGE GRIP
TECHNIQUE, WINGED SILVER WITH EDGE GRIP.
As Cindy already stated it's almost impossible to go into a
blow by blow description of what went on in the seven hour
lecture and I don't think I have the RAM available to do it.
There was one effect however that I really found to be
interesting and if coupled with a good set of patter and
routining could be developed into a fantastic act and that
is the ENDLESS CHAIN or sometimes known as FAST AND LOOSE.
Like 3-Card Monte, the game is a swindle, and the performer
is in complete control of the game at all times. However
like David said "If it's not done right you end up pissing
people off rather than entertaining them".
Msg #13803 Dated 14:02:01 08-12-91 13780 <--> 13809
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
I donwanna argue, but P&T are far from mediocre performers. They
have something few have... S T Y L E, and consistency... and a lot
of very original stuff!
Msg #13804 Dated 14:02:07 08-12-91 13793 <--> 13807
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LAWYERS
You have nearly sent me away with the bumper sticker... punchline.
Think about it. Is there any worse example of bad taste than your
line!!!!!!
At least you could have said something like "Magicians do it
Mysteriously" -- or -- With ART (whoever he is)? -- or -- With Skill
-- or -- invisibly... but with Wands.... arghargharghargharghargh.
Msg #13805 Dated 14:02:16 08-12-91 13802 <--> 13842
From: PETE BIRO
To: DARRELL MURPHY (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Have you ever seen a real cheat do Fast and Loose? I have, but with
the original ... his belt.
There is a lot of good material on this effect. I wish I could have
seen Roth to learn the premise. Funny co-incedence, I have my
long gold chain on the old poker table now and have been working
with it. Jules Lenier used to do a good routine where he gave the
spectator some silver dollars to bet with... naturally Lenier ended
up with all the money!
There is another version where you end up with an added loop, snuck
into the routine and spectator is convinced he is 'IN' and you take
the chain away only to leave him/her with a 4-inch diameter loop!
Msg #13807 Dated 15:51:54 08-12-91 13804 <--> 13814
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Could it be, that the Magic Circle's reluctance to allow women
members is based on their fondness for _wand_ related humor?
Msg #13808 Dated 15:53:14 08-12-91 13693 <--> 13831
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
The resin spots more, or less noticeable to a layman handling the dech
than punched cards? Seems to me punched would be hard for a layperson
to notice, but who knows.
Msg #13809 Dated 15:55:05 08-12-91 13780 <--> 13810
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
They have defined themselves AGAINST something ("standard" magi),
rather than defining themselves AS something. This willI believe, lead
to a shorter shelf-life for their careers. They could change gears,
which I assume they are mulling over as we speak(?). We can debate
over B-way ticket sales all we want, but the truth is they're just not
making the same splash they did a few years ago -- the shtick's old.
And Copperfield, whose "Shtick" consists of quality magic -- will last,
because quality never tires.
Msg #13810 Dated 15:57:30 08-12-91 13803 <--> 13816
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
They do -- but certain of their actions are reprehnsible.
Msg #13811 Dated 15:58:39 08-12-91 13754 <--> 13833
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
My fiancee now joins you in the VERY thin ranks of people who like the
sculpture. She thought it was "funny," and that art was intended to
illicit a response. I locked her in a dark closet until she agreed
with me.
Msg #13812 Dated 16:01:21 08-12-91 13708 <--> 13882
From: EVAN KATZ
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I do not believe "magicalumpen" is an example of "chuckling at
ourselves," as it is frequently used, as much as it is a vehicle for
laughing at others.
Msg #13813 Dated 16:10:19 08-12-91 13737 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: MEETIN'YOU
You got it!
Msg #13814 Dated 16:20:41 08-12-91 13793 <--> 13823
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LAWYERS
It's already been done, unfortunately.
Msg #13816 Dated 16:20:59 08-12-91 13780 <--> 13818
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
I am getting tired of this discussion which appears to be based on a
substantial lack of information on your end. I have absolutely no
interest in trying to get you to like Penn & Teller; nor do I have any
problem with your public criticism. Indeed, I think it is healthy that
not everyone likes the same magicians -- one of the great problems with
magic is the attitude that everyone should like everything. I just wish
your critical comments had some basis in reality.
The fact is that Penn & Teller work very, very hard on developing their
material. Routines can take months or even years to write, and are then
honed and re-honed in performance. You may loathe the results, but do
not falsely state the situation.
No, I will not agree that they are "mediocre magicians." If you were to
see their full-evening show, in addition to various routines which I've
no doubt you would find abrasive and offensive you would also
experience some of the finest magic currently being done in this
country (e.g., the needles and the shadow routine).
Believe it or not, Penn & Teller love magic; what they hate is most
magicians -- there's a difference. I'm not suggesting that this is a
particularly laudable attitude, although I think it's easily
understood. But your comments indicate that you believe that their
material is artlessly tossed together without much thought, and that is
simply not the case.
The comments recently quoted here that Penn made in a magazine
interview are, to me, worthy of scorn; I don't think he should be
re-writing history this way. Similarly, I disapprove of _your_
comments, as they also state half-truths as "facts." You do not know
what makes Penn & Teller tick. Condemn the results, by all means, but
don't pretend to know what's going on beneath the surface.
In actual fact, Penn's bravado in claiming that they orchestrated the
complaints from the magic community is untrue. It did indeed begin with
magicians running off their mouths, almost always without having seen
the show in the first place.
I don't really have any desire to continue this thread, as I don't
think it's going anywhere. The last thing I have the inclination to do
is to try to convince you to like Penn & Teller's work. Please,
continue to hate them -- but for your own sake, hate it for the right
reasons.
Msg #13818 Dated 17:14:57 08-12-91 13803 <--> 13819
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
Regarding P & T, we are once more at the impasse we were the last time.
So I think we will do well to let the matter once again drop. Until
they do their next bit to rattle my cage, at least.
Msg #13819 Dated 17:16:54 08-12-91 13809 <--> 13822
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: P & T
Thank you, Evan. You have again added clarity and insight to the
discussion. But this seems to be a matter where everyone already has
their minds made up and all we are doing is contributing to Mallox
sales.
Msg #13820 Dated 17:25:57 08-12-91 -> 13826
From: TABBY CRABB
To: ALL
Re: MAIL CALL
Recently finished _From Witchcraft To Card Tricks_ by Stephen
Minch. I did enjoy what would have made a great magazine article
put into monograph form by Hermetic Press (Minch's company), on
nice paper, and signed and numbered (500 copies). The 7 x 8.5,
paperbound book has 29 numbered pages and touches on the major
books of magic, paying particular attention to table magic,
written from 1584 through 1897 and dedicated on researchers Max
Maven and Ton Onosaka. Those newly interested in research might
want to pick up a copy and gain a view into the researcher's
mind.
.
Don't often fall for a dealer's ad for a trick, but when I waw
the _Psychic Golf Ball_ I knew I had to order one. Boy, did I
have a good laugh today when it arrived. I was hoping it would at
least look like a golf ball (it sorta does if you squint). I'm
gonna play around with it and will let you know. Might be good
for some grins on the golf course too. I think I like it, but
magic?
.
Found some Conradi side tables today and will get to look at them
when I get back from Tennessee next week. I'll be gone from
Thursday to next Tuesday and unless I find a terminal at the
studio will be offline.
.
Magical Publications, _Howard Thurston Illusion Show Workbook_
arrived but will have to wait to look over. Maybe while I'm on
the road to pass the time, but it's really a nice looking book,
slipcase, etc and would hate to funk it up while hanging out with
a bunch of wild indians.
Msg #13821 Dated 17:26:19 08-12-91
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: MAIL CALL
Package arrived. Many, many thanks for your time. Will view later
tonight.
Msg #13822 Dated 17:19:50 08-12-91 13816 <--> 13832
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: P & T
I have no doubt that Penn & Teller work hard on their material. And I
think you will note that I have never not given them credit for that.
I have tried very hard to keep an open mind about them and, as I once
mentioned, had it been possible, I would have attended their B-way
show.
But hard work does _not_ equate to either creativity or "art." I have
tried to view as much of their material as possible - that which is
accessible to me, largly television - and, frankly, I find that, at
least in my subjective opinion, their material _is_ mediocre at best.
I DO NOT "HATE" THEM. Although I do find many of their publicity methods
deplorable. I try to reserve my hate for worthier targets.
As has been suggested - all of us seem to take an emotional, rather
than intellectual, view of their work and while the discussion is
interesting, we seem to do little other than annoy each other with it.
I would, therefore, suggest that, once again, until the next time they
trigger the ire of someone here, that we return to the many topics
worthy of this group's interest.
Msg #13823 Dated 17:29:43 08-12-91 13804 <--> 13824
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LAWYERS
RE: Magicians do it with their wands - You were dozin' at your
terminal. I wanted to wake you up.
Msg #13824 Dated 17:30:18 08-12-91 13814 <--> 13830
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LAWYERS
RE: Magicians do it with their wands. I'm sorry to hear that it has
already been done. Yetch!
P.S. - Do you happen to know where I could get a couple of the bumper
stickers?
Msg #13826 Dated 17:38:33 08-12-91 13820 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAIL CALL
Thanks for your review of From Witchcraft. And of the Psychic Golf
Ball.
We will miss you for the weekend and will look forward to your return.
Go easy on the road.
Msg #13828 Dated 18:43:34 08-12-91 13706 <--> 13829
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
I have definite thoughts on the book. In summary, I don't think it's
really all that terrific. And I think this for a variety of reasons.
There ARE some good routines in the book, and there are a few of them,
so I run the risk here of being told that three good effects make the
price worth it. But this is not how people respond to stimuli in their
daily lives, and it's not how I drew up my opinion of the book.
First, there is a hurried feeling to many of the routines and effects.
As if Harkey had stumbled upon an idea and fished around with it,
without REALLY honing it into the best routine possible. I believe the
majority of the effects in the book come under this label -- not
completely thought through. Second, and most annoying to me, were a
large number of effects that just seemed obvious. Obvious meaning that
it seemed like any spectator with a half a brain could backtrack
through the effect and recreate the method. Noe, I have to make this
criticism with a real qualifier -- I haven't TRIED those effects on
people, so I can't say for sure.
But, again, there are some good effects in it. It' also interesting as
a study of how the guy thinks -- he really does take a different
approach than most. Perhaps not as different and effective as Paul
Harris -- peharps as different.
I'm much rather have a book like "Workers," wherein the effects have
undergone a major winnowing process.
And, in summary, I'll throw something in which will thourougly confuse
you -- I think I have an inuition for what you might like, and there
are some offbeat methods and ideas in there you might enjoy on an
intellectual level, rather than the level of practical performing.
When and if you get it, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Msg #13829 Dated 19:20:17 08-12-91 13828 <--> 13836
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
You're right, Evan. It is intellectual stimulation that I'm after.
I do want to be put in a situation where I have to think. I look cons
tantly for ideas, thoughts, even mad mutterings to trigger a flash
of inspiration. I am interested in the offbeat and the way out as
well as the traditional. I am also driven by my interests of the
moment as well as interests of a lifetime. I will pick up a copy of
the Harkey book. I wish I had ordered it a few days ago so I could
toss it in my old briefcase and read while DD Mann drives me to
Nashville Thursday.
.
I know what you mean about being frustrated by the author's seeming
hurry in putting the material together, and I'm sorry to hear that
but I have enjoyed his ideas in the past, though I find much of it
unworkable in the practical sense as opposed to books like Mike Close
_Workers II_ which goes into detail which can only be noted through
practical (nightly) experience.
.
If the book leaves you feeling a little empty, maybe you'd consider
letting me take the book off your hands. I doubt that I make any
arrangements to pick it up before I get back from Tennessee next
week and don't think there are any magic depots on the Skyline Drive.
.
I am interested in most everything that reaches print, not that that
in itself gives the work importance in the broad scheme; but my
interests also lie in trying to understand what authors in this
field deem important enough (outside the obvious desire for financial
return) to put so much time and energy into. You see, it is my goal
to at some point in the future to also enter the publishing frenzy,
not as author or hero, but as publisher. We (my cohorts and I) have
our first in the works now with two others on the back burner. Why?
Because we can, but only history will reveal if we actually do any
good for magic or not. The best way to learn about books is to spend
time with them, and spend time I do.
.
Now, about that Harkey book???
Msg #13830 Dated 19:37:14 08-12-91 13807 <--> 13841
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LAWYERS
i WAND say so...
Msg #13831 Dated 19:37:19 08-12-91 13808 <--> 13839
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
TRY MAKING BOTH PUNCHED CARDS AND RESIN CARDS. In my fumble opinion
both are easy for laymen to notice. Less NOTICABLE is too
noticable. Besides, as Frances Carlysle used to say, "Does
Heifitz let you touch the fiddle when he plays?"
.
So, don't let ANYONE get their mits on the props.
Msg #13832 Dated 19:37:27 08-12-91 13809 <--> 13834
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: P & T
Do we know that P&T are making less money these days?
Msg #13833 Dated 19:37:31 08-12-91 13811 <--> 13856
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
Were you in the closet as well? I mean you must've been nearby, so
you could find out if she agreed.
Msg #13834 Dated 19:37:36 08-12-91 13818 <--> 13835
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
I had many in the IBM that complained like hell about Penn and
Teller. Then, then... when P&T were in the area went to see the
show, wanted to meet them and later told me what a great show they
had just seen.
.
All their screaming was done without ever seeing them work... it
was all based on heresay!
.
Argh for sure...
Msg #13835 Dated 19:37:48 08-12-91 13818 <--> 13838
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
Let me and Max hope that next time P&T "rattle your cage" it is
with an OPEN DOOR!
Msg #13836 Dated 19:37:53 08-12-91 13828 <--> 13860
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
If a book stimulates your thinking and leads us to new effects, then
it can be a success.
.
Who was it that recently said, "IF you write a book on HOW TO FAIL
and it doesn't sell, were you a success?"
.
Ah, Ron London at the past Baltimo' IBM convention.
Msg #13838 Dated 20:01:46 08-12-91 13835 <--> 13846
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
My door is always open to good magic, good theater, etc. I don't have
to like it to acknowledge that it is creative or well-done. Nor do I
have to like the people doing it in order to make that acknowledgment.
Msg #13839 Dated 21:09:06 08-12-91 13831 <--> 13861
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
Gazoo MaKee punches up a deck in a few minutes while he's fumbling
around with the cards. Punches only lst about 20 minutes and are then
GONE. Gazoo will be doing the Close Encounters of the Magic Kind in
Rochester in November. Had some good laughs with Gazoo at FFFF and
look 4ward to seeing him at Rochester. He is an excellent busker too.
Msg #13840 Dated 21:09:15 08-12-91 -> 13892
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PROFESSOR EL-TAB
Just noticed an ad in Shpinx for a book _Magic of The Atomic Era_ by
Professor El-Tab. Ever heard of the Professor (El-Tab, I mean)?
Msg #13841 Dated 21:20:08 08-12-91 13793 <--> 13843
From: STAN LAKE
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LAWYERS
I have seen either a license plate holder or a bumper sticker that read
"Magicians Have Bigger Wands". Don't know if that was sanctioned by
the IBM or not.
Msg #13842 Dated 21:29:16 08-12-91 13802 <--> 13852
From: STAN LAKE
To: DARRELL MURPHY (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I enjoyed the Roth lectures very much also. I was somewhat
disappointed when I got home with the lecture notes. I kept asking
during the lecture if this or that was in the lecture notes so I would
know what to make notes on and what I could just watch. We were told
repeatedly that everything was in the notes. However, he did not have
notes on the different retention vanishes or his palming technique
among other things. I still think it was a very worthwhile lecture
however, with my memory I need all of the help I can get with notes!
Thanks for helping to put it on!
Msg #13843 Dated 21:34:24 08-12-91 13841 <--> 13847
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: LAWYERS
"Magicians Have Bigger Wands" was probably not sanctioned. After all,
it isn't the size of the wand, it is the quality of the magic that
makes all the difference.
Msg #13846 Dated 21:46:43 08-12-91 13803 <--> 13854
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
So did Charles Manson. Integrity, value and merit are the things I
look for and seem to be lacking in P&T.
'W.
Msg #13847 Dated 21:53:08 08-12-91 13793 <--> 13883
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Ack!
'W.
Msg #13849 Dated 22:14:13 08-12-91 13685 <--> 13857
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YO
I'm telling you, Evan, a wig, some great rhinestone earrings, you'll be
great! It was terrific meeting you & your significant other as well.
Hope it's not an isolated event.
Msg #13850 Dated 22:15:20 08-12-91 13738 <--> 14010
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: CASTLE AUDITION
That's really nice of you Stan. It was nice meeting you & Lori (sp?)
also. Hopefully, I'll hit a calm spot in my schedule this week and toss
some ideas around with you.
Msg #13852 Dated 22:38:26 08-12-91 13842 <--> 13889
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I was disappointed with the lecture notes also! At least I finally know
who kept asking if the moves were in the notes! You're right, the
retention vanishes are just barely touched upon, although he used them
extensively. The Ross Bertram vanish he used at the end of the "Coins
Across" is also only mentioned in passing in the notes. And, if you'll
notice, the three-ball routine in the notes is quite different from the
routine he did! The basic moves are almost all there, but there are
some key differences.
Msg #13854 Dated 0:13:25 08-13-91 13832 <--> 13865
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
No, we don't know if P&T are making less money these days, and I
certainly did not indicate that in my message. I know their B-way/off
Broadway show experience some trouble, but I am uncertain as to what,
if any conclusions to draw from that, isolated event. Which is why I
said "we can debate over the ticket sales all we want, but..." The
point I was making was that they are not making as big a "splash" as
they were -- you don't get that same level of media excitement. This
is, in part, because there is something gimmicky about their
I-hate-magicians approach, and this gets old. Great magic, on the
other hand, does not get old. I'm NOT saying they don't do great
magic, but rather that they have sold themselves in large part on the
"we're not like other magicians, we hate other magicians, aren't they
jerks" approach.
It's always somewhat ironic to speak in these terms when P&T are one of
the very, very few magic acts to gain any kind of national attention.
I still submit we should draw a lesson from them -- the lesson being
to change and update our presentations, NOT that we should comport
ourselves rudely, expose classic effects, and misspeak the facts in
print.
Msg #13856 Dated 0:20:36 08-13-91 13833 <--> 13880
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
I am not in the closet. Never have been.
Msg #13860 Dated 0:38:11 08-13-91 13829 <--> 13863
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
I've only given the Harkey book a cursory glance, so I cannot comment
on the material (although I do find his ad insisting that this is the
book I've been waiting for to be laughable). However, if you crave
stimulating conjuring literature I can recommend a few recent books
that have impressed me more than most: Jim Steinmeyer's "Device and
Illusion" is excellent. The magic is good and practical, but that is,
to me, the least of it -- what is of real value is his opening and
closing remarks for each effect, in which he discusses various
theoretical aspects and relates them to the creation of a given item.
Truly stimulating stuff. Also, I heartily recommend Juan Tamariz' new
"Sonata," which offers some terrific material and some autobiographical
ramblings which are delicious reading.
Msg #13861 Dated 0:42:00 08-13-91 13831 <--> 13874
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
Properly applied, punch work is subtle enough that it cannot be
discerned by an uninformed person.
Msg #13863 Dated 1:06:31 08-13-91 13860 <--> 13897
From: T A WATERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
I will second your opinion of the Steinmeyer DEVICE AND ILLUSION tome,
as my review in the current (August) Genii will confirm.
Msg #13865 Dated 1:09:00 08-13-91 13773 <--> 13870
From: T A WATERS
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
A problem P&T have created for themselves is their billing as "The Bad
Boys of Magic" -- wanting (not unreasonably, all things considered) to
distance themselves from magic-as-usual. The problem is that they have
to keep justifying it, leaing not nly to a sort of desperateness
(here I will disagree with Max), but also to a very one-note sort of
image, at least in their television appearances. I think they happen
to have picked a premise for differentiation that gets old very
quickly, and it is going to create problems for them. People tend not
to warm to performers whose basic thrust is one of negativity, and
that's how they are increasingly perceived.
Msg #13866 Dated 1:14:15 08-13-91 13547 <--> 13917
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CASTLE TRIP
Great - I saw at the Close-up Conjurer's Conclave last year and reall
y enjoy his work.
.
Are you going to book Sylvester the Jester ?
Msg #13868 Dated 1:14:25 08-13-91 13603 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: MARRIOTT
Ok sounds good I penciled it in, see you then.
Msg #13870 Dated 1:13:50 08-13-91 13803 <--> 13875
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
P&T are indeed very talented performers -- but I don't think that, so
much as their tactics, has been the thrust of this thread.
Msg #13871 Dated 1:14:32 08-13-91 13596 <--> 13918
From: JERRY BURTON
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
I saw Shag's cousin at the castle last night and he said the boys
really enjoyed doing the Abbotts show. I wonder how Randy missed
them - oh well maybe Pete can book them for SLC. Maybe next time you
see one of them you could see if they have a tape to send Pete. I kno
w they have a 8mm movie version, but I don't think he wants that.
Msg #13872 Dated 1:14:40 08-13-91 13681 <--> 13887
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
What if every member of MAGIC! each took a book and provided info
on its content in a specified manner. We could then write a program
or even us Randy Lunds pgm to create our own index. Anyone interested
???
Msg #13873 Dated 1:14:45 08-13-91 13683 <--> 13902
From: JERRY BURTON
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
I went down to the mfg today and am having him make me up some real
special stuff. I had a brainstorm last night. The have heard of the
Geller effect, wait till you see the Burton effect. Might be strong
enough to start a new religion.
Msg #13874 Dated 1:14:49 08-13-91 13693 <--> 13881
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
In Burgers lecture he mentions using 3 dots of crazy glue on the
back of a 'locator' card to perform some really great cut to card
effects. The impromptu method is to use a quarter pressed into the
back (on the bicycle deck a quarter is exactly the same size as the
2 circles on the back) to create a 'locator' card. I have tried both
methods and the super glue works great.
.
You can have a person fairly pick a card, (have to the locator on the
bottom) have them put the card back on the top of the deck and
immediately cut the bottom half to the top (bringing the locator just
above the selection). You can then square the deck and place it on th
e table. The next cut you make brings the selection back to the top.
.
It really works quite well for card-klutzes like me. Burger credits,
Kornwinder with the crazy-glue idea. Who is responsible for the
quarter press ?
Msg #13875 Dated 1:15:03 08-13-91 13816 <--> 13877
From: JERRY BURTON
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: P & T
I agree with you Teller IS a good magician ! Both of the effects
you mention are done by Teller alone. Penn on the other hand takes
away from the magic with his mouth.
Msg #13877 Dated 1:22:14 08-13-91 13816 <--> 13879
From: T A WATERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: P & T
Max -- this is not an attempt to have the last word (there are some
things which even I will not try) -- but I do wish to point out that
*I* love magic and hate most magicians...but that doesn't mean that I
think P&T's approach is anything other than ill-advised.
Msg #13879 Dated 1:26:18 08-13-91 13877 <--> 13900
From: MAX MAVEN
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: P & T
Yup. As I have indicated to our Sysop in a private message, I consider
this revived discussion to be one destined to go nowhere, so I hereby
withdraw from it.
Msg #13880 Dated 1:26:53 08-13-91 13811 <--> 13915
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
I presume you meant "elicit" since "illicit" means criminal -- oh, wait
a second -- my apologies, I guess you were correct...
Msg #13881 Dated 1:27:46 08-13-91 13874 <--> 13905
From: MAX MAVEN
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
The glue dots are, as noted, credited to Dick Koornwinder (note
spelling). The pressed coin is credited to Will DeSieve. A related idea
was the subject of a worthwhile pamphlet by Ted Lesley which was
published by Micky Hades a few years ago; title, I recall, was "The
Kismet Connection."
Msg #13882 Dated 1:29:30 08-13-91 13726 <--> 13929
From: T A WATERS
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Where acting is concerned, most commentators make a distinction between
creative art and interpretive art.
Msg #13883 Dated 1:32:43 08-13-91 13793 <--> 13888
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Don't get me started.
Msg #13884 Dated 1:37:51 08-13-91 13768 <--> 13922
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
I drop a trick if it's been around longer than fifteen minutes -- and
anyone else is doing it.
Msg #13886 Dated 1:38:57 08-13-91 13739 <--> 13894
From: T A WATERS
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: LEN REID TRICK
Isn't this in the Bannon book? I know it was in some tome of the last
year or so.
Msg #13887 Dated 1:39:10 08-13-91 13872 <--> 13901
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I've thought of it - let's see what others think of the idea.
Msg #13888 Dated 1:40:00 08-13-91 13883 <--> 13908
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Funny! - I have one of those cars that "talks" and it says the same
thing - with or without a bumper sticker.
Msg #13889 Dated 1:40:17 08-13-91 13805 <--> 13909
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
It should be pointed out for those as pedantic as myself that the belt
trick and the endless chain are two very different things,
topologically speaking. A lot of the confusion comes from the chain
routine having had the Pricking The Garter name attached to it by peopl
who didn't realize that garters were not, as they usually are now,
endless loops, but rather small belts -- and the doubled belt game
played with them wathe garter effect referred to. One still sees the
two confused in various books and references.
Msg #13892 Dated 1:45:49 08-13-91 13840 <--> 13903
From: T A WATERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PROFESSOR EL-TAB
His name was Al Battle; he had some stuff in MY BEST, I believe.
Msg #13894 Dated 1:48:47 08-13-91 13886 <--> 14017
From: MAX MAVEN
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: LEN REID TRICK
Your description was too vague -- at least for me. Give me a more
complete rundown and perhaps I'll recognize it.
Msg #13895 Dated 1:49:56 08-13-91 -> 13953
From: MAX MAVEN
To: SYSOP
Re: STICKERS
Just spoke with Japan. The name-stickers we've been discussing are
properly called "senja-fuda" -- sen = 1000, sha (which changes to "ja"
in this context) = Shinto shrine, and fuda = paper. The stickers were
originally used by pilgrims, who would visit shrines away from home and
put up their name-stickers on the entrance gates. They're still used
this way, but also in many other secular circumstances.
Msg #13897 Dated 7:27:33 08-13-91 13860 <--> 13898
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
_Device and Illusion_ is a great book and you're more than right, his
comments are all worth reading, in fact I suggested to a friend in
private that he get AND READ this book, and then read it again. My
copy has already gotten a worn look. I haven't gotten _Sonata_ as of
yet but it is on my must have list as are Juan Tamariz other books.
.
Re: The New Tells...Wooooah. The final multi-CB stunt is freightening
This is all guts and skill, right??
.
I'm afraid much of the literature is laughable and the claim in that
great Harkey ad is probably the one reason I haven't gotten the book
yet. It seems like it was Harkey in the _Box Impossible_ photo with
Jerry Andrus?? and I took that as some sort of endorsement by Jerry
for his (Harkey's) work and have to ASSUME that there must be a good
reason for that.
Msg #13898 Dated 7:27:47 08-13-91 13860 <--> 13899
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
PS. Anytime you run across good, stimulating literature, lemme know.
Appreciate it.
Msg #13899 Dated 7:27:52 08-13-91 13863 <--> 14004
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
What kind of cloth is the cover, covered with. Any idea? It is a
nice book just to look at.
Msg #13900 Dated 7:27:56 08-13-91 13865 <--> 13904
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: P & T
Back when all this started, I stated that their careers had peaked
at that point and because they didn't make that jump to super stardom
they would begin having problems with the money people who always
want things to happen quick and in a big way. After preparing for tha
tv show that I got bumped off of, I had a chance to get "into" Penn's
head and have developed a feeling for the man. I wish they would find
a new horse to ride. They must be feeling the frustration having to
beat that poor lame horse. I did an informal survey all day yesterday
asking locals at the post office, hardware store, kids in the
recording studio, etc to name two magicians and no one named P & T
which surprised me. Houdini was first out of every mouth and the
rest were DC, HB, and one DH.
Msg #13901 Dated 7:28:09 08-13-91 13872 <--> 13919
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RESEARCH
That is a step, Jerry. Perhaps add to that an area that lists each
"reviewer" and their interests and experience so that the researcher
might furthur be able to understand the various compliers' background
s. Actually, I know the way you are setting this up would not provide
for opinion. Any ideas on the _specified manner_? We should draw on
the knowledge of the Castle Librarian in a project of this type whicj
could potentially be a valuable contribution, though I'm afraid that
the project would end up falling on just a few shoulders. Potentially
though - cofuld this be done?
Msg #13902 Dated 7:28:19 08-13-91 13873 <--> 13920
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
Careful Burton, you know what happens to most holey men.
Msg #13903 Dated 7:28:23 08-13-91 13892 <--> 13906
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: PROFESSOR EL-TAB
Al Battle, a one time magic dealer in the San Francisco area, but
where did he come up with Professor El-Tab? Thanks, TA I didn't know
who he was.
Msg #13904 Dated 9:09:52 08-13-91 13838 <--> 13911
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
OK bwahna, well sed... but what was the question?
Msg #13905 Dated 9:09:56 08-13-91 13839 <--> 13916
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
I dig... a real punch worker (not the Punch and Judy kind) will get
the work in and it will wear out pretty quick. Just long enuf to
make the daily bread.
.
The DEGREE of punch used my most magicians is about as subtle as
a manhole cover... and for demo work that is fine. It is still a
magic trick and you don't let the customers handle the toys...
.
The best version is NO PUNCH NO WORK -- USE SORTS... ie: Get decks
that are different in feel and/or look. I know a BJ dealer (now on
the security side) that uses that method, feel of the cards from
one deck to another and puts the 10 values from a ROUGHER deck into
a smoother deck... and look out...
Msg #13906 Dated 9:10:11 08-13-91 13840 <--> 13924
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PROFESSOR EL-TAB
Msg #13908 Dated 9:10:29 08-13-91 13841 <--> 13910
rom PTE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Subtle folks those bumper sticker makers... argh... I doubt if it
was _sanctioned_ by the IBM, maybe the POPE fer chrissakes...
Msg #13909 Dated 9:10:34 08-13-91 13842 <--> 13913
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The _TROUBLE WITH MOST LECTURERS_ and I am not faulting Roth, or
anyone else... things like a _Retention Vanish_ ** _A Palm_ ** etc.,
are conidered by them things EVERYBODY SHOULD ALREADY KNOW...
.
I remember doing a rope effect and the lead in was "First do the
old shoelace false knot " -- which I just breezed through, then
into the ORIGINAL BIT OF MINE... and what do you think happened.
A million SHOUTS... "whoa, how do you do the shoelace knot?"
.
At the level of a person's skill that IS A LECTURER you can't
believe that attendees DON'T ALL KNOW THAT SIMPLE BASIC STUFF.
Msg #13910 Dated 9:10:47 08-13-91 13843 <--> 13962
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LAWYERS
ok, i WOULD JOIN THIS dumbassed thread... but I have a breakaway
wand... yargh
Msg #13911 Dated 9:10:52 08-13-91 13846 <--> 13914
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
Well if you are going to bring Chuckie Babe into it I can't argue
with that... what was the question?
Msg #13912 Dated 9:10:58 08-13-91 13849 <--> 13956
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: YO
Gee, if your patter is as snappy as your reply to KATZman, you
should have no trubble with your castle audition.
.
Would you mind revealing the content of the act you plan to do?
And when is it... perhaps we can give you some support (are non
board of examiner types allowed to watch?) Nothing better than
some friendly faces and smells around one when the pressure is
up... you can fool about doing tricks for "buddies" and then when
the real thing hits... can treat it as an extention of that moment.
Msg #13913 Dated 9:11:09 08-13-91 13852 <--> 13923
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I might be wrong, but the Roth Book would probably be a wise choice
to add to the shelf. AFTER J. B. BOBO coin magic. You don't need
300 coin routines... a good effect in the spectator's hands, a
clean and EASY TO UNDERSTAND PLOT coins across is good to have
and a variant of Han Pin Chien can't hurt you either.
.
As a woman you might want to get an Okito Coin box of some kind
that resembles a powder, makeup or pill box like you might carry
in a purse... this would be a NATURAL looking gaffe you could have
some fun with.
Msg #13914 Dated 9:11:22 08-13-91 13854 <--> 13925
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: P & T
YOU HIT IT ON THE OLD NAIL HEAD... Change and Update presentations.
There has to be MORE approaches than any one or dozen performers
can think of or do... but howcum they all do the same. They all
buy the tail suits, birds and cards with Norm Nielsen's picture on
the back...
.
I sometimes KNOCK the Chavez approach... it is not the BASE that I
knock... it is the fact that SO MANY take the course and come out
and do the basic act they are taught... BUT IT IF YOU LOOK AT THE
CHAVEZ GRADS that have MADE IT... NONE look like the same act...
Channing Pollock, Norm Nielsen and Don Alan. I always use these
three guys as an example of having LEARNED the basic skills and
finding THEMSELVES and projecting themselves.
.
I just saw an excellent 'SKILLED' performance but in a tux it was
all wrong. The act should have been wearing black trousers, a
striped T-Shirt and a cap... much like the old cliche look of a
newpaper boy of the 30's and the ACT WOULD HAVE KILLED. The
personna in the Tux did not match the material. I am writing this
thought up and will present it to the performer.
Msg #13915 Dated 9:11:46 08-13-91 13856 <--> 13957
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
There are some good things in the Closet. Fibber McGee used to
find that out alla time. There is an old coat I should wear, I
think the lapel width has come back... One closet I don't want to
check is Terry Seabrooke's. SEVENTEEN years ago I left a Tux in
his and I know the English Moths are very efficient... I bet all
that is left is the wire hangar, sans the white cardboard piece!
Msg #13916 Dated 9:11:55 08-13-91 13861 <--> 13921
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
See my early msg regarding use by "lumpen"
Msg #13917 Dated 9:12:00 08-13-91 13866 <--> 13964
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: CASTLE TRIP
I have already booked Sylvester... he killed 'em at the IBM in
Baltimore on the Comedy Club show, along with MC Ron London, Bob
Sheets and David Williamson. WHAT A SHOW... Many came back all
three days to see it!!!!
.
If you are referring to Sylvester at the Desert Seminar, it is a
CONTEST and we don't book them, they enter... HE HAS SENT HIS ENTRY.
.
If anyone has not seen the Jester... It has been many, many years
since I have seen anyone WITH SO MUCH ORIGINAL material along with
downright skillfull applications... I showed his tape to Tommy
Wonder last week and TW was amazed, and really crazy about Sylvester
and his work.
Msg #13918 Dated 9:12:15 08-13-91 13871 <--> 14028
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
No, I don't have any way to view an 8mm movie... wait, I used to
look at reels holding them up to the window, with a pencil holding
the main reel, checking the girls one frame at a time...
Msg #13919 Dated 9:12:20 08-13-91 13872 <--> 13955
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Sure... Someone (YOU?) has to make a FORM for us to fill out. I
will be happy to do it, but to get any quantity EACH member needs
to do about 20-50 books.
.
Mebbe if we had a simple Database, and all used the same one, we
could do our libraries, each have our own and then merge them all
into one? Too hard? Hey, we have years to do it... and we could
print it and sell it and give 10-percent to the system? 20? 21?
Msg #13920 Dated 9:12:30 08-13-91 13873 <--> 13926
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
Remember, any new religion starters, I already have (R) the name,
"MENTAL KARATE".
Msg #13921 Dated 9:12:35 08-13-91 13874 <--> 13961
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
The "coin" press has been around for a long time. I once bought a
gaff that was a circle from a Bicycle deck cut off one card and
glued to the back of another. There is an even BETTER way that has
just recently been seen, that came from gamblers. I can't tip her
(correction) here, because it was taught to me in confidence.
.
The "resin" control is Dick Koornwinder's creation. I think you
will find the dots of resin glue need to be on the face, not the
back of the card. Every deck I own gets the dots on the Queen of
Spades. Borrowed cards either get the Pat Page Crimp or recently
the modus of the gamer I just learned.
.
If you have a Koornwinder card in the middle of the deck with a
card you wish to force one below it... TRY THIS... toss the deck
out and away from you VERY CASUALLY on a slick surface, LIKE A BAR.
You will note that the deck will break into two sections (not a
complete break -- that is TOO MUCH throw power). You say to someone
near the cards, "Just grab one card out of the middle of the deck,
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH ONE...." (If you treat this as casually as
you can... 90-percent of the time they will grab the force card,
because it is EASY...it sits there like it has a handle on it, and
they figure you are far away and cannot control it.
Sometimes I say, "Just look at it and put it back in the same spot
then cut the cards a few times and give them to Fred over there to
cut, and Fred you give the cards to Betty to cut..." You will ot
not believe how often the deck gets back to me with the chosen
card on top! If not one cut gets it there. If it is on top, immedi-
ately palm it and hand deck to people on the other side to do a
series of cuts.
.
Yu can then say, 'I HAVE NOT TOUCHED THE CARDS... YOU TOOK IT
OVER THERE, THEY CUT IT, ETC ETC."
.
If you can't make a miracle out of that... you are not BIZARRE ENUF.
.
Another KILLER is to apply some daub to a spectator's finger and
have someone take a card put it on the table and have the daubee
"hold your finger on it so it cannot be lost" while others shuffle
the deck... then after they shuffle you say, "Oh you didn't put the
card back in the deck... please do so" -- then more shuffles, and
you figure out the ending... but you can find it like a champ.
.
Last time I did that a gal had been showing off here engagement
ring... I loaded her fingertips with daub and an hour later did
the miracle... when I got the deck back the fingerprint was on
the top card. When it came from the wallet I just thanked them
and left! (The card was signed)
Msg #13922 Dated 9:13:22 08-13-91 13884 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: TEN CARD TRICKS
No problem with that. I just hope you didn't spend a year or two
learning it. Of course one can DROP a trick in certain environments,
such as the Castle, and keep it for private work for live, real
spectators that do not see magic often.
Msg #13923 Dated 9:13:29 08-13-91 13889 <--> 13963
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Yah they get confused, but the plot... "Put your finger in the Loop"
and I get the money makes one think they are the same.
.
The example I briefly mentioned was quite bizarre.
.
I was with a group of race car people (driver, car owner, sponsor
etc.) having dinner. Maybe 12 at the table. Dan Gurney (the boss)
asked me to do some magic for the folks... so out came a deck of
cards. IN NO TIME AT ALL one guy, Named "Teddy Yip" (a multi-
millionaire from Macau -- who owns two bordelo/CASINO joints there,
as well as the Hydrofoil across the harbor in Hong Kong, etc.)
grabbed the deck from me and started doing Three Card Monte... for
friends... AND KEEPING THE MONEY!!! The restaurant manager came over
and said "NO CARD TRICKS OR GAMBLING ALLOWED" and took the cards!
.
In a flash, Yip had his belt off and was doing the scam... I could
not believe how gullible these people were. And you could see the
skill YIP had, that must have been learned on the streets in the
orient... I mean, if I had "tipped" what he was doing, or said
"don't bet any money the game is crooked" he, (even as a longtime
friend) would probably taken me out back and broken some of my
fingers!!! The intensity in this guy doing this stuff was scary!
Msg #13924 Dated 9:13:52 08-13-91 13892 <--> 13927
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: PROFESSOR EL-TAB
Aha, another one that knows of Al Battle!!! I must run and look to
see what I have on him. I recall a great frontispiece photo of him
in a book Lloyd Jones gave me years ago.
Msg #13925 Dated 9:13:57 08-13-91 13900 <--> 13954
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: P & T
Charlie Miller used to say, "I stood on the steps of the Library
and asked people to name magicians" or "if they liked the Hippity
Hop Rabbits" or.... etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseum...
.
One time a guy did that in NY about race driver names... and he
was really surpised. Sure most said, A.J. Foyt, Mario Andretti and
Unser (there were and are several Unsers) but the real surpise
was many named an Englishman (now deceased from plane crash) named
Graham Hill. Why Hill? A little research found that he had come to
upstate NY a number of times and in fact won the big race up there
THREE TIMES IN A ROW!
Msg #13926 Dated 9:14:11 08-13-91 13902 <--> 13980
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
Holey men usually have what they drink leak out all over the place.
Owwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Msg #13927 Dated 9:14:15 08-13-91 13903 <--> 13967
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PROFESSOR EL-TAB
I will go look for his book before I file these replies. Hang on...
...... pause.... looking.... oops.... wrong shelf.... still
looking..... hmmm, what's this book? Gee didn't know I hadthis..
hmmmm.... FOUND IT... IT IS...
6 1/8 X 9 1/8, Sort of a Pearlescent silver gray, Hard bound, but
with three black metal fastners along the spine...124 Pages. NO
TITLE ON OUTSIDE... strange tipped in photo of "PROF. EL TAB" (his
spelling) with rubber stamped address "PROFESSOR EL-TAB, Suite 327,
Grand Hotel, San Francisco, Calif." below picture. Paper book is
printed on is ORANGE COLORED with black ink.
Autographed in upper right corner, dated 1914 "New York CIty"
Title of book on pg. 3... 'PROTECTION -- THE SEALED BOOK' 3rd Ed.
1911. Published by the AUTHOR, "JOSEPH E. MEYER"....
HAH...WUZ I WRONG... IT WAS NOT A BOOK BY EL TAB, BUT ONCE OWNED
BY THE PROF... SORRY ABOUT THAT... Well, at least yu can see what
he was in to...
It is a killer book on gambling and devices!!!
.
Sorry. El Tab is dead, Long live the El Tab....
.
bye
Msg #13928 Dated 9:45:14 08-13-91 13004 <--> 13969
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: SEMI-ELECTRONIC POSTCARD
I believe that both the I.B.M. and the S.A.M. have funds for the aid
of magicians in need. The I.B.M. has the Fleming Fund and I believe
the S.A.M. fund is called the Houdini Fund. I think the S.A.M. fund
may be for hospital or medical costs. Tony Shelley also manages a
list of I.B.M. members willing to sponsor memberships for non USA
members who are unable to get funds from their countries to paid for
their dues. I don't believe any of the above are intended as general
help funds, they are for members and have specific areas of aid.
Msg #13929 Dated 9:45:37 08-13-91 13029 <--> 13932
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
What I saw was the "Evening with..." version of their madness. It
was absolutely delightful. But whatever happen to Peter Cook? He
was as good as Dudley.
Msg #13931 Dated 9:45:57 08-13-91 13044 <--> 13958
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WIRELESS MIKE SYSTEM
Great Story! How was he as a speaker? Did he ramble about or stick
somewhat to a topic?
Msg #13932 Dated 9:46:05 08-13-91 13051 <--> 13933
From: BILL WELLS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
A definition would be helpful...maybe Max gave a definition when he
first introduced the term. If he did, I didn't see it. Too me, it
is simply a faceless unthinking mass that simple copies anything it
sees or hears with no understanding. It probably doesn't copy very
well either unless it is at the xerox machine.
Msg #13933 Dated 9:46:22 08-13-91 13052 <--> 13934
From: BILL WELLS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Apparently he must be, however he must not be working that much...he
was far too good to go unknown and unheard of if he was active.
Msg #13934 Dated 9:46:30 08-13-91 13069 <--> 13939
From: BILL WELLS
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I believe it was GOOD EVENING that I saw the two of them perform. He
was equally as brilliant as Dudley Moore and together they were
devastating! I am surprised that he didn't become a star as well.
Msg #13935 Dated 9:46:41 08-13-91 13081 <--> 13942
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRIX
You ARE a mood!
Msg #13936 Dated 9:46:47 08-13-91 13094 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TEN BEST TRIX
Maybe he is trying to form the Snottylumpen.
Msg #13937 Dated 9:46:51 08-13-91 13119 <--> 13968
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MEMBERS IN THE NEWS
They are mailed by zip codes in batches, not by addresses' names. I
am always one of the last to get it and I have never been able to do
a damn thing about it!
Msg #13938 Dated 9:47:00 08-13-91 13124 <--> 13986
From: BILL WELLS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: "STAMP"
The Avery labeling program is very nice. We used it to produce the
clear stick on labels for the convention badges in Baltimore this
year. Now that we have our "feet wet" with it we hope to more fully
utilize the program's potential next year.
Msg #13939 Dated 9:47:12 08-13-91 13126 <--> 13982
From: BILL WELLS
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I am glad to hear he is still active in some fashion. He was
absolutely brilliant when teamed with Dudley Moore.
Msg #13940 Dated 9:47:22 08-13-91 13128 <--> 13987
From: BILL WELLS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: LAS VEGAS
Is this the famous Cyril Keller of Balamo? The ones who doesn't tip
but flashes a lot? Welcome aboard!
Joe, Jay, and Pete will have just left Vegas a day or so before you
arrive. Well, I should say Joe is leaving on the 22nd, maybe Pete &
Jay will still be around. Hey, Pete...talk to this man! He only
knows how to do the side steal but otherwise is OK.
Msg #13941 Dated 9:47:38 08-13-91 13131 <--> 14021
From: BILL WELLS
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
Cindy...nobody is attacking you or really attacking amateurs. Most
of us would fall into that definition. I would be surprised if you
come ever become one of the magicalumpen, you have said too many
things that 1. show you have intelligence, and 2. that you care
a great deal about magic. Both of these prevent you from being a
magicalumpen.
Msg #13942 Dated 9:47:56 08-13-91 13144 <--> 13943
From: BILL WELLS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: TRIX
It is not a rumor. Bush used to personally visit Al's Magic Shop in
Dee Cee when he was Veep. Now he sends in the Secret Service Agents.
Msg #13943 Dated 9:48:05 08-13-91 13163 <--> 13945
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRIX
Actually, the restaurant is still excellent just more crowded and
more expensive. It exist in a run down shopping center in Northern
Virginia not far from an intersection called Bailey's Crossroads
where the Bailey of circus fame used to live and spend the winter
with many of the animals from the show. Bush began going there when
he was Vice President and continues to go while President. Aside
from the bullet proof glass in the windows and the many photos on the
walls you would never expect him to show up in the place. It is the
kitchen staff that hates for him to show up!
Msg #13944 Dated 9:48:28 08-13-91 13173 <--> 13947
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
Don't forget the potential of flash cord which releases the self
destruct mechanism that then causes the flash bill to destroy itself.
Msg #13945 Dated 9:48:35 08-13-91 13186 <--> 13946
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TRIX
He hasn't discovered my favorite Japanese, French, or Italian
restaurants yet. For that matter, he hasn't discoverd Tabby's
favorite Dee Cee Tex-Mex place yet either.
Msg #13946 Dated 9:48:46 08-13-91 13324 <--> 13948
From: BILL WELLS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: TRIX
I have heard it postulated that in the event of a complete nuclear
destruction there would probably be a beer can floating somewhere
with a cockroach on it. What they forgot is that the cockroach
would probably be unsuccessfully trying to eat a sprig of Kudzu.
Msg #13947 Dated 9:48:57 08-13-91 13373 <--> 13949
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
Don't forget the possibility of adapting a coin tube (as in plastic
and as used by coin collectors) to use as a coin holder.
Msg #13948 Dated 9:49:04 08-13-91 13471 <--> 13959
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TRIX
Damn...you are tipping ALL the good stuff. Now how are us Back
Easterns EVER gonna sneak Kudzu into California? Of course, it will
probably grow there on its own unless the med fruit fly likes it.
You know, we couldn't cut the stuff fast enough until they invented
Weed Eaters. If you got close enough to try cutting it with a Bush
Wacker it would jest grow right over you. Tabby probably remembers
this as well.
Msg #13949 Dated 9:49:24 08-13-91 13552 <--> 13971
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
There was also another style of coin dropper that hung horizontally
so that the stack of coins fell out sideways into the curled fingers.
I don't recall the name of it, but it resides someplace in the magic
morass in one of my closets.
Msg #13950 Dated 9:49:35 08-13-91 13592 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: GERMAN MARKS TO US DOLLAR
.5790 as of last Friday
Msg #13951 Dated 9:49:41 08-13-91 13663 <--> 13972
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
I hate you! I am a grown up ... own my house...and STILL don't have
room for my model train layout, my books and periodicals, and my
electronic gear...or my workshop....or my modeling stuff.
Msg #13953 Dated 10:09:15 08-13-91 13895 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: STICKERS
Very interesting! Thank you for tracking Senja-Fuda down. Of course,
at my level of Japanese, it is going to be a bit hard to work into a
conversation.
Msg #13954 Dated 10:13:50 08-13-91 13904 <--> 13966
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
The "question" to which I replied that "my door is always open to good
magic, good theater, etc." was your comment that you hoped that the
next time that P & T rattled my cage that my door would be open.
Msg #13955 Dated 10:18:56 08-13-91 13901 <--> 14015
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: RESEARCH
There is a questionnaire capability within MAGIC! that could allow
members to answer questions on a variety of different topics. The
answers could be dynamically stored in a file that could be downloaded.
_Theoretically_ it could be set up to interface with the architecture
of MAGIC2DB or MAGIC3DB. One problem could potentially occur if there
was more than one entry per book - I don't know how MAGIC-DB would
handle that.
On a practical level, it does mean that someone would have to create
the questionnaire, properly coded for MAGIC! And folks would have to
be willing to input the data. Exciting concept, but it will take a bit
of time.
P.S. - Right now, back here at Techy Heaven, we are working on a new
release of the MAGIC! software - scheduled for about a month from now,
it will have some nice new user features that I think everyone is going
to like.
Msg #13956 Dated 10:32:02 08-13-91 13912 <--> 13997
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YO
It is, of course, up to Cindy, but I think she should not tip her
audition act prior to performing it. Certainly, she can ask for
specific advice, etc. and/or can tip to folks like you in private.
Msg #13957 Dated 10:33:48 08-13-91 13915 <--> 13998
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
Pete - Tell the whole story! Tell Evan that the tux you left in
Seabrooke's apartment seventeen years ago had a bologna sandwich in one
of the pockets.
Msg #13958 Dated 10:37:55 08-13-91 13931 <--> 14509
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: WIRELESS MIKE SYSTEM
He basically read one of his stories to the audience, which was pretty
much what I had wanted him to do. He did a good job. I've seen him
speak elsewhere and he is quite good.
Harlan (Ellison) is quite a character. I wish I had maintained the
connection.
Msg #13959 Dated 10:42:29 08-13-91 13946 <--> 13960
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
That is one of the best descriptions of Kudzu I've ever seen.
Msg #13960 Dated 10:44:17 08-13-91 13948 <--> 13970
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
Kudzu is wonderful stuff. In South Carolina the Welcome Wagon used to
carry pots of it to give to new residents who were moving from the
Northeast.
Msg #13961 Dated 10:46:44 08-13-91 13905 <--> 13978
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
OK, I guess I'm telling on myself but it's true. Most decks are cut
a little different and you can cull the tens from one deck (or what
ever) and put them with low value cards from another and spot them
from the back easily. With the punch, if you don't make too much of
an impression it will be gone in a short time. There is a guy I know
(will not name) who can wear a small punch in a game and punch and go
while you're sitting there (for demonstration purposes only, har!).
Seeing a holdout shoe made for blackjack games sent shivers up my
spine first time I saw it.
Msg #13962 Dated 10:46:53 08-13-91 13908 <--> 14001
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Only bumper sticker motto I can think of (guess you would of had to
of been there) is:
DAVE WILLIAMSON DOES IT BETWEEN THE SHEETS AND THE JESTER!
Msg #13963 Dated 10:46:58 08-13-91 13909 <--> 13965
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
You know, that gives me an idea for a future event and that is to
have a lecturer specifically for beginners for a night before kind
of thing going over basic stuff. What do you think? Or would everybod
shun such so nobody would know they were a beginner? Dunno...
Msg #13964 Dated 10:47:04 08-13-91 13917 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CASTLE TRIP
Ditto SYLVESTER THE JESTER! and an easy guy to work with, might I
add.
Msg #13965 Dated 10:47:08 08-13-91 13923 <--> 13973
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Interesting story about yo friend YIP. He's probably learned it the
hard way...."Get the f**ing money!"
Msg #13966 Dated 10:47:12 08-13-91 13925 <--> 13979
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
Would imagine that if the two magi question was posed on the streets
of NYC that P & T might have come up. I was surprised since they have
been on the tube much lately that no one mentioned them.
Msg #13967 Dated 10:47:17 08-13-91 13927 <--> 14099
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PROFESSOR EL-TAB
I guess the name will become somewhat associated with gaming and
gaming devices once again. Thanks for the info. El-Tab II
Msg #13968 Dated 10:45:57 08-13-91 13937 <--> 14514
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MEMBERS IN THE NEWS
Well, I apparently got my August Linking Ring earlier than many on the
East Coast. What I haven't gotten is the August Inside Magic. I
called and they were sent on time. I'm going to go call again if it
isn't in one of my P. O. boxes today.
Msg #13969 Dated 10:47:22 08-13-91 13928 <--> 13981
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SEMI-ELECTRONIC POSTCARD
I felt like there must of been something available to help in the
IBM and SAM.
Msg #13970 Dated 10:47:26 08-13-91 13945 <--> 13985
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
Los Amigos....an island in the desert.
Msg #13971 Dated 10:47:29 08-13-91 13947 <--> 13990
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
That's a good idea and disposable too.
Msg #13972 Dated 10:49:55 08-13-91 13951 <--> 13995
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
Don't hate me too much - along the way I GAVE AWAY the train! A
classic Lionel smoker. And I lost most of my toys. Also dumped my
comic book collection when we moved. Who knew? If I'd had some of
that suff today, I'd be living in a bigger house! Also, of course,
probably had some very interesting magic items - although I think most
of those are still around someplace.
Techy Heaven does have several rooms given over to books and
periodicals, electronic gear, cameras, and various other necessities of
life.
Msg #13973 Dated 10:55:41 08-13-91 13963 <--> 14002
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Do the beginner's workshop as an EXTRA CHARGE event the night before.
Also, sell copies of Mentzer's Counts, Cuts, Moves and Subtlety at the
registration desk.
Msg #13978 Dated 13:22:49 08-13-91 13905 <--> 14000
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
What's a good material to use for "daub?"
Msg #13979 Dated 13:23:33 08-13-91 13865 <--> 13996
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: P & T
Yes, the negativity rule is a good one. Interesting that they were so
successful with a negative apoach for so long. The only conclusion I
can draw from this is that they were tapping a deep, rich well of
animosity toward standard magi -- and that is something the community
as a whole still needs to address.
Msg #13980 Dated 13:29:20 08-13-91 13873 <--> 14030
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
Can't wait to see it, Jerry.
Msg #13981 Dated 14:32:26 08-13-91 13928 <--> 14516
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SEMI-ELECTRONIC POSTCARD
Who do I file with for financial aid?
Msg #13982 Dated 14:32:30 08-13-91 13929 <--> 13984
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
"Evening with..." not sure if that was the same show as I saw in
London, titled "Behind the Fridge". I think they changed the name
in the US of A to "Good Evening" but not sure... mebbe Shag's
manager can fill us in...
Msg #13984 Dated 14:32:43 08-13-91 13934 <--> 14029
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Did they (Cook and Moore) use the Trap Door entrance for the first
scene in act II?
Msg #13985 Dated 14:32:48 08-13-91 13935 <--> 13988
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
Did you spell MOO wrong? It came out MOOD... which is Past Tense,
and as far as being tense... it is in the past... 4now.
Msg #13986 Dated 14:32:53 08-13-91 13938 <--> 14521
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: "STAMP"
Hope the program allows BIGGER type... I had to get so close to
a person to read their name I could actually (in some cases) smell
who it was before I could read....
Msg #13987 Dated 14:32:59 08-13-91 13940 <--> 14522
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: LAS VEGAS
I can't stick around Vegas, got already a cheeeep airtickee that
you cannot change...
Msg #13988 Dated 14:33:04 08-13-91 13942 <--> 13989
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
But do the secret service agents TELL, or can they keep secrets?
Msg #13989 Dated 14:33:07 08-13-91 13943 <--> 13991
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
Why? Does he like his Gohan (Rice) well done? Or is it his Sushi
well done? Oh, no that's Japanese food. (And Mike Caldewell's line).
Msg #13990 Dated 14:33:12 08-13-91 13944 <--> 13992
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
Old "eyebrowless Jones" used to use the flash cord a lot...
Msg #13991 Dated 14:33:16 08-13-91 13945 <--> 13993
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
Well what are you doing... tell the SS where to eat.
Msg #13992 Dated 14:33:20 08-13-91 13947 <--> 13994
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
Why not just send to Ireland (AKA Magic Inc.) and buy the trick
legitimately!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then you have the rights to perform it.
Msg #13993 Dated 14:33:25 08-13-91 13948 <--> 13999
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
I just bought the cheapo weed eater at TARGET, under $20 bucks.
When I finished chopping the edge of the ivy, lawn etc., my new
white shoes changed to green!
Msg #13994 Dated 14:33:30 08-13-91 13949 <--> 14034
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
I didn't like that holder, was to slow to unload (Compared to the
Ireland tube). I just dug out the Ireland tube and it is great!
Also have found several dozen gaffed decks of cards. Many in Mint
Condition (no Frog, that does not mean GREEN). Am going to put 'em
all in one place and catalog them. So there.
Msg #13995 Dated 14:33:38 08-13-91 13951 <--> 14515
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 3
You should have kept the other house just for your 'STUFF' -- I
don't know... maybe you could use a room in the Building Scotty
York works in in the U.S. Fed. Govt.
I remember one time visiting him and asked where a phone was I
could use. He said "go down three doors there is an empty office".
I could have set up and started a business there... no one wojuld
have noticed!
(Note: remove all J's from above text).
Msg #13996 Dated 14:33:48 08-13-91 13954 <--> 14006
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
I knew that... was just harrasing you... as a RDMAGIC user, it is
tuff for someone with NO MEMORY GLANDS to recall the questions.
Msg #13997 Dated 14:33:54 08-13-91 13956 <--> 14007
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: YO
I don't see what "tipping" a list of items would have to do with
being approved or not at the Castle. Do they care what tricks are
done? Are they not just tryin to see if someone CAN MERELY PERFORM
THE TRICKS WITHOUT EXPOSING THEM?
Mebbe someone that knows can tell me (all of us) just what the
test is like? Who attends and what is expected.
Msg #13998 Dated 14:34:02 08-13-91 13957 <--> 14008
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
Wrong Lichtman.... it had a boloney sandwich in each pocket!
Msg #13999 Dated 14:34:06 08-13-91 13960 <--> 14005
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TRIX
Where can I get some Kudzu?
=== END OF MAGIC-48 ===
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