MAGIC! - 49
The following was compiled from the magician's message section of
MAGIC!(tm). MAGIC! is an electronic communications system for
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magic information. Copyright 1991 by MAGIC!, All rights reserved.
Msg #14000 Dated 14:34:10 08-13-91 -> 14003
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
The real way to build a Punch Deck is usually DURING a game. I
know a couple of dudes that do this. One wears it in a bandaid.
Msg #14001 Dated 14:34:15 08-13-91 -> 14037
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LAWYERS
You have been getting to much rest. Between the Sheets... arghh..
Msg #14002 Dated 14:34:19 08-13-91 -> 14009
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
What if nobody like counts, cuts moves etc... Maybe we should just
have a quiz from the Tarbell Course!!! It is all there. I just
had a call from a performer that wants to add 1.5 minutes to his
act and I suggested a routine from the Tarbell Course. He loved it.
Msg #14003 Dated 14:34:26 08-13-91 -> 14036
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
Daub. Use Daub for daub. I don't know and substiture. Oh, there is
a book somewhere in the stacks... that does suggest all kinds of
substitures. Maven knows? I think the author is Litzau (willk go
look) (also I htink a Marlo Book exists on the subject). HOld on..
OK... MARLO says buy it from a Magic Shop and the Silvefr or Golden
Glo is his recommendatjion.
HOWEVER... Irv Weiner's manuscrjipt... "Dabling with Daub" talks
about both being available from a magic shop. I suggest you try to
get these books. Marlo for sure.
Now, Weiner has lots of ideas on HOW TO GET AND APPLY it secretly.
but also suggests substiturs. Lipstick. Flesh-coloredcreamy makeup.
Carbon paper (a piece glued to a card, like the Joker) and even
g
Msg #14004 Dated 14:50:31 08-13-91 -> 14027
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
Regarding the final piece on the tape, if you watch him set it up again
you'll spot a minor cheat. However, it really is minor -- just a means
of controlling accuracy -- and I wouldn't be in his shoes for any
price!
Years ago his older brother, Hans Pantar, moved to the U.S. One of the
first things he did was to perform on the "It's Magic" show that the
Larsens were still producing. He did two sets, one being the crossbow
act. One night I was asked to fill in for an absent performer, and
after my set I was hanging out in the stage right wings (all of the
preliminary firing is done toward stage left). He began setting up the
crossbows for the final ricochet routine, and it was only at the moment
he was pulling the trigger that I suddenly realized that in this
routine some of the arrows were heading toward the stage right wing. My
heart started beating normally sometime within the next hour or so...
Msg #14005 Dated 15:29:28 08-13-91 -> 14033
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRIX
I think it is illegal to import Kudzu into California. But give it a
week or two and it will be here from South Carolina.
Msg #14006 Dated 15:32:00 08-13-91 -> 14023
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
There is a fancy method that would allow you to use RDMAGIC to keep one
back file along with the current file, but it requires concatenation
and I know you don't like to concatenate.
Msg #14007 Dated 15:35:24 08-13-91 -> 14041
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YO
I donno, I just would have been leary of tipping my Castle audition
prior to doing it. Invite bad luck, who knows? I think that the
audition rules are rather vague.
Msg #14008 Dated 15:37:05 08-13-91 -> 14047
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
Where the heck did you get the _bread_ for 11 bologna sandwiches? I
heard that there was also a dead fish in the toppit.
Msg #14009 Dated 15:39:23 08-13-91 14002 <--> 14011
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
OK, so you want the beginner's session to be for _real_ beginners. OK,
how about this for a course outline:
o How to tear the shring wrap off the box.
o How to open the box without loosing the gaff before you get
a chance to see it.
o How to toss the instructions and make sure that you never, ever
see even one word of 'em.
o How to figure out how the trick works the first time you perform
it.
o How to get the best deal on business cards as a magician (Hint:
buy 'em used from another guy).
'Zat doit?
Msg #14010 Dated 15:58:24 08-13-91 -> 14014
From: STAN LAKE
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: CASTLE AUDITION
I hope you can find a calm spot this week. I had planned on getting a
lot done today myself but I spent nearly SEVEN hours at a car dealer
having a couple of fan belts put on. Glad I had a deck of cards with
me!
Msg #14011 Dated 16:04:32 08-13-91 -> 14012
From: STAN LAKE
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
If he would have had additional reference notes or his book available
I would have gladly purchased it also. It would have been even better
if I could have tvideo taped the darn thing; one of my favorite means
of seeing how something is SUPPOSED to look like. The fading memory is
a poor substitute for actually seeing how it should look.
Msg #14012 Dated 16:07:37 08-13-91 -> 14013
From: STAN LAKE
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
That has been touched on before here. If you lecture at the lowest
level of knowledge in the audience you will bore everyone else. I
always like to ask what kind of moves, sleights, etc. should I know in
order to attend this lecture? If a lecturer would simply make a list
of things that a person should know and have it available in ample time
before the lecture then it would give newer magi time to look these
things up beforehand. I have been working on a retention vanish for
quite some time but the one he showed us at the fingertips was
different and right now I can't reconstruct it from memory. If I would
have known the lecture notes were incomplete I would have taken better
notes myself.
Msg #14013 Dated 16:13:56 08-13-91 -> 14020
From: STAN LAKE
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I think it would be a good idea if you had an outline available before
hand so they could make their own determination on whether or not they
need it.
Msg #14014 Dated 16:23:52 08-13-91 14010 <--> 14018
From: MARVIN STERN
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: CASTLE AUDITION
One of your left over force decks, no doubt.
Msg #14015 Dated 16:26:50 08-13-91 -> 14016
From: STAN LAKE
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I'll help with the index idea- time permitting. Sounds good!
Msg #14016 Dated 16:29:14 08-13-91 -> 14050
From: STAN LAKE
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Would it be possible to do this database in such a way that you could
read a book and make entries into the database showing specific tricks
that are explained, specific sleights that are explained, etc. So if
in the future a database browser wants to know how to do a certain move
he could enter it and get a list of all of the sources we have entered
containing that information.
Msg #14017 Dated 16:35:28 08-13-91
From: STAN LAKE
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: LEN REID TRICK
Let me know when the library is available and I will look for it.
Thanks for the help.
Msg #14018 Dated 16:46:27 08-13-91 14014 <--> 14022
From: STAN LAKE
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: CASTLE AUDITION
Right. I entertained myself for seven hours by successfully cutting to
the same card. I just figured out why!
Msg #14020 Dated 16:47:36 08-13-91 -> 14024
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The Okito box sounds like a wonderful idea; the Roth book, however, is
becoming a source of great frustration to locate. It's out of print
now, and it seems that when the news of its imminent demise hit the
public, there was a rush to buy up all remaining copies. So far I've
called about 20 magic & used book shops around the country, including
the Aladdin here in Fullerton, and all have given me te same answers
- lots of people looking for it, and none to be found. I would love to
have it; I find Bobo helpful but choppy as far as putting an actual
routine together. If you perchance know of someone willing to part with
their copy, I will pay any reasonable price. If not, the search
continues...
Msg #14021 Dated 16:52:25 08-13-91 -> 14286
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
Well, thanks. I didn't feel attacked, just intimidated. You're right,
I do care a great deal about magic - enough that I don't show anyone a
n effect unless I've done it in fromt of the mirror about fifty times
and I'm sure it looks almost like it should! Unfortunately, at this
point in time, that doesn't give me a heck of a lot of effects to show,
but I'm working on it. Magic's been a source of endless fascination for
me, even after a fifteen-year absence.
Msg #14022 Dated 16:56:23 08-13-91 14010 <--> 14059
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: CASTLE AUDITION
Yeah, they come in handy when you need a little extra leverage
installing those fan belts! (Just kidding) They do help the time go by.
Msg #14023 Dated 16:56:33 08-13-91 -> 14025
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: P & T
I agree wholeheartedly and I am encouraged by indications as I see them
which lead me to believe that their destructive approach is finally
beginning to turn inward.
'W.
Msg #14024 Dated 16:57:23 08-13-91 14011 <--> 14031
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I feel the same way. He does have a couple of videos out; I've been
toying with the idea of getting one just for the heck of it. But it
does seem like it would have been fairly easy to have videotaped the
lecture, considering the camera was already there.
Msg #14025 Dated 16:59:34 08-13-91 -> 14045
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
Get off of IMP and recover your ability to refer to a previous message
in the thread!!!
'W.
Msg #14027 Dated 17:02:42 08-13-91 -> 14039
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
I'd like to add two books to that from my own list, Max. They are
Juan Tamariz' first two books of the yet to be completed trilogy, THE
FIVE POINTS IN MAGIC and THE MAGIC WAY. The third in the trilogy, THE
MAGIC RAINBOW has yet to be published, as far as I know.
'W.
Msg #14028 Dated 17:10:36 08-13-91 -> 14153
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
They've developed all new material since the 8mm film that I saw.
'W.
Msg #14029 Dated 17:13:01 08-13-91 -> 14271
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Peter Cook IS a star.
'W.
Msg #14030 Dated 17:18:38 08-13-91 -> 14155
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
Oowwwwwwwwwwwww.....
Msg #14031 Dated 17:22:25 08-13-91 -> 14032
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I think it would be a great idea! I certainly used up valuable time in
the Roth lecture asking about "Spellbound Pass" etc. A warm-up lecture
for the lecture would be terrific!
Msg #14032 Dated 17:23:49 08-13-91 -> 14038
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I'll sign up.
Msg #14033 Dated 17:26:52 08-13-91 -> 14035
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRIX
I like my Sushi rolled in cornmeal and deep fried Georgia style.
Msg #14034 Dated 17:26:55 08-13-91 -> 14055
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
Are they, Magic Inc., still making the 49 cent droppers?
Msg #14035 Dated 17:26:59 08-13-91 -> 14273
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRIX
Everybody knows you ain't supposed to wear shoes when you eat weeds.
Msg #14036 Dated 17:27:02 08-13-91 14000 <--> 14100
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
Yeah, a good rule of thumb (pun) is never play cards with a dude
who has a bandaid on his hands somewhere especially if his name is,
oh, never mind. Strictly for entertainment purposes, right?
Msg #14037 Dated 17:27:07 08-13-91 14001 <--> 14280
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Double arghh!
Msg #14038 Dated 17:27:10 08-13-91 14002 <--> 14040
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Hey! No card tricks or gambling allowed.
Msg #14039 Dated 17:27:16 08-13-91 14004 <--> 14053
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
Did the minor cheat involve the small platform in the final target?
Yeah, even viewing it, I was breathing a little hard after the final
bit. And the mirror bit, wooaaahhhhh. I only got to see about two
seconds of you on there. You looked good. Will show to Gloria tonight
and see what she thinks. Thanks.
Msg #14040 Dated 17:27:23 08-13-91 14009 <--> 14048
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Hey, slow down. What is shring wrap?
Msg #14041 Dated 17:27:30 08-13-91 -> 14046
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: YO
Ooops! Tipped my audition before I read your last message! How do I
change to Private? Or can I? Guess it's too late now.
Msg #14045 Dated 17:58:25 08-13-91 14006 <--> 14052
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
I can CONCRASTINATE wif' the best of them... I know how to do it,
I just don't want to... so there!
Msg #14046 Dated 17:58:30 08-13-91 14007 <--> 14056
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: YO
I just think all the rehearsal you can get helps and sometimes you
gain talking it, thinking it, etc. I have always used the "mental
train" technique...
Msg #14047 Dated 17:58:37 08-13-91 14008 <--> 14068
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
The fish was taken early by Seabrooke and used in his act. I have
never used a Toppit. I have often used a Poachers Bag, or TOPIT,
having learned it from Pat Page and Fred Kaps. Have you seen the
Necktie Topit being sold by Norm Nielsen? It was created by Bob
Driebeek for Kaps and for many years he had the only one!
Msg #14048 Dated 17:58:46 08-13-91 14011 <--> 14049
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Does rothman not sell a video?
Msg #14049 Dated 17:58:50 08-13-91 14013 <--> 14051
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I think what I might do for my next lecture... at the Music City
Conclave... is send out a questionaire ahead of time with requests
for various information. Of course I could do the old LIE bit and
say, "here's an item over 50-percent wanted to know about..."
That's like the guy with the huge case. He says, "Each trick has
a number, there are 100 tricks in my case. Call out any number and
I will do that trick!" No matter the number called he does the
trick he wants to...
Msg #14050 Dated 17:59:01 08-13-91 14016 <--> 14058
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Maybe a DBase could be either downloaded by individuals or the
floppy sent around?
Msg #14051 Dated 17:59:06 08-13-91 14020 <--> 14054
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Have you tried Roth? Or Byron Walker? Seems to me someone (Lynn
Healy) was surprised that my edition was the Dover one... if so,
they do an awful big print order... maybe it is available through
regular book stores?
Msg #14052 Dated 17:59:14 08-13-91 14025 <--> 14063
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
Send me a couple a hundred bucks a month and I will glady stop
using IMP...
Msg #14053 Dated 17:59:19 08-13-91 14027 <--> 14066
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
I have just read all three of Juan's great tomes... and like a
dummy didn't buy his lecture notes when I saw him in Lausanne...
tho' I has been told all the stuff in the notes is actually covered
better in the books.
Add to the good ones both WORKERS I, and WORKERS II, by Mike Close.
Am working like mad on his Frog Princess effect.
Msg #14054 Dated 17:59:28 08-13-91 14031 <--> 14057
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Wait... a warm up lecture??? Didn't Roth do 7 hours? Why didn't
anyone ask him to STOP and show them a detailed handling of the
pass? (I know you all thought it was in the notes...)
.
Tell me, did you get ANYTHING you can add to your repertoire from
David???
Msg #14055 Dated 17:59:38 08-13-91 14034 <--> 14085
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
Don't know if they still make the droppers, but will be with Jay
Marshall soon, if I don't phone him first and I will find out.
Msg #14056 Dated 17:59:43 08-13-91 14041 <--> 14065
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: YO
You can send Private when online by answering the menu questions.
With RDMAGIC's later version you can do the same by using "E"
for Enter, instead of "R" for reply. You get a small menu asking
if you want Private. I will do that right now after this one.
Msg #14057 Dated 17:59:52 08-13-91 14020 <--> 14060
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
In another message I said I was going to send you a test message
that would be private, using RDMAGIC's later version. I can't right
now as I am using my laptop and it has the old version installed,
that will not send private messages. Will do next time I am on the
main machine. It has a weird monitor that does not work well when
it is HOT, and the room I am set up in gets super hot... I have to
get a fan to run alongside it as soon as some dough comes rolling in.
Msg #14058 Dated 18:20:21 08-13-91 14016 <--> 14084
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Basically, what you describe sounds possible. Also, a review of the
book could be included as well. I think that it would be wise to put
together a group that could suggest what should be in the index.
Msg #14059 Dated 18:22:21 08-13-91 14022 <--> 14121
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: CASTLE AUDITION
Sheesh! I read your message and I had to go Back on the thread to find
out that you meant a card deck! It almost seemed that you were talking
about men!
Msg #14060 Dated 18:25:46 08-13-91 14032 <--> 14061
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Tell Tabby - he might try it at the Music City Conclave.
Msg #14061 Dated 18:26:54 08-13-91 14040 <--> 14062
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Special material - shrig wrap - but don't worry, it is explained in the
lecture.
Msg #14062 Dated 18:29:36 08-13-91 14020 <--> 14064
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Wouldn't you think they'll reprint it soon?
Msg #14063 Dated 18:29:41 08-13-91 14045 <--> 14095
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
You don't "concrastinate" (sic) regularly? There is a PROcrastinators
club, but I've never gotten around to joining it.
Msg #14064 Dated 18:33:54 08-13-91 14024 <--> 14070
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
There was a video camera at the lecture? Used to project onto a
screen, maybe?
Roth as two tapes that I know about. I have heard they are very good,
can't vouch first hand.
Msg #14065 Dated 18:33:31 08-13-91 14041 <--> 14067
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: YO
Actually - you CAN change a message from public to private! First, you
go ahead and save it. Then immediately read it. When the small menu
appears at the end of the message, type E for EDIT. You press the
ENTER key to skip the TO: and possibly the FROM: and it should come
up and ask Private (y,N). Type Y for YES and press the ENTER
key.
Msg #14066 Dated 18:34:42 08-13-91 14027 <--> 14072
From: EVAN KATZ
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
I thought MAGIC RAINBOW was published -- but can't remember seeing
it. Wasn't it announced in a Busby newsletter? I'm not sure... I once
posted a mssg to Busby asking him about another book in the Editorial
Frakison series (52 lovers, part 2), and was rebuffed. Will try to
find old Thaumaturgist's to see if it is listed...
Msg #14067 Dated 18:36:37 08-13-91 14046 <--> 14083
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YO
The "mental train" technique? Sounds interesting... care to describe?
Msg #14068 Dated 18:39:05 08-13-91 14047 <--> 14529
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WONDER LUNCH...
Surprised that the fish wasn't eaten by Seabrooke! No, I haven't seen
the Necktie Topit. I usually use a wristwatch topit.
Msg #14070 Dated 18:50:27 08-13-91 14013 <--> 14071
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I'll query the lecturers who will be working Music City Conclave to
see how they feel about this. Personally, I feel that any angles that
help make an event successful for both the attendees and the pros
in lecture would be a plus. At this date, I don't think it's possible
to set up a night before for MCCM #1, but if the "students" are
warned before hand stuff they need to know, it should be a step in
the right direction. Thanks.
Msg #14071 Dated 18:50:36 08-13-91 14020 <--> 14074
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
If you didn't call Hank Lee, then give him a try. I picked up a
second edition copy from him just a few months ago.
Msg #14072 Dated 18:49:32 08-13-91 14039 <--> 14073
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
Yes. The little shelf is not noticed by a theater audience; from normal
distance it looks like he's simply balancing it on his head. The camera
was unfortunately close at the wrong moment, but it hardly makes a
difference -- even with the shelf in play it's a hairy enterprise.
There are those who think that the entire act is faked. It's not. A few
years ago, Hans Pantar's wife/partner Maureen had to be out of the show
at Bally's for a while, after she got an arrow through her upper arm...
Msg #14073 Dated 18:52:09 08-13-91 14027 <--> 14078
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
Wayne, could you tell me about _The Magic Way_. I have wittnessed
him firsthand, and he is more than a masterful magician, he is a
thorough entertainer. That title is one of the best thought out in
magic. I've recently written both he and Arturo Ascanio to see if
it is possible to have one or both (those guys, wow; those guys plus
the 1992 line up of lecturers, double wow) of them come to Nashville
in 1993 or 1994. His work has had influence on some of the most
influencial magicians in this country. I am currently unread but will
read Tamariz complete over the winter. It is a study I've looked
forward to. I'll order all his books at the same time and start,
hopefully, at the beginning. To whet my appetite, tell me please
about _The Magic Way_.
Msg #14074 Dated 18:52:22 08-13-91 14031 <--> 14080
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
OK, the idea would be to get the lecturers to let me know what moves
they think that anyone attending their lecture would need to know as
a prereq. Compile a master list, hopefully locating the most common
source for the sleight and providing this information to the body.
At first I was put off by the night before class idea because of the
logistics, but I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea. I'm just won-
dering if it wouldn't be better to do it a month before hand. There
is only so much the human brain (well, mine anyway) as well as the
muscle memory and the night before wouldn't give you much time. But
ya'll are right, and the lecturers have been aware of the problem.
I'm going to try to do something about it from my end of things
anyway. I'll get on it as soon as I get back from Nashville next
week. This is something I really want help with. More than half of
the lecturers for the MCCM are on or have access to MAGIC!. I was
going to stay off line with stuff as I didn't want to sound like a
commerial, but this is for the southeast guys and the talk is it is
going to sell out early. My goal is to produce the premier teaching
conclave in the southeast and I will take all the help I can get.
Plus, get some more SE participation here as MAGIC! will be
represented in Nashville.
Msg #14075 Dated 18:52:40 08-13-91
From: TABBY CRABB
To: RICK RUHL
Re: VISIT
Ee;14032
Say, what happened to you. I thought you were coming by about now.
Msg #14076 Dated 18:52:46 08-13-91 -> 14184
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: CLASSIC RENDITIONS
Ee;14032
Really think your new _Bill Switch_ video is great. Really well done,
good music, great audio (sound guy knew what he was doing for sure),
great looking table (har! - nice surprise, cool). Say, I really like
your having John Cornelius doing a segment, plus the little envelopes
you put in. Nice touch. I think 35 is the right price for a magic
video too. Congrats.....
Msg #14077 Dated 18:53:24 08-13-91 -> 14132
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: TURTLES
Say, I really like that turtle idea. Did you make that up?
Msg #14078 Dated 18:54:09 08-13-91 14073 <--> 14079
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
Although it does contain some excellent tricks and routines, the main
reason to buy "The Magic Way" is for his lengthy essay on the Theory of
False Solutions, to which the other material is all related. As I
mentioned during another discussion here some time back, I think Juan
overstates the case on this theory; nevertheless his thinking is
lovely.
Msg #14079 Dated 18:56:03 08-13-91 14066 <--> 14093
From: MAX MAVEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
"Magic Rainbow" is not yet in print. At one point Jeff Busby had an
exclusive distribution arrangement with Editorial Frakson, but the
situation has changed. Several dealers have the three Tamariz books in
stock, along with the others from that source; try Hank Lee or Magic,
Inc.
Msg #14080 Dated 18:57:23 08-13-91 14070 <--> 14087
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
My policy in lecturing for general audiences (e.g., at conventions) is
to cover all necessary techniques in the lecture.
By the way, at some point we must discuss policies regarding taping at
your Conclave...
Msg #14083 Dated 19:26:19 08-13-91 14046 <--> 14125
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YO
Pete, you're right. The more comfortable you get with the whole idea
the more relaxed you can and will be in any potentially stressful
situation. Part of the training at the OTC for our atheletes is
in the use of visualization and spending time every day in its'
practice. And the more like minded people you have helping you
with something, the better your chances for a successful completion.
Napoleon Hill calls it _The Master Mind_. Well, close anyway.
Msg #14084 Dated 19:26:27 08-13-91 14050 <--> 14142
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RESEARCH
This is a good idea. We should try to catalog and reference every
book we can collectively get our hands on. So it will take years or
decades. What have we got but a little time. Sounds like a way to
make some of it count. Be like Jim and Tammy and put a little brass
plaque around for everybody who contributes - not really.
Msg #14085 Dated 19:26:34 08-13-91 14055 <--> 14525
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
That's great. Sounds like a neat item to have and at the right
moment a total mind blower. What happened to Tommy Wonder? Did he
go home?
Msg #14087 Dated 19:26:46 08-13-91 14061 <--> 14088
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I looked all through them and found no mention of shring. Do you
possible mean shrimp?
Msg #14088 Dated 19:27:10 08-13-91 14080 <--> 14091
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Re; taping at MCCM. I've got to be honest with you Max. I really don't
like to see video cameras atthese events. I'm not even sure about
closed circuit tv, though I can see the necessity of those large
screens if the crowd is big. If you'd like to tape yourself, I'd say it
would be fine (or any lecturer taping himself) though I'd just rather
not see video cameras in the room at all.
Msg #14089 Dated 20:02:16 08-13-91 -> 14090
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PCX TO IFF
I'll work on that Jade Icon. Maybe this will entice more people to use
Amgias....
Msg #14090 Dated 20:03:11 08-13-91 -> 14096
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PCX TO IFF
Actually, until March 2nd, if people call you at a 415 number, they'll
get your line. After that, they'll get a message saying that the are
code changed. That's six whole months to wear out your new credit
cards. Wear them out to dinner, and a show, and....
Msg #14091 Dated 20:24:56 08-13-91 14087 <--> 14092
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
No, no, not SHRING - we all know what that is - this is SHRIG. Totally
different SHTUFF.
Msg #14092 Dated 20:26:24 08-13-91 14088 <--> 14102
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
What about MAGIC!'s digitizers?
Msg #14093 Dated 20:27:04 08-13-91 -> 14112
From: T A WATERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
It is a sort of two-surface tan/brown cloth binding; very attractive.
Your order arrived this morning -- the tape went out this afternoon;
hope you like it.
Msg #14095 Dated 20:30:23 08-13-91 -> 14097
From: T A WATERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: P & T
As I remarked to Max only this afternoon, it will be interesting to see
where P&T are a year from now.
Msg #14096 Dated 20:32:15 08-13-91 14089 <--> 14602
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: PCX TO IFF
Great! Let me know when you have it done - a Jade Icon would be worth
firing up the ol' Amiga for!
Msg #14097 Dated 20:31:35 08-13-91 -> 14098
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
You wanna read something really spooky, take a look at the Chavez dove
book; there's a chapter in it on condition the audience which quite
seriously makes the case that you MUST wear tails -- no exceptions --
or else the audience won't understand that you're a magician...!
Msg #14098 Dated 20:33:42 08-13-91 -> 14113
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: P & T
Well -- comparisons, as they say, are invidious, so I am not making one
here -- but the fact that Andrew Dice Clay has a career proves there
are no rules in show business as to what works.
Msg #14099 Dated 20:36:50 08-13-91 -> 14115
From: T A WATERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PROFESSOR EL-TAB
Reverse the name -- the hyphen takes the place of one T.
Msg #14100 Dated 20:38:25 08-13-91 -> 14101
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
In my TRIONIC routine (plug) I used as one element a variant of the De
Sieve locator, from Greater Magic: Here you took a stylus around the
border of a court card box to create a raised ridge on the back.
Msg #14101 Dated 20:40:18 08-13-91 14003 <--> 14908
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ANOTHER FROM KAPS
Some brands of eye shadow are excellent; I used a silvery one for a
long time.
Msg #14102 Dated 20:42:02 08-13-91 -> 14103
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Agreed; the Bobo book should come first. When I was in the service,
befo I saw de light and became a mentalist, I did a helluva lot of
stuff out of Bobo -- and, as with many good books, a lot of it I hhave
never seen anyone else do.
Msg #14103 Dated 20:44:03 08-13-91 -> 14105
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Call it "REMEDIALEGERDEMAIN"...!
Msg #14104 Dated 20:44:55 08-13-91 -> 14143
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Also related to my feelings on video are my general feelings on
how an event should be run. My job and responsibility is to bring
professional lecturers and lecture goers together for mutual
benefit. Once you mount the platform (and shortly before) it is
your room to manage. Even simple things like smoking, no smoking;
video, no video. No dealers outside Charlie (H&R Books) to
conflict but I want to also present this side of things (great
older books) too. I am neither MC nor host, though I might like
to say a few words to open each days events. I hope each lecturer
brings quality printed and other material to offer those in
attendence if that is their desire. My reasons for choosing to
produce this event are complex, however, I see a need and I have
a desire to fill it. Nashville for obvious and not so obvious
reasons, but it's as close to home as anywhere. I'm really glad
you choose to get involved and know it will be a great event with
laid back, the order of the weekend.
Msg #14105 Dated 20:45:36 08-13-91 14020 <--> 14107
From: T A WATERS
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The Roth book, brilliant as it is, is not going to help you much with
routines; it has some lenghty effect sequences, but so does Bobo. You
might look at the Ganson Routined Manip series, depending on the sort
of thing you're looking for.
Msg #14107 Dated 20:57:55 08-13-91 14051 <--> 14108
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Pete -- I think Cindy has the Bobo book -- which is the one published
by Dover -- and is trying to get the Roth book.
Msg #14108 Dated 21:18:33 08-13-91 14103 <--> 14110
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Nah, they'll never go for it (as someone has suggested) - but we could
call it "Advanced Topics: Counts, Cuts, Moves and Subtlety." Make 'em
sign a statement at the door that they will never reveal what they are
about to see.
Msg #14110 Dated 21:28:59 08-13-91 14091 <--> 14111
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
All these new vocabulary words are getting me confused.
Msg #14111 Dated 21:29:03 08-13-91 14092 <--> 14116
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I've supported your digitization of lectures and shows because of
the impact of the globalization of the digitization. I've also been
part of the process explaining the use of to among others, Johnny Ace
Palmer as well as Bob Sheets, Dave Williamson and Danny Sylvester. I
have felt in this situation that since the performers both understood
the process and granted their permission it has been fine. I'm proud
to have been part of the first digitized pictures of magicians to go
across the big pond to Magic-NL and here on MAGIC!. Making history
isn't the point of most taping and I feel that it is the performer
or lecturer's perogative to be taped or not.
.
.
Msg #14112 Dated 21:29:16 08-13-91 14093 <--> 14160
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
I wish most of my ea west mail moved that well. I know the tape is
good because my neighbor, Rudy, told me so. Rudy is the guy I told
you about who has used his desire to become a magician to help him
through two really bad bouts with MS. Rudy has close to 100 magic
videos and has only recently discovered books (coming over here
probably helped that). My video library is small, with me only
recently discovering video as a way to relax.
Msg #14113 Dated 21:29:25 08-13-91 14095 <--> 14114
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: P & T
They could still turn it around, but they will have to make a decisio
n to either come closer to magic's flame or to eschew it altogether.
This is my opinion of course, but they could do a heck of a magic
show if they wanted to. I thought their earlier work was closer to
the flame and am bored with the magician bashing thing. Surprise
everybody and do a killer magic show. Why not?
Msg #14114 Dated 21:29:33 08-13-91 14097 <--> 14166
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: P & T
I've a great old tails jacket that was my uncle Professor DeCarlo's
in the thirties when he was hanging out in Cuba. If I could loose
about 100 lbs and saw six inches off my arms I'd love to wear it,
especially now since it adorned our scarecrow in the garden for the
past three years. Top hat too, with a cracked crown.
Msg #14115 Dated 21:29:41 08-13-91 14099 <--> 14481
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: PROFESSOR EL-TAB
When I was in high school one of my friends, Eugene Dunman, started
spelling and saying all of our names backwards, Thus his became
Enegue Namud and mine Ybbat Bbarc. The thriller was Larry Underwood;
Yarrl Doowrednu. I can't believe I missed the El-Tab/Battle connectio
n. I was so entranced with the El-Tab part that I am now El-Tab II.
Ybbat (pron E-bat since we were all taking Spanish at the time)
Msg #14116 Dated 21:29:49 08-13-91 14102 <--> 14118
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The Bobo book was one of my first "major" acquisitions and I am still
delighted by it.
Msg #14118 Dated 21:51:51 08-13-91 14051 <--> 14119
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Roth said in his lecture that they were unable to find financing for
another edition. I don't know about the Dover edition, maybe that was
the second edition. It's not a hardcover? He didn't seem to think
they'd do a paprback of it.
Msg #14119 Dated 21:53:26 08-13-91 14054 <--> 14120
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Sure - a Shell Coins Across and a neat little three ball routine, based
on Vernon's and, I think, Marlo's. Also, Fast & Loose and some
information on what books had explanations of the moves he didn't
really show us in lecture or have in the notes. (I know, there
shouldn't be so much research & effort involved. The rest, like the
Slydini flurry, was obviously just to be entertainment, cause the notes
just barely cover them (In the notes, the Slydini flurry starts with,
"Place the coin into Spellbound position; do Bertram's double feint
vanish, etc")
Msg #14120 Dated 21:58:50 08-13-91 14057 <--> 14122
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
No prob!
Msg #14121 Dated 21:59:13 08-13-91 14059 <--> 14137
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: CASTLE AUDITION
Well, you know...
Msg #14122 Dated 21:59:54 08-13-91 14060 <--> 14123
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Wait - tell Tabby what? I've left so many messages, I can't remember
what I'm saying!
Msg #14123 Dated 22:00:38 08-13-91 14062 <--> 14124
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Boy, I sure hope so, but Roth didn't think so.
Msg #14124 Dated 22:01:15 08-13-91 14064 <--> 14127
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
There was a video-capable camera (I know, my terminology stinks) for a
wide screen TV.
Msg #14127 Dated 22:06:06 08-13-91 14110 <--> 14128
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
We'll work on an on-line glossary. So far as I know, to this point the
only read new word is "magicalumpen." The others are probably
pseudoneologisms.
Msg #14128 Dated 22:03:32 08-13-91 14071 <--> 14129
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Called him Monday AM - actually, left an order PLEADING for a copy
Sunday PM, and got a call back Monday AM saying no dice. He directed me
to a Magical Arts Studio, who direcetd me to someone else, who put me
on a mailing list. I even tried Abbotts and all the shops with phone
numbers advertising in Genii and old Magic Manuscripts! (Most of them
are no longer gracing this world with their presence). I refuse to give
up!
Msg #14129 Dated 22:09:52 08-13-91 14122 <--> 14130
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I remember - never mind.
Msg #14130 Dated 22:07:32 08-13-91 14111 <--> 14131
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I agree that it is the performer's or lecturer's perogative to be taped
or not. I just wish that more of them would understand and embrace the
technology. It is something that most simply haven't thought thru and
in another couple of years, frankly, they won't know if it is being
done or not (assuming, of course, that an idividual was unethical
enough to do it without permission). JVC already markets a VCR whose
camera would fit rather nicely in your hat. Soon it will fit right
into the side of a pair of eyeglasses. And we are talking amatuer gear
here, not CIA stuff.
Msg #14131 Dated 22:11:21 08-13-91 14116 <--> 14133
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Query: I've been told that there are considerable differences between
the different editions of Bobo. Is this true?
Msg #14132 Dated 22:10:52 08-13-91 14077 <--> 14147
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TURTLES
As far as I know. It just kinda seemed logical, y'know?
Msg #14133 Dated 22:12:31 08-13-91 14074 <--> 14134
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
It really sounds like a great idea! Why only the Southeast?
Msg #14134 Dated 22:12:58 08-13-91 14122 <--> 14136
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
You were supposed to tell Tabby that you would sign up for an
extra-charge beginner's workshop at the Music City Conclave. You
somehow replied to me instead of appending to him, or something like
that.
Msg #14136 Dated 22:15:43 08-13-91 14105 <--> 14139
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
On my next shopping trip! Thanks for the advice!
Msg #14137 Dated 22:16:24 08-13-91 14121 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: CASTLE AUDITION
I probably don't -- but you probably do!
Msg #14139 Dated 22:20:49 08-13-91 14080 <--> 14140
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Your policy is the way it should be done, Maybe you should lecture
lecturers...
Msg #14140 Dated 22:18:27 08-13-91 14048 <--> 14141
From: STAN LAKE
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I hear he has videos out but I remember someone asking him if this was
in his video and he said it was in a video which combined him and other
performers as well. He couldn't remember the name of it. If I come
across one of his videos that cover these things I'll purchase one.
I don't know why he didn't have any of his tapes or books available for
purchase as there were plenty of willing buyers.
Msg #14141 Dated 22:22:17 08-13-91 14107 <--> 14144
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Actually, mine's the hardcover published by Magic, Inc.
Msg #14142 Dated 22:26:23 08-13-91 14058 <--> 14145
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Count me in! The first thing we have to agree on is a common Data
Base familiar (available) to all. I for one vote for dBase (.dbf) file
format. Several programs use it including Fox Base and others. The
files
can be uploaded and retrieved by (to be chosen later) and possibly
converted to the final format if necessary. I've been wanting to do
this
for some time but one person alone with limited resources wouldn't get
very
far. I've been toying with the idea of a laptop hooked to a hand
scanner to
quickly catalog Table of Contents listings, but haven't been able to
get my
hands on a good OCR program(still trying!) Already tried one hand
scanner
with little success with OCR, too hard to get perfect alignment. Also,
most
hand scanners require driver cards limiting portable use.
.
Keep us posted on this one!
.
David (the other one)
Msg #14143 Dated 22:35:20 08-13-91 14104 <--> 14151
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
I am delighted to hear your views on taping, as they conform with my
own. My policy -- which has met with varied reactions -- is that I
allow no taping whatsoever when I lecture. This includes audiotping.
The attendee simply hasn't paid for the right to own my performance.
Too, I think that when a person knows they're catching it all on tape
they tend to pay less attention to the lecture as it happens live. As
for the fact that current mini-recorders are small enough to conceal
(as per David Lichtman's comments), as lecturer I reserve the right to
simply end the lecture should I find anyone attempting to secretly
record it.
The panel discussion is another matter. As there are other people
involved, I do not think it fair for me to impose my restrictions on
such a group function. I would not agree to videotaping, but would not
object to audiotaping.
Msg #14144 Dated 22:40:09 08-13-91 14139 <--> 14148
From: MAX MAVEN
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Leaving aside the question of quality regarding my own lecture work, I
would observe that the majority of lecturers have no business doing it.
Creating and then presenting a lecture takes both skill and effort; it
should be approached with the same care as a performance. (Then again,
we know how many performers don't bother to invest much in that,
either.)
Msg #14145 Dated 22:44:26 08-13-91 14058 <--> 14149
From: STAN LAKE
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
OK, so let's go to the next step. Get a group- count me in if I can be
of help.
Msg #14147 Dated 22:59:50 08-13-91 14132 <--> 14195
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TURTLES
I'll probably start really doing something about the turtles when I
figure out how to make an overly affectionate young springer spaniel
disappear & reappear at will. Tough to work with her sitting on my lap!
Msg #14148 Dated 23:01:40 08-13-91 14134 <--> 14191
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I see, hmmm...
Msg #14149 Dated 23:11:06 08-13-91 14142 <--> 14150
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I'd like to get Randy Lund involved in the discussion when he returns
from his vacation. Randy authored MAGIC2DB and is working on MAGIC3DB.
I think that there is a strong possibility that his program, which is
specific to magic and which includes other things - such a an effect
and performance database - would be the ideal vehicle.
Otherwise, we could debate the relative merits of the standard database
packages.
Even using a tabletop scanner (HP ScanJet) I have been disappointed
with the OCR programs that I've tried.
My suggestion would be that once Randy returns, perhaps you, Randy and
I could form the nucleus of a committee (along with any others who wish
to join) and could work out a plan to be presented to the MAGIC!
members at large for their review.
Msg #14150 Dated 23:15:25 08-13-91 14145 <--> 14154
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: RESEARCH
OK, Stan - You should have already seen my message to David VanVranken,
so let's ammend the committee to include you.
Msg #14151 Dated 23:16:31 08-13-91 14143 <--> 14170
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
It must be deja vu week here on MAGIC! - Penn & Teller and videotape.
I do not wish to attempt to recap the previous incarnation of this
topic (and for everyone reading this, there is a very good article that
does include a partial recap in the files - Check area #2. The article
is by Ron Bieber).
I will tell you though that if I were irresponsible enough to make a
clandestine recording, I really doubt that even you would be aware of
it. I will also state that I would _never_ do such a thing, knowing
your wishes - not even to "prove a point" or as some sort of twisted
attempt at humor.
Msg #14153 Dated 23:31:55 08-13-91 14028 <--> 14171
From: JERRY BURTON
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
I thought that they had, see if you can get a tape to Pete. They
would be ideal for SLC.
.
By the way I checked with my Sufi tonight and he doesn't know
anyone in Van Nuys to teach Kung Fu. He also says kds don't do well
with Tai Chi. I do recommend a Chinese school as opposed to Japanese.
I've taken both and prefer the Chinese methods.
Msg #14154 Dated 23:32:02 08-13-91 -> 14158
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I'm not sure I'm qualified to make out such a form. I could certainly
help with the programming of the database and retrieval programs
though.
Msg #14155 Dated 23:32:06 08-13-91 -> 14205
From: JERRY BURTON
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
I don't want to be a Holey man, maybe just some followers to buy me
Rolls Royces, and maybe a few virgins for back rubs and jacuzzi
parties. Nuthin' heavy, just a small religion, how does Burtonites
sound ?
Msg #14157 Dated 23:32:21 08-13-91 -> 14230
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YO
The attendees are limited to the membership commitee which is about
12 guys. They ask how long you have been in magic, what books you
have and then say go. You should be prepared to do about 5-15 minutes
.
If they stop you after the first or second trick, they've seen
enough, you're in. If you do your whole act, then they either think
you're terrific and want to see everything, OR they hope you are
going to get to something worthy of membership.
.
After its over it seems easy, but before its nerve racking. It took
me 5 months (after I had decided to go for it) to finally get myself
together enough to try.
Msg #14158 Dated 23:32:32 08-13-91 14084 <--> 14162
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RESEARCH
If someone could come up with a format for each database entry I
could write program that each member could have on their own machine
and then upload their data to MAGIC! where David could merge it into
one large database, so everyone could access it.
.
This would be a separate section, with on-line queries to get info.
I would suggest just catloging effects by author, type (coins, cards,
mentalism, etc. ) with a brief synopsis of the effect. You could
retrieve info by category etc. It would also be useful to have cross-
references for tracing the variations of an effect.
.
It would also be required that each member tell David what books or
source material they are working on so as not to duplicate the effort
If everyone did an entry a day in a year we could have 219,000 entrys
assuming 600 members working on the project.
.
Jeez David you better get another disk or two - what did I start ?
Msg #14160 Dated 23:24:23 08-13-91 14073 <--> 14164
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
You really should start with THE FIVE POINTS IN MAGIC in which he
thoroughly goes through his magical approach and the
role/power/subtleties of the eyes, hands, voice, body and feet. His
writing style is as charming as he is in person. The illustrative
effects are perfect...including his performance of Larry Jennings'
Coins Through Table. Juan also includes a marvelous Bibliography on
magic presentation. It gives an insightful glimpse into the works and
magicians who have influenced him the most...and why.
In THE MAGIC WAY, he builds on this performance base and shows in
minute detail how he approaches many effects and how he leaves the
audience with only one possible solution...."It's magic, right?"
'W.
Msg #14162 Dated 23:40:40 08-13-91 14158 <--> 14200
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RESEARCH
BEFORE you program it, Jerry, let's wait for Randy to return - he has
already done considerable work and I think he will want to be a part of
this. 219,000 entrys??? Aaarrrggghhh!!! (tm - Biro)!
Msg #14164 Dated 23:37:03 08-13-91 14078 <--> 14174
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
He may overstate it in terms of the capability of most readers to
achieve the same extraordinary results....but he certainly does not
overstate the results HE obtains! With thought, work, work and more
work...and talent...we can all, hopefully, get closer to those results.
His approach to magic is one which I enjoy on every level.
He holds back nothing and shares the real stuff in his books. (I'm not
talking about tricks here...those who just want more tricks should look
elsewhere...those who want to find out how to transform tricks into
magic should look no further.)
'W.
Msg #14165 Dated 23:45:50 08-13-91 -> 15283
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: SUBSCRIPTION REMINDER
****************************
* IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT *
****************************
Effective on Sunday, September 1st, MAGIC! will become a subscriber
system. The subscription fee will be $30 per year. Those who have
contributed in the past, the Charter Supporters, will have automatic
six month subscriptions in recognition of their generosity.
As a subscription incentive, we are offering three different BONUS
PACKAGES which can save you up to $24!
These subscriber bonus packages include the new PASSPORT TO
MAGIC!(tm), IMP!(tm) or BOTH!
The new PASSPORT TO MAGIC! is a 40-page guide to getting the most
from MAGIC! It includes specific directions on the various ways
to read and "capture" mail, how to use MAGIC!'s powerful search
commands to find specific messages, how to download MAGIC! files,
how to customize MAGIC! to your personal preferences, lots of
hints, tips, techniques and more. If you choose a subscription
bonus that includes the PASSPORT, your PASSPORT will be personally
autographed to you!
IMP! 1.0, the Interactive MAGIC! Program, is a remarkable program
that allows IBM and MS-DOS users to dramatically reduce their
on-line phone charges. Created by Jerry Burton, and donated to
MAGIC!, IMP!, in conjunction with your communications package,
allows you to quickly capture MAGIC! messages, to end your
on-line session and to read the messages while you are off the
phone. Using IMP! you can create new messages and reply to
existing messages and then connect back to MAGIC! and send your
messages in a matter of a few moments. In addition, IMP! allows
you quick access to anything in the MAGIC! message files that
you have on your system. It even includes a terrific magic
effect! IMP! 1.0 comes with full documentation.
BONUS PACKAGE #1: A one-year subscription to MAGIC! (a $30 value)
AND a personally autographed copy of the new 40-page PASSPORT TO
MAGIC! (a $14 value) together (total $44 value) for $35!
A 26% saving!
BONUS PACKAGE #2: A one year subscription to MAGIC! (a $30 value)
AND a copy of IMP!(tm) 1.0 with documentation (a $30 value) together
(worth $60) for $45! A 33% saving!
BONUS PACKAGE #3: A one-year subscription to MAGIC! ($30 value)
PLUS a personally autographed copy of the new 40-page PASSPORT TO
MAGIC! (a $14 value) PLUS a copy of IMP! 1.0 (worth $30), $74 worth
of MAGIC!, IMP! and the autographed PASSPORT for $50! A 48% saving!
And postage is included within the U.S., Canada, and Mexico.
(Outside North America please add $ 4 for air mail).
Don't miss a day of MAGIC! Be sure your subscription is in by
August 31st! For your convenience, an order form is attached.
You can print it off and send it with your subscription, or you
can provide the same information on plain paper.
P.S. - Your MAGIC! subscription is protected by a money back
guarantee. If, for any reason, you cancel your subscription
during the year, you will receive a prompt pro-rated refund.
MAGIC!(tm) SUBSCRIPTION FORM
TO: David Lichtman
MAGIC!
P. O. Box 900
Arleta, Ca. 91334
FROM: _________________________ PHONE NUMBER: _________________
ADDR: _________________________ FAX: _________________
CITY: _________________________ BIRTHDAY: _________________
(optional)
STATE: _____________ ZIP: ______
COUNTRY: ______________________
___ YES! Please include me as a member of MAGIC!
___ One-year subscription only $ 30
___ Package #1 - One-year subscription PLUS
a personally autographed PASSPORT TO MAGIC!
A $ 9 saving! $ 35
___ Package #2 - Oe-year subscription PLUS
IMP! 1.0 with documentation. A $ 15 saving! $ 45
___ Package #3 - One-year subscription PLUS
a personally autographed PASSPORT TO MAGIC!
PLUS IMP! 1.0 with documentation. A $ 24 saving! $ 50
IMP! is currently available only for IBM and
MS-DOS systems. If you are including IMP!,
please select:
___ 5-1/4" 360K diskette OR ___ 3-1/2" 720K diskette
___ Outside of North America, please add postage to
package orders. $ 4
TOTAL AMOUNT ENCLOSED $ _____
Enclose a check or money order payable in U.S. currency, and made
out to DAVID LICHTMAN for the total amount. Receipt of your
subscription will be acknowledged by a personal message on MAGIC!
Thank you!
Msg #14166 Dated 23:48:00 08-13-91 14052 <--> 14167
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
Pete...even if I had an extra couple hundred a month to send you...no
way! I get too much enjoyment seeing you flounder around, responding
blindly to messages, being occasionally clueless as to what the hay the
rest of us are talking about!
I'm occasionally clueless myself and I don't have IMP as an excuse!
'W.
Msg #14167 Dated 23:53:10 08-13-91 14095 <--> 14168
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: P & T
I'll settle for reading about it. I don't think I'm going to want to
see it.
'W.
Msg #14168 Dated 23:54:15 08-13-91 14098 <--> 14169
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: P & T
Perhaps, but that doesn't mean I have to consider Clay an artist...or
pay money to see him "perform."
'W.
Msg #14169 Dated 23:55:29 08-13-91 14113 <--> 14208
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: P & T
You're an optimist, Tab. I like that and I hope you're right.
'W.
Msg #14170 Dated 0:00:46 08-14-91 14143 <--> 14175
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
That's a very sensible policy, Max.
I've often been amazed at how easily some lecturers agree to have their
lecture videotaped.
'W.
Msg #14171 Dated 0:02:51 08-14-91 14153 <--> 14203
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Thanks for the info, Jerry.
I would get a tape to Pete, but he can't retrace a thread and doesn't
know what the hell we're talking about here. Seems to be due to some
confounded IMP or something...I dunno.
'W.
Msg #14174 Dated 0:23:51 08-14-91 14164 <--> 14206
From: MAX MAVEN
T WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
My reference to overstatement was brief, as I'd covered this recently
in other messages. What I mean is hat Juan presents this theory as
_the_ solution to creating good magic. It is not. It is, by all means,
an excellent approach -- I have been actively exploring it for many
years in my own invetions -- but it is one of several, and to suggest
that it should be applied to the exclusion of other paths is, to me,
overstaement.
Msg #14175 Dated 0:26:59 08-14-91 14151 <--> 14178
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
The ifference is that the discussion of Penn & Teller concerns
opinions, whereas my comments on videotaping are _policy_.
I'm quite open to the viability of someone videotaping my lecture --
provided they're willing to pay me commensurate with my estalished
television fees.
Msg #14176 Dated 0:29:06 08-14-91 -> 14236
From: MAX MAVEN
To: ALL
Re: NEWS
The public speaks. A clipping fom the "Globe and Mail," a Canadian
newspaper, dated 8/3/91:
"CHILDREN ATTACK BUSKER
"STELLARTON, NOVA SCOTIA - Children threw rocks and pop cans at a
street performer Thursday before organizers managed to restore calm to
the pint-sized crowd. Nick Nickolas, a visiting busker from Australia,
was attacked during the finale of his act as children swarmed around
him, officials said. Mr. Nickolas was kicke by one child after he had
asked everyone to sit down, and several children made off with his
playing cards when he dropped a deck used in a magic trick. Town
recreation official Kim Walsh called the incident `unfortunate.'"
Msg #14178 Dated 1:07:36 08-14-91 14175 <--> 14183
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
I did not intend the deja vu comment as critical; it was more commiserative
in that some of us, you included, have seen this particular discussion
before.
It so happens that in most settings my policy happens to be very
similar to your own. I too have an established fee structure and it
also has provision for the right to videotape -- at a significantly
higher rate.
But I still think that there are aspects of this that should be
explored in general. Television fees, for example, should not
necessarily apply to individuals who are only seeking to use the medium
as a method of notetaking. Granted, this is a complex issue since it
is quite possible for tape to be "shared" with friends, fellow club
members, etc.
Msg #14180 Dated 1:48:34 08-14-91
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC! MESSAGES # 45
The forty-fifth set of MAGIC! messages - #12000 (August 3, 1991) to
#12499 (August 6, 1991) - has been transferred to a downloadable
file. The file is named MAGIC-45.TXT. This means that you can now
go to the file area, download this file, and read the forty-fifth
volume of messages off-line. For those who know how to use the
PKUNZIP system for uncompressing files, there is a compressed
version of this same file. It is called MAGIC-45.ZIP and is less
than 1/2 the size of the full-text version.
Not only will transferring these messages to a file make it easier
for you to obtain a complete set of them, but it will make the
search for new messages easier and faster.
Msg #14181 Dated 1:49:12 08-14-91
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC! MESSAGES # 46
The forty-sixth set of MAGIC! messages - #12500 (August 6, 1991) to
#12999 (August 8, 1991) - has been transferred to a downloadable
file. The file is named MAGIC-46.TXT. This means that you can now
go to the file area, download this file, and read the forty-sixth
volume of messages off-line. For those who know how to use the
PKUNZIP system for uncompressing files, there is a compressed
version of this same file. It is called MAGIC-46.ZIP and is less
than 1/2 the size of the full-text version.
Not only will transferring these messages to a file make it easier
for you to obtain a complete set of them, but it will make the
search for new messages easier and faster.
Msg #14183 Dated 3:20:09 08-14-91 14178 <--> 14188
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
And that's precisely the point. Videotapes somehow never end up as
personal notes. A friend makes a copy for a friend who didn't attend as
a special favor "just for you" -- but that friend has another friend
who is interested, and so on. I even know of cases where videotapes
that were done as explicit one-of-a-kind-I'll-never-even-show-it-to-
anyone-else recordings have ended up duplicated and sold on a published
and distributed price-list.
Msg #14184 Dated 5:51:48 08-14-91 14076 <--> 14242
From: MICHAEL AMMAR
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CLASSIC RENDITIONS
Thank ya', thank ya', thank ya! No word yet on the exact date for the
Carson show this month - sure hope they wait until the last week....
Msg #14187 Dated 7:27:02 08-14-91 -> 14190
From: STAN LAKE
To: ALL
Re: GIANT SILVER HALF DOLLAR
At the Roth lecture, David produced at giant Kennedy half as the climax
to one of his coin routines. It landed on the table with a "WHAM!" as
it is made of one pound of solid silver and is about the size of a
saucer. Beautifully made but it cost him $700! Foothill coins in Van
Nuys, CA (818) 347-000 sells NOT giant Kennedy Halves but giant walking
liberty halves, one of the most beautiful coins ever minted in the U.S.
Their price for these gorgeous one pound coins- only $99.00! If you
would like to produce a giant half as a conclusion to a routine but you
use Kennedy or Franklin halves it would be cheaper to switch to walking
liberty halves which range around $12.00 on up. I have an ad in front
of me from them for 50 walking liberty halves for $189.50 in good or
better condition. I asked about giant Kennedy halves and they were
unaware of anyone minting those.
Msg #14188 Dated 7:36:59 08-14-91 14183 <--> 14189
From: STAN LAKE
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Max regarding videotaping policy. I see your point that if you let
someone tape your lecture that could lead to an indiscriminate copying
of your material thereby cheating you out of what you rightfully could
have earned in lecture fees from those dubbing the tape.
On the other hand, when I go to a lecture I want to try to learn
everything the lecturer is trying to put across. With my lousy note
taking capabilities and an even worse memory I frequently find that I
only get a fraction of what is being offered and of that fraction that
I "get" (retain, remember or make note of) most of THAT is incomplete.
So many little nuances go into any routine that it is impossible to
make note of them all. I know we should not try to mindlessly copy
how another performer performs and we should make effects and routines
uniquely our own but that can best be done when we know how to do it
right in the first place.
David Roth's rendition of faFast And Loose was wonderful entertainment
but it was so great because of the way he presented it. Just the bare
bones of it makes it a puzzle. Without some of those lines and the
underlying psychology it is a trick which if you are not careful can be
very annoying to the spectator. His notes are basically that- the bare
bones of the mechanics of the effect. I wish I could remember how and
what and when he said what and how many times etc. that made it seem so
great when we all saw it the first time.
If you give a lecture do you want your students to learn everything
you teach them or not? Is it fair that one person with a near
photographic memory retains nearly all of your lecture and some like
myself just bits and pieces? It seems to me that if you thought
something was important enough to include in your lecture you would
also think it is important enough for them to learn.
So how about this as a compromise- Would it be possible to sell a tape
of your lecture AT your lecture that has been produced on that kind of
tape that can't be copied? I know many videos nowadays have that.
That way you wouldn't get people illegally copying your lectures to
sell to others and the sale of the tapes could be an extra avenue of
profit for you. Most important to me is that people could learn to do
the magic the way it was taught instead of their interpretation of a
fuzzy recollection.
Msg #14189 Dated 7:59:07 08-14-91 14183 <--> 14199
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Generally, the process of replicating personal tapes cannot extend for
too many generations since the image degrades during copying. Some
high end equipment currently available does allow for better copying
and once true digital video becomes available, well...
But, of course, some people copy computer software too, and yet almost
all software vendors have decided to drop their attempts at "copy
protection," viewing the inconvenience to their real customers as less
desirable than permitting some copies to exist. Instead, they have
been rather successful at making people feel very guilty about copying
and, to a great extent, it seems to be working.
In all likelyhood, restricting video notetaking actually INCREASES the
value of any existing pirate copy. Have you considered the possibility
that a flood of personal video notetaking would rapidly destroy the
market for such trading? "Hey, you want a copy of my Max Maven tape?"
"No thanks, I've already seen Schlemel's -- now I want to see Max
LIVE."
Msg #14190 Dated 8:10:03 08-14-91 14187 <--> 14240
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: GIANT SILVER HALF DOLLAR
A pound of solid silver would be very nice! I don't know about halves,
but giant metal pennies, nickles and quarters are available at most
magic shops. They deliver approximately the same "WHAM" for
considerably less money.
Msg #14191 Dated 8:17:24 08-14-91 14128 <--> 14192
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Byron Walker had some copies of the first edition a while back. Since
you're running down blind alleys, you might try him. (415)352-1854
after 6pm. Byron is a great used,rare and occasionally new book
dealer.
Msg #14192 Dated 8:17:30 08-14-91 14128 <--> 14193
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Another thought, try Andy Greget in Berwyn, PA (215) 296-2664 all
day. Another good used bookman.
Msg #14193 Dated 8:17:35 08-14-91 14130 <--> 14194
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
My views on this subject were stated early on somewhere in the first
few thousands of messages, but I just don't think it is right to tape
somebody without a clear understanding and agreement. I think that
as intellectual and performance property becomes more valuable it
will become easier to inflict legal blows on pirates. Since this type
of stuff is not only a moral infringement, it is US Federal Law.
Msg #14194 Dated 8:17:42 08-14-91 14131 <--> 14196
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The first edition of _Modern Coin Magic_1952, Jones, had around 350
pages. _Tne New Modern Coin Magic_pub by Ireland and now Magic, Inc.
has over 500 pages. I prefer the newer edition because of the addl
material, though a first edition is nice for the book shelf.
Msg #14195 Dated 8:17:48 08-14-91 14132 <--> 14223
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: TURTLES
Do the turtle matrix with ceramic turtles and for a finale change
em for a larger Painted Turtle (live) ala giant coin, though I really
don't like to see animals used this way because of the potential
mistreatment; sitting in a dark box somewhere, etc. Maybe just a big
ceramic turtle finish. Do the turtles, though. It's a great idea.
Msg #14196 Dated 8:17:54 08-14-91 14133 <--> 14197
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
As a reincarnated CSA calvary colonel it just seems logical. Actually
I do have my sights set on the USA, There are several really quality
events going on around US, but the dearth is in the southeast and it
is an area I am comfortable with. I do plan on picking a second city
in 1993, but don't have any likely prospects at this point. Nashville
is within 800 miles of almost 60% of the total US population and
really makes for an idea location.
Msg #14197 Dated 8:18:02 08-14-91 14134 <--> 14209
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
What I AM going to TRY to initiate, is to provide an index of prereq
moves and their sources as part of the registration packet I send out
about a month before the event. Since DD is going to be doing the
driving, I'll occupy my time with a clipboard, pen and paper and
try to work some of these ideas into a form that hopefully works for
everyone.
Msg #14199 Dated 8:18:18 08-14-91 14143 <--> 14202
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Yes, audio taping comes under the same catagory as vid in my book,
though a little harder to detect. As policy no recorders of anykind
will be allowed, outside of MAGIC!'s digitization which will be on
a per permission basis. I hadn't thought of audio taping the sympos'm
but that is a good idea and one that we'll implement using pro gear.
If you can't get good audio in Nashville, you just can't get it. I
don't have any thoughts on the disposition of sed tape, but will
make sure all involved arein agreement before proceeding of course
.
Msg #14200 Dated 8:18:28 08-14-91 14149 <--> 14201
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I haven't seen MAGIC2DB so don't know if one is able to specify the
fields,etc; would want to make sure that if this is done that a
proper content and amount of information is included so it will be a
valuable resource rather than a magicians' toy.
.
Also, if the work is done through the labor of MAGIC!'s members that
it be obtainable only through that source - MAGIC!. I would personall
y not like to see this catalog available on Dbase or ilk but Randy's
program would have to give full search and retrieve, preferably
hypertext to be of real value.
Msg #14201 Dated 8:18:38 08-14-91 14150 <--> 14204
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Yes, Stan must be on the committee. I will be happy to provide
entries. I would suggest that rather than members deciding on what
books at random to index, that the committee assign the titles based
on members' requests. I send you a list of 50 books in my possession
that I am familiar with and let you (committee) know that I'll do
any, you let me know which. You (committee) clear and no duplication,
but I'm sure you thought of that already.
Msg #14202 Dated 8:18:45 08-14-91 14151 <--> 14225
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Unfor for the clandestine recording process, it would probably end
up looking and sounding like Mayor Barry of DC getting busted in
the Marriot smoking crack with a hooker.
Msg #14203 Dated 8:18:52 08-14-91 14153 <--> 14227
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
In Japanese Martial Art forms, the teacher is dishonored if his
students get by him. Chinese forms, the teacher is honored when the
student surpasses. Or, so my Chinese Martial Arts teacher told me.
Msg #14204 Dated 8:18:56 08-14-91 14154 <--> 14221
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I would suggest the committee make up a form and put it on the
system keeping all discussions public and invite comments until it
is finalized. I would also hope that whatever database is used, the
provision will be available to enlarge each entry should a new
field be required. I would like to see synopsis and biased review
with an index and brief bio on reviewer/indexer/cataloguer in addit
to stuff like several levels of subject data and the standard card
catalog, ISBN, and Library of Congress type data.
Msg #14205 Dated 8:19:07 08-14-91 14155 <--> 14229
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
Careful Burton. Sounds like you are getting closer to the surrey.
Burtonite The Bizzare and his hangers on, commonly called Burtonites
or simply "the bizarre following" moved into the Vista Hotel
at NY's World Trade Center this morning occupying more than 2,000
rooms in the newly remodled hotel. A crowd consertively estimated at
200,000 rushed BTB's solid ruby Rolls Royce which led the procession
of 40 luxury coaches down the Henry Hudson Parkway. Burtonite
reportedly rides sitting naked in a crystal tub filled with "eagle
milk", though outside his closest lieutenants no one has ever
actually seen the inside of the 22 million dollar automobile built
on a 1934 RR Silver Cloud frame. Noted auto photographer/magician
Peter Biro went undercover two years ago during production on his
coffee table book for _Auto Daily_, "Magic Cars of the Magic Stars"
but dissappeared leaving only a note scrawled on a flyleaf torn
from an old copy of _Mental Mysteries_ which he is know to have had
in his camera bag at the time. The note? ..."The horror....har!"
Msg #14206 Dated 8:19:22 08-14-91 14160 <--> 14207
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
THE FIVE POINTS it is. Thanks.
Msg #14207 Dated 8:19:25 08-14-91 14164 <--> 14334
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
There's too many tricks and not enough thought already.
Msg #14208 Dated 8:19:29 08-14-91 14169 <--> 14231
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
I try to stay optimistic, Wayne, but sometimes it does wear thin.
Msg #14209 Dated 8:44:12 08-14-91 14193 <--> 14211
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Of course it isn't right to tape someone without a clear understanding
and agreement! And I won't even point out that piracy, under certain
circumstances, is not only legal, but it actually included in the U.S.
Constitution! At least as far as the original definition of it goes.
But a policy of no video probably only plays into the hands of pirates,
making any existing pirate material all that much more valuable.
Msg #14210 Dated 8:46:22 08-14-91 -> 14335
From: MICHAEL OVERLY
To: ALL
Re: INFORMATION
Does anyone have information, comments, or a review of Larry Becker's
"Anything Goes Memo Pad" advertised in the latest Linking Ring? Sounds
like a great item to carry around in my briefcase. I would be
interested in hearing from anyone who is familiar with it.
By the way did everybody catch the LA Times article on the library
adjacent to the Castle started by the Larsens? It was in this past
week I believe. Thanks for the information.
Msg #14211 Dated 8:50:42 08-14-91 14194 <--> 14212
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
OK, so those are the only two editions? Later editions of New Modern
did not include additional revisions?
By the way, I seem to have both editions. The New Modern apparently
being the 1966 Magic, Inc. one, autographed.
Msg #14212 Dated 8:52:57 08-14-91 14119 <--> 14213
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Another thought... It seems to me, at the early stages it took me
about 10 years to learn enough stuff to get into the material just
past the neophyte level... maybe these days everyone wants to learn
and do it all in twenty minutes?
.
I think we have Federal Express and CNN to blame for the current
lifestyle.
.
If I shoot a photo job on Sunday the client goes berserk if the
stuff isn't processed, edited, and on his desk at the crack of
dawn on Tuesday.
.
Used to be great if he had it by the end of the week Airmail
Special Delivery!
.
And there used to be wars we never heard of until the Movietone
News showed the films a couple of weeks after....
Msg #14213 Dated 8:53:17 08-14-91 14122 <--> 14214
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I have read so many messages I don't know what I'm reading?
Msg #14214 Dated 8:53:22 08-14-91 14122 <--> 14215
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
We have to do like they do on (if you'll pardon the expression)
COMPUSERVE... When you reply, make a tiny ref to the subject... I
know I am guilt too... from now on I will try ( you too Wayne ).
Msg #14215 Dated 8:53:30 08-14-91 14128 <--> 14216
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
If you are desperate for coin magic... forget Roth. There are dozens
of other great books. Coining Magic by Marlo. Vernon's Stars of
Magic on Spellbound, Slydini on Coins thru the table, Larry Jennings
has some wonderful coin stuff in print. TAkeshi Namoto's fine work,
Ross Bertram, and MAGIC BY GOSH, Albert Goshman!!! Not to mention
(again) J. B. Bobo.... (and I didn't even go to the book room and
look...)
Msg #14216 Dated 8:53:40 08-14-91 14130 <--> 14217
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I don't mind being taped. I discovered looking at the last show I
was taped upon (was taped at?) that I was moving around too much.
You need to see yourself alla time to catch little habits that
develop. I just feel two things. 1) The taping must not be a bother
to ANYONE -- performer or audience. 2) The USE of the tape must be
carefully defined and the taper must live up to his/her word, or
we break his/her arms!
Msg #14217 Dated 8:53:51 08-14-91 14131 <--> 14218
From: PETE BIR
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Magic Inc., Jay and Fran Marshall published the first edition. I
do not know if they added some material on gaffed coins or that
material was added in the Dover Edition. The Dover edition, which
was, I have been told, was given them by Karl Fulves--AND CAUGHT
MAGIC INC. BY SURPRISE.... THEY WERE VERY VERY UPSET BOUT THAT,
but were caught (I believe) (I will ask Jay) by the copyright date
expiring and Fulves moved before they realized it.
Naturally THEY wanted to put the second edition out themselves.
MY OPINION... don't buy the Dover edition UNLESS YOU CANNOT FIND
AN ORIGINAL... AND I AM SURE MAGIC INC. HAS THEM YET.. I know last
time I was in the back room there were piles of them!
And you don't need the new stuff... the original is still the best.
Msg #14218 Dated 8:54:06 08-14-91 14134 <--> 14219
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I think using IMP makes you answer a message to the wrong person,
as you hve both the sender and the sendee up there and you say
something relative to both... but if it ain't prive everybody reads
it anyhooooooooooooo. Rat?
Msg #14219 Dated 8:54:13 08-14-91 14139 <--> 14220
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Lecturers, usually have been around awhile, and should have gone
through the frustrations themselves at the dozens(?) of lectures
they have been to... but NOBODY pays no attention to nobody else
no how. We are all experts and know everything so why do we bother
reading what is in print anyway... Look at all the great tricks
we see and say, "Gee where did that come from?" and later find out
it was in Tarbell 3 -- which we have, but never look between the
covers!
Msg #14220 Dated 8:54:24 08-14-91 14140 <--> 14222
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
He probably doesn't have the space or the money to keep an inventorry
of the videos and/or big books...
What would be nice for a guy like he, is to have a LIST of works
he has published, etc. in the back of the notes.
I bet Max Maven will when he does his next notes!!!
Msg #14221 Dated 8:54:32 08-14-91 14142 <--> 14224
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Isn't there a program in the files for keeping track of acts, etc.
and books? Maybe the book only part could me modified and used to
do this great projecto... I would be happy to do at least a book
a day when I am in town.
Msg #14222 Dated 8:54:38 08-14-91 14144 <--> 14226
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
A big giant YO ON THAT ONE, MM ( lecture quality ) !!!
Msg #14223 Dated 8:54:44 08-14-91 14147 <--> 14237
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: TURTLES
In Carney's new book, Carneycopia (spelling?) I understand he has
published his "coins across" using BULLETS. I know they aren't
Ninja Turtles (have you tried Calif. Raisins?) but he has taken
a coin trick and made it into something unique... primarily by
just changing the props!
Msg #14224 Dated 8:54:52 08-14-91 14149 <--> 14228
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I had just mentioned MAGIC2DB but had forgotten its name and author.
Shame... but that set up, WITH ONLY THE BOOKS PART would be a good
way to go.
.
You would need to LIST all the effects... (I don't know the format
but... something like this would be from one book) (briefly)
Coins thru table
Coin and Handkerchief
Coin eaten turns to gold rug
Rope through Arm
Rope stretched 3-percent
Silk change to dog
Silk shrinks
Shoe appears on nose
Egg eaten by dog
Dog eats silks, eggs, coins and rope
Act is over.
.
OK, then you hve to be able to sort all the coin tricks, right?
So they end up in a list with the book name, author following?
Hope this made sense, even tho I no longer have a dog.
Msg #14225 Dated 8:55:14 08-14-91 14151 <--> 14235
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
When I don't want to be taped, I just wear foil lined underwear!
Msg #14226 Dated 8:53:59 08-14-91 14197 <--> 14246
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The index of prerequisite moves, sent out in advance, does indeed sound
like a good approach. But is there a possibility that it will "scare
off" registrants?
Msg #14227 Dated 8:55:18 08-14-91 14153 <--> 14234
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
You thought Who Had? And what tape to pete? Scotch? Adhesive? Hah.
Boy I just viewed a video of an entry in the Seminar Comedy Chall-
enge and wanted to hit the guy in the head! He threw stuff into
the face of his lady assistant and treated here like a dirty rug!
NOT EVEN FUNNY if you hate women!
Maybe the worst act I have seen. I don't know what these guys are
thinking. I guess the glitter stripes on his tux and the Zolaton
paint job on his roll on table were supposed to let you know he
was going to be hilarious! Archghghghadkjeoiabvhsfkjafkdjg ei8.
Msg #14228 Dated 8:55:29 08-14-91 14154 <--> 14251
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RESEARCH
As to the form,,, I got to zip outa town for cople days, will do
some thinkin... maybe need to see what form the Master Index to
Print (Potter) takes and be somewhat compatible.
T A, CAN YOU SEND A COUPLE OF ENTRIES ONLINE SO I CAN SEE WHAT
INFO WE NEED TO TRACK?
Msg #14229 Dated 8:55:37 08-14-91 14155 <--> 14333
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
Do you own property on a mountain top? How about being called, "Le
Grand Jerry" ?
.
But don't stock up on cool aid.
Msg #14230 Dated 8:55:43 08-14-91 14157 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: YO
A valium breakfast is good for audition days... altho I used to
only just take an Alka Seltzer - and skip lunch.
Msg #14231 Dated 8:55:48 08-14-91 14166 <--> 14232
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
What the hay? Gee I always thought it was HEY... You see what
happens is this... at this terminal/work station. I haven't been
sleeping well since i was thrown out of my life, house, dogs, cats,
and wife... so I get up, groggy, turn on the water (I have burned
the bottom out of two teakettles) and download messages.
Pour the water into Intant Yuban, toss in two saccharine tabs, and
some "expired" milk. Add Muslix to a cracked bowl, and put the rest
of the milk in. If it is still dark, I walk thru before I get my
robe... then I fumble my way thru replies...
When done, go into the library, which contains a couple thou books
and sort some more of them out. Got a hole section on comedy now.
Also gambling, Antiquarian stuff, catalogs etc. One shelf is all
books I got in my first year.
Then I fiddle with a couple of the thousand or so stupid tricks I
got from wonderful (?) magic dealers.
Then I juggle for awhile to keep in shape.
Then after looking at the thousand or so tricks, I grab my "act
case" which has the five tricks in it that I always do for real
people! Sometimes I pick it up and do all the stuff just so I don't
forget how.
Now it is time for chicken sandwich with good mustard.
Now I wait for mail. No check today... fooo....
Better water the lawn and practice the card move I learned from
Mike Close... but first, it's been three hours better check MAGIC!
AD INFINITUM...
Msg #14232 Dated 8:56:14 08-14-91 14167 <--> 14233
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
READING ABOUT IT? See it would be so easy to just add the work
and we would know what you is talkin' 'bout massa.
Msg #14233 Dated 8:56:18 08-14-91 14168 <--> 14255
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
Didn't he change his name to Muhammad?
Msg #14234 Dated 8:56:21 08-14-91 14171 <--> 14332
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Is Shag's real name Bolivor P. Shagnasty? If so, I've seen him.
Or is it Her?
Msg #14235 Dated 8:56:26 08-14-91 14175 <--> 14238
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Commensurate with television fees. You mean BROADCAST? If someone
tapes it for study by themselves would you consider a different
rate? Of course putting it in writing.
Msg #14236 Dated 8:56:31 08-14-91 14176 <--> 14536
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: NEWS
I bet he was doing a pile trick!
Msg #14237 Dated 8:56:14 08-14-91 14223 <--> 14249
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TURTLES
You are hereby notified that I have a prior claim to all such
transposed effects using FROGS.
Msg #14238 Dated 8:56:35 08-14-91 14178 <--> 14239
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Sharing a tape with friends, fellow club members, etc. is OK by
ME... if it is promised that is the intent. You see I have the
theory that EXPOSURE (of you, not the secrets) IS IMPORTANT...
Acts on shows that don't want to be taped are missing a great
selling tool. We have had MANY acts taped by NHK and seen in
Japan and that visibility has gotten them GREAT BOOKINGS in japan.
Lecture tours, review shows, etc. If they had not been taped they
would still be sitting home and have never been to Japan.
I might be wrong.. but Maven-san can correct me if I am, but the
Magic Napoleons became big stars in Japan FOLLOWING (and primarily
because of) their NHK taping at an IBM convention. This is what
I have been told.
Msg #14239 Dated 8:56:50 08-14-91 14183 <--> 14241
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
This is time to either break some heads or send them a bill with
a nasty letter from your lawywer... or if an IBM member from the
organization's legal counsel -- Jack Browne III, who would be glad
to do the letter and legal work.
Msg #14240 Dated 8:56:57 08-14-91 14187 <--> 14243
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: GIANT SILVER HALF DOLLAR
You could do like Fred Kaps, and use Chinese Coins and produce the
giant brass chinese coins... I have a Silver Dollar made in heavy
metal that is about 7-inches across... and whenever I work I use
silver dollars -- once you do you feel like Half Dollars are too
light and toy coins. Have a cap and pence made in dollars too.
Shell dollars, Hoo coins, etc. all matching. I also have a huge
Dollar that is about a foot across. Ken Brooke got me doing that
production at the finish. And you don't have to do anything clever.
After the production of the 6 or seven inch coin you just get
up... like act is over... and THROW the jumbo coin on the table.
He just had it alongside the chair, or sometimes sat on it. You
do not need to make a magic thing out of it... Just over the surpise
of the previous coin, you pick the biggeee up and toss it down, and
say something like, "Here, TRY THIS ONE...." Bang!!!
Martin Lewis, in either his notes, or "Martins' Miracles" (Magical
Publications) has a GREAT jumbo coin finale. I used to watch him
do this all the time at the Magic Cellar. Kaps got the inspiration
for his coin routine from Martins. Martin's is very easy to do,
and variants using the Chinatown Dollar are easy to devise! It
uses a handkerchief for the cover of the load, making it angle
proof! A worthy addition to anh table worker's arsenal.
Msg #14241 Dated 8:58:07 08-14-91 14199 <--> 14244
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Gee, Tab, are you going to let the participants have pencil and paper?
And, in truth, if so, why?
Msg #14242 Dated 9:03:22 08-14-91 14184 <--> 14340
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: CLASSIC RENDITIONS
I hope they wait til I get back from TN so I can find out about it
here and can catch it. I'll check in tonight to see if there's any
word yet and then I'm off til next tuesday. Man, I just got two
early 1900s Conradi nickle plated folding side table stands. They
are so coool. I've got both of them standing on my desk right now
til I get back. Have two hand carved aluminum stands coming in
while I'm gone. I plan on putting some special tabman table tops on
them and displaying them in a few years. Ever heard of Steen Mfg?
They supposedly make 50 very special table stands. Most exquisite
work I'm told. I will see soon.
Msg #14243 Dated 9:03:33 08-14-91 14187 <--> 14302
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: GIANT SILVER HALF DOLLAR
The giant liberty half of silver sounds wonderful. The liberty
coins are the most beautiful ever done. What is the phone number
for the 1 lb silver liberty?
Msg #14244 Dated 8:59:21 08-14-91 14202 <--> 14245
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Most personal notetaking videos end up looking like they were done in
the manner you describe. If the person is after pure notetaking for
themselves, such videos generally suffice. I suspect, however, that
someone who had designs on producing a "quality" clandestine video
could do quite a bit better than that.
Remember, it is the LACK of legal video that CREATES a
market for an illegal one. Personally, I like the idea of an
on-the-scene "notetaking" video being made with the involvement of the
lecturer. These could be sold at some reasonable price ($10 being
reasonable in a convention or conference setting where someone would
want to buy video lecture notes of multiple lecturers) in the lobby.
I would prefer to see this type of video note - an actual video of the
lecture I just attended - either in lieu of, or in addition to, any
other video the lecturer might choose to sell. That way, I could be
assured that what I attended was what I got, rather than the problem
that occurs with pre-prepared lecture notes or studio made videos.
The price should be in line with what someone would pay for printed
lecture notes (it is likely that the cost of the cassette, etc. would
actually be approximately the same or possibly even less than the cost
of producing paper lecture notes).
Lecture notes are a pain to produce and require a great deal of time
and careful thought. As a result, they are not updated as often as
they should be (in many, not all cases, of course). The same is true
with a pre-prepared video. Having a record of the actual lecture
attended eliminates these problems and makes it VERY EASY for the
lecturer as well as the attendee.
Such a video would, by its very nature, only be as valuable as the
paper notes - it would not be suitable for television broadcast, any
more than the general run of lecture notes are replacements for books.
Those lecturers who demurred from participating would, of course, not
have such notes recorded. A sign in front of the lecture room could
provide information on which lectures would have video-notes available.
Naturally, I suspect that if the lecturer offers both printed notes and
the opportunity to buy the video-notes, many of the attendees will
buy both.
Msg #14245 Dated 9:27:29 08-14-91 14225 <--> 14248
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Yeah! Foil lined underware - the crackling when you move destroys the
audio!
Msg #14246 Dated 9:30:33 08-14-91 14211 <--> 14247
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
As far as I know, revised in 1966 and several printings up to
1978. Beyond that, I don't know.
Msg #14247 Dated 9:30:38 08-14-91 14226 <--> 14256
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I certainly don't think it would scare off registrants since they
would already be registered for the event. I'd think they would want
to know in advance stuff that will be used so they can take at least
a few minutes to look it over. Maybe everybody will be like Mr. Maven
and go over everything required in the lecture. I would think in the
very least that it would force lecturers to think about what they are
going to do and perhaps define their goals better as well as provide
a more enlightened participant.
Msg #14248 Dated 9:30:46 08-14-91 14241 <--> 14250
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
I'm having trouble taking your comment seriously. If you are serious
then you really don't know me. No taping is pretty much a standard
proceedure and a wise one. Certainly take notes, make recordings,
whatever the lecturer allows. If you'll notice the lineup for the
MCCM, there is no fluff. I'm serious about what I'm doing and I
also know others who are serious about it. I suggest you consider
starting a bbs called COMEDY!.
Msg #14249 Dated 9:30:53 08-14-91 14223 <--> 14338
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TURTLES
Why not do an across routine or matrix using blasting caps and wear
a hard hat and goggles while you are doing it?
Msg #14250 Dated 9:29:17 08-14-91 14238 <--> 14262
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Actually, of course, you are right - video is a powerful stimulant to
want to see the person perform or lecture live. It is not a
replacement for the lecture anymore than a book or lecture notes deters
someone from attending. How many people would avoid going to a
Copperfield show because they'd already seen him on television?
Msg #14251 Dated 9:32:22 08-14-91 14200 <--> 14252
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I agree that it would be a resource for MAGIC! members. We'll have to
wait for Randy to return from his vacation on his yacht. I believe
that he is still in a position where he could modify MAGIC3DB to suit
any structure we might want to create.
Msg #14252 Dated 9:34:04 08-14-91 14201 <--> 14253
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I had thought of the duplication situation. But I want to get the
other issues - the how to do it - hammered out first. I have no
pre-concepts on how the work itself should be done.
Msg #14253 Dated 9:35:59 08-14-91 14221 <--> 14254
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Indeed, MAGIC2DB is the program you are referring to. Randy Lund
created it and it does have a book section. He has been working on a
new version - MAGIC3DB - which has additional capacity. I don't think
he has finished it yet, so it is possible that he could make the
changes necessary to include the concept we are working on. But Randy
is on vacation right now and we will have to wait for his return before
we know for sure.
Msg #14254 Dated 9:38:20 08-14-91 14224 <--> 14331
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Biro -
I WANT THAT BOOK! I've been dying to do "Shoe Appears On Nose" and
couldn't find it anywhere! Seriously, I THINK the idea would be to
have the effects sortable by a variety of different critera that will
be developed by the committee and presented to the MAGIC! members.
There will have to be some standardization of terms, etc.
Msg #14255 Dated 9:44:42 08-14-91 14231 <--> 14345
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
Having now fried TWO teakettles, methinks it is time you got a small
microwave to boil water in.
Msg #14256 Dated 9:47:08 08-14-91 14214 <--> 14257
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
YES, Biro - A small reference to what you are replying to would be
nice! EVEN BETTER would be to consider ENTERING A NEW THREAD with a
REAL TOPIC. RDMAGIC makes that VERY EASY to do - easier, even, than
using MAGIC! directly does.
Msg #14257 Dated 9:49:09 08-14-91 14216 <--> 14258
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I agree with you - the taping should NOT be allowed to distract either
the performer/lecturer or the audience from the live performance. By
legitimizing the process and by restricting it to the official
conference note-video, you clarify the use since a written agreement
will exist between the performer/lecturer and the conference. As to
the purchasor - I think that the type of video it is, coupled with a
very reasonable price, and the sudden surge in available material would
serve to DECREASE illegal copying, etc.
It is time that we started THINKING about this technology and about how
to make it worthwile to all concerned, rather than attempting to bury
our heads in the sand with a "no tape" policy.
Msg #14258 Dated 9:58:50 08-14-91 14217 <--> 14259
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The original Bobo was published in 1952. The Dover edition was in
1982. I believe that even in 1982 the copyright law was more than 30
years. The Dover edition is a copy of the original, not of the New
Modern edition.
Msg #14259 Dated 10:01:07 08-14-91 14218 <--> 14260
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Either MAGIC! - OR - RDAMGIC/IMP allow you to either REPLY or APPEND.
A REPLY is addressed to the person who SENT the first message, an
APPEND is addressed to the person the original message was SENT TO.
Yes, if it isn't identified as personal, everyone can read it anyway.
But it is always nice to get one's own mail.
Msg #14260 Dated 10:04:00 08-14-91 14220 <--> 14261
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Max's Bibliography thru December of 1990 is available as a file right
here on MAGIC! It runs approximately 17 typed pages.
Max's Bibliography can be found in files area #2 in both full-text and
zipped form.
Msg #14261 Dated 10:08:56 08-14-91 14247 <--> 14266
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
You are right - it would be an excellent advance organizer for the
lecturers. And it might not scare anyone off if they were also told
that there were going to be some lectures that did not require
sleights, etc. As you know, a good conclave, unless the participants
are preselected for their knowledge or skill, has to meet a lot of
different needs.
Msg #14262 Dated 10:11:27 08-14-91 14248 <--> 14268
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Beg pardon, Tabster, but my comment about pencils and paper WAS
serious. Media are media. The real key is not to penalize an attendee
for his or her differences in learning style. Max, for example, has
what is quite probably an eidetic memory. Some folks have extremely
good notetaking (paper and pencil) skills. Others would learn best
from video-notes. Why should one group be penalized more than the
other? Is paper and pencil somehow more sacred, just because it is
more ancient? Isn't it possible that someone sitting next to me,
flipping pages in a notebook and making noise with a pencil will
distract me?
Msg #14264 Dated 10:55:34 08-14-91 -> 14349
From: MARVIN STERN
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: FRI LUNCH
I have the following for you:
pix of you and Evi at SAM Banquet:
Poster of Mystique -from Blackpool --Do you want?
I can bring one or both Fri, if you are going to be there.
Heard great new joke, and will tell you then.
Msg #14266 Dated 11:30:23 08-14-91 14258 <--> 14267
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The copyright in 1952 was good for 27 years or the life of the holder
and was renewable for an addl 27. The the new cpr laws came into
effect they didn't "grandfather" former stuff into it. Evidentally
they neglected to renew the original which assumably was assigned
to Ireland/Magic Inc.,
Msg #14267 Dated 11:30:30 08-14-91 14261 <--> 14300
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I strive to meet those varied needs with a varied program of
professionals. The line up is creating some excitement in Music
City.
Msg #14268 Dated 11:30:35 08-14-91 14262 <--> 14299
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
I certainly see your point, but the abuse of the recording system
has spooked a lot of people. In my opinion, while "media is media"
that's all it is. Comparing pencil and paper to high resolution
low light video recording is stretching the point. You do have a
point on paper flipping and I'll address it and insist that all notes
be made with ballpoint as pencil bothers some people. I have thought
for sometime that live concert videos made available by the performer
would be a good way to go to pick up some pocket change and provide
a service to the attendents. All these points everyone is making
will perhaps go into a questionairre to be sent to the lecturers.
Thanks.
Msg #14270 Dated 12:00:29 08-14-91 -> 14276
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
I am not sure if this is the beginning of another inane thread or the
undisciplined growth of a new rhizome.
Msg #14271 Dated 12:00:39 08-14-91 -> 14274
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I guess I'm gonna have to go buy an album and listen.
Msg #14272 Dated 12:00:44 08-14-91
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MESSAGES
Sounds great! If he doesn't call me, I'll try to call him.
Msg #14273 Dated 12:00:50 08-14-91 -> 14283
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TRIX
I have never leaned over the bar to check on that. Maybe that's why
some of them wear aprons.
Msg #14274 Dated 12:01:00 08-14-91 -> 14277
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I am sure that Dave's work with Rocky (which MM distributes) didn't
hurt them AT all.
Msg #14275 Dated 12:01:07 08-14-91 -> 14306
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LOS AMIGOS
A sound approach to life...although sometimes it gets confusing. As
when working on a model; it seems the more detailed the better the
whole appears (does complexity produce simplicity?). Certainly, the
simpliest approach is often the best in the case of magic effects.
Msg #14276 Dated 12:01:18 08-14-91 -> 14293
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
We probably should set ourselves a day and time to do it...otherwise
we will jest keep on talkin' 'bout it and never git 'round to it.
Msg #14277 Dated 12:01:26 08-14-91 -> 14278
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Yes...I think you are correct. Although some of us might be less
than willing to admit it.
Msg #14278 Dated 12:01:35 08-14-91 -> 14279
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Indeed! Particularly if you consider the fact that all of this place
was once Virginia!
Msg #14279 Dated 12:01:44 08-14-91 -> 14282
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Did you place the emphasis on the ...gila... or the ...lay... ?
Msg #14280 Dated 12:01:50 08-14-91 -> 14281
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Usually, it is while they are sitting still unless they are playing
golf.
Msg #14281 Dated 12:01:58 08-14-91 -> 14292
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LAWYERS
I have yet to see what you are doing with these lists! I am hardy
the judge of whether of not I do something well. If you wish to know
ten tricks I perform now and then I will give you a list...I seldom
do more than three or four of these at any given time.
1. O'Henry Aces
2. Cups and Balls (2 cup routine)
3. Malini Egg Bag
4. Gypsy Curse
5. Ramsay's Coins and Cylinder
6. Sponge Balls
7. a version of Mexican Monte
8. Cross-Roader
9. Cap and Pense
10. A one coin routine
Due to the kids involvement in school, scouting, etc. I have recently
been unable to avoid sometimes having do perform at some of these
activities...therefore I will add a few things that I have dredged up
from my distant magical past and am again performing...
11. Duke's Dyeversion
12. Mis-Made Flag
13. Blo-Van - Candle to Silk plus bits and pieces of other stuff
14. Miser's Dream
15. A Jumbo Split Deck Routine
Finally, I would add that in less formal situations, I will often
find myself either with coins, or a deck of cards and embarked on a
sequence of effects which vary with my mood, the spectator(s) and
their reaction. I have no real idea where I might be goig when I
start or at exactly what point I will stop...although it would never
involve more than 4 or 5 effects within the sequence. I don't want
to imply a lengthy performance. The rest of my time is spend trying
to forget all the stuff I learned when I used to go to club meetings.
Msg #14282 Dated 12:03:08 08-14-91 -> 14288
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
No...no....Pete! They are not food. Toccata, Cheese, and Fugue just
appeared at Abbott's! You might want to consider booking them for
SLC.
Msg #14283 Dated 12:03:19 08-14-91 -> 14284
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRIX
Thanks! I will look for the Stuthard Book. I am really not research
ing this, I just saw the movie "The Grifters" and didn't understand
a couple of the scams, so I am reading Thomas' book.
Msg #14284 Dated 12:03:29 08-14-91 -> 14510
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRIX
I have heard that Shields story before either from you or someone
else...although I don't recall that not wearing pants was the topic
triggering it's telling.
Msg #14285 Dated 12:03:39 08-14-91 -> 14321
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: NEW AGE MAGIC
It was the nails up the nose, pins through the cheeks, and
fire eating that discouraged me. I think the magicians did at least
half of the 10 in the 1.
Msg #14286 Dated 12:03:48 08-14-91 -> 14295
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
Simple...just color code the toupees.
Msg #14288 Dated 12:04:11 08-14-91 -> 14289
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Pete...YOU are a piece of real ART, not just your demonstration of
the Nickels to Dimes.
Msg #14289 Dated 12:04:20 08-14-91 -> 14290
From: BILL WELLS
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I think it is safe to say that this thread has literally gone to the
dogs... (I really didn't say that did I?)
Msg #14290 Dated 12:04:28 08-14-91 -> 14291
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
OK...even water gets misused!
I have never seen any studies or data on magic income or revenue
breakdown. The I.B.M. doesn't collect any such data. A highly
selective poll of the handfull of people doing these things is about
the only way such information is likely to be gathered.
Msg #14291 Dated 12:04:42 08-14-91 -> 14296
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
The dueling foils and pistols have been put away, sir. I accept your
generous apology. Please join me in having a mint julep on the
verandah.
Msg #14292 Dated 12:04:53 08-14-91 -> 14297
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LAWYERS
If you think the Sysop and his attitude regarding amphibian appendage
s is outspoken, then please don't get me started on bumper stickers
the epidemic of "cutesyism" that infects this country. I know you
are kidding, but I'm not.
I like the definition of a Lawyer.
Msg #14293 Dated 12:05:08 08-14-91 -> 14303
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
You didn't need the quotation marks. Although I have trouble
counting higher than two, I try to avoid acknowledging entendres
even when they appear in groups.
Msg #14294 Dated 12:05:16 08-14-91 -> 14323
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: OLD RESPONSES
There was an interesting column in the Washington Post marking the
tenth anniversary of the IBM PC that mentioned the prices of not only
the PC at somewhere around $3300, but also a 10 MB hard drive at
around $3600 which was needed since the PC was sold without one and
IBM didn't market one.
Msg #14295 Dated 12:05:31 08-14-91 -> 14322
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
I generally don't believe in feeding egos for any reason, unless I am
in the process of negotiating with them. I didn't accuse you of
either of those things and said so. I think we pretty much agree on
this. Having lived longer than you, I am probably a little less
tolerant.
Msg #14296 Dated 12:05:47 08-14-91 -> 14298
From: BILL WELLS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I suppose that "magicalumpen" (a and all) will be pretty much like
art in having its meaning tempered and defined by whomever happens to
be using it in whatever context. When I use it I am not laughing at
anyone, I am gently bemoaning the lack of appreciation for our
beloved magic by so many unthinking would be magicians.
Msg #14297 Dated 12:06:02 08-14-91 -> 14309
From: BILL WELLS
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: LAWYERS
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
Msg #14298 Dated 12:06:07 08-14-91 -> 14304
From: BILL WELLS
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Yes, I understand the distinction, but am having enough trouble
trying to get this motley mob to break down magic into discussable
elements. What did you think of Tommy's comment?
Msg #14299 Dated 12:04:42 08-14-91 14244 <--> 14314
From: STAN LAKE
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Another good reason for video notes being made available is in the case
of the Day Of Magic seminar and other similar seminars with multiple
lectures going on at the same time. It is unfortunate that you can't
attend them all but if the video notes were available then you could
purchase the notes for the lectures you were not able to attend as well
as the ones you did attend.
Msg #14300 Dated 12:06:17 08-14-91 -> 14312
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I also wouldn't expect to be able to master moves within the context
of a lecture. At best one might gain the motivation, interest, and
or stimulus to go home and work on them. Many of these things are
like having an arsenal of weapons, you do a coin effect but you might
use different sleights or moves depending on the situation. David
could have written it up one way and actually do it a number of ways
depending on the situation. Larry Jennings used to say (probably
still does) what if you went to a Brain Surgeon and he told you he
was gonna be using a tablespoon to operate on you cause that is the
only method he ever learned. Larry's point being, of course, that if
you are gonna be a cardician you gotta know all the tools available
to you. Same is true if you wanna do the type of routines David does
with coins. You need to know a lot more than just the routine in
question.
Msg #14301 Dated 12:07:15 08-14-91 -> 14393
From: BILL WELLS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: REST OF #13725
Sometimes IMP and I don't see eye to eye on transmission of
messages...please add the following to message #13725 regarding
the ongoing ramblings on magic and art and whether the twain
shall meet:
Ours is a sacred trust that harkens to the dawn of man. Magic is
the father of civilization. It is more that just a form of
entertainment. It's appeal lies in the seeming ability of a
fellow human to overcome and control the laws of nature and the
restrictions therein. I don't feel that appeal and heritage are
art. I agree with you that the art is in how the mystery is
expressed.
I am sure your day wasn't complete without the above!
Msg #14302 Dated 12:11:10 08-14-91 14243 <--> 14328
From: STAN LAKE
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: GIANT SILVER HALF DOLLAR
One pound silver liberty's may be purchased at Foothill coins,
5627 Sepulveda Blvd. Dept. f-6, Van Nuys, CA 91411. Phone (818)347-0000
Msg #14303 Dated 12:34:55 08-14-91 14270 <--> 14307
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
What is a rhizome?
Msg #14304 Dated 12:34:59 08-14-91 14271 <--> 14305
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
You'd like Sting's new album. I've listened to it several times
already and the only tape I allow currently in office besides my
old radio shows.
Msg #14305 Dated 12:35:04 08-14-91 14274 <--> 14308
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Well, they MM seem like a bunch of nice guys; easy to get along with.
Msg #14306 Dated 12:35:08 08-14-91 14275 <--> 14728
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: LOS AMIGOS
The attention to the simple detail can, in the case of something
with many areas of detail can produce in the end something most
complex. It is the attention to the simple details, no matter how
many there are, which produces fine work. This is breaking down
complex structures into the each and only. I'm starting to wonder
if Ricky Jay didn't have something after all.
Msg #14307 Dated 12:35:15 08-14-91 14276 <--> 14317
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
That's true. How bout sometime in September.
Msg #14308 Dated 12:35:18 08-14-91 14278 <--> 14318
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Yes. Indeed.
Msg #14309 Dated 12:33:46 08-14-91 14297 <--> 14320
From: STAN LAKE
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Sorry Bill, I should have put a "ha, ha!" after that comment about the
IBM sanctioning that bumper sticker. Everyone knows that a reputable
group such as the IBM would not stoop to a low level of vulgarity.
Maybe a high level of vulgarity? (ha, ha- just kidding again!)
Msg #14311 Dated 13:02:26 08-14-91 -> 14324
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: 100
Cheesh... from a late breakfast to an early lunch... there were exactly
100 new messages!
Msg #14312 Dated 13:01:14 08-14-91 14266 <--> 14313
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: COPYRIGHT/MODERN COIN
Argh! (tm - Biro) The Dover edition (I do have one) appears to list NO
copyright - hence tossing Modern Coin Magic (Not "NEW Modern") - into
PUBLIC DOMAIN. There is a note on the copyright page that reads, "This
Dover edition, first published in 1982, is an unabridged republication
of the work originally published by Carl W. Jones, Minneapolis, in
1952."
Msg #14313 Dated 13:06:28 08-14-91 14267 <--> 14329
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MUSIC CITY CONCLAVE
OK, as long as the advance organizer list lets folks know that. I'll
bet the Music City Conclave is gonna make the Parthenon rock!
Do me a favor while you are there this weekend, if you have a chance.
See if the phone book has a resturant called Cross Keys. OK?
Also, I'm testing something - using New Topic to see if it splits the
threads. I'm kinda tired of everything being called Roth Review, but
I have a bad feeling about how New Topic works.
Msg #14314 Dated 13:12:19 08-14-91 14268 <--> 14315
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
The easiest thing for anyone to say when confronted with something new
is "No." I wonder how much abuse there has really been, vs. genuine
attempts to make the new media appropriate and useful. It is VERY
LIKELY that the "No!"'s have _caused_ much of the abuse!
Sending a questionnaire to the lecturers is probably not the best
solution. First of all, unless they are either self-enlightened and
have thought things through, or unless they are reading this thread
(which is likely in over half the cases), they will probably resort to
the gut reaction - "No." Secondly, the point of view of the attendees
is _at_ _least_ _as_ _important_ as that of the presentors.
I didn't mean for this thread to fall into the lap of the Music City
Conclave. Suddenly it seems that a generic issue in the field, one
that seems to remain unresolved given the bubbling up of the topic
again on MAGIC!, has dumped itself into the first creative new
conference to come along.
Msg #14315 Dated 13:18:25 08-14-91 14299 <--> 14327
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
A good point, Stan. I think that video-notes enrich the entire
seminar/conference environment for many, many reasons. If risk of
abuse is the sole consideration in the adoption of beneficial new
technology, then we should definitely all WALK to conferences!
Msg #14317 Dated 13:24:08 08-14-91 14293 <--> 14350
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
Shhhh! Don't tell Evan that I used quotation marks gratuitously. I
think that the correct term for a "group" of more than two entendres is
either a gaggle or a giggle of entendres.
Msg #14318 Dated 13:30:06 08-14-91 14290 <--> 14319
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Interesting - most activities have some data. "In 1991, projected
sales for the video game industry are expected to reach 4.7 billion
dollars." Record sales vs. cassettes or CD's, etc. Would seem to me
that even most arts have some measure. I don't know enough about how
such data is really collected, or I'd do it myself.
Msg #14319 Dated 13:34:01 08-14-91 14291 <--> 14352
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Thank you, Sir. I appreciate your undertanding of the situation. Let
me step to the edge of the verandah and gather some fresh mint.
Msg #14320 Dated 13:39:35 08-14-91 14292 <--> 14351
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: LAWYERS
I will attempt to avoid mentioning vehicular appendages in the future.
T-shirts, on the other hand...
Msg #14321 Dated 13:41:48 08-14-91 14285 <--> 14736
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: NEW AGE MAGIC
Not long ago we had a nails up the nose guy as Parlour magician at the
Castle. I believe we had two geek acts back-to-back that week, but I
didn't stay to see the second one. Makes one wonder about the
selection policy.
Msg #14322 Dated 13:46:24 08-14-91 14295 <--> 14428
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
Interesting! As time goes by, I find myself becoming more tolerant.
I think it is because I now move slower. My current karate chop looks
more like I'm waving.
Msg #14323 Dated 13:48:26 08-14-91 14294 <--> 14738
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: OLD RESPONSES
I don't recall what we paid for our first PC - I tried to look it up,
but didn't find the paperwork. The first PC came with 16K standard
RAM, expandable to 64K, and NO diskette drives. Diskette drives were
extra - originally one was supposed to use the cassette port to store
programs on audio cassettes. I also don't recall what we paid for our
first hard drives for PC's but it was substantial. And so were the
drives - full-height 5-Meg. 10-Meg was introduced later.
Msg #14324 Dated 13:53:06 08-14-91 14311 <--> 14731
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: 100
Yes, the morning coffee klatch here on MAGIC! was cookin' this morning.
Bill Wells often joins in, but he was late. I think, however, that a
lot of those messages had considerable substance.
Msg #14327 Dated 14:05:37 08-14-91 14188 <--> 14339
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Possibly the lecturer could have a video being made of that
performance and have an order form that attendees ONLY could fill
out and pay for. This way it is under the control of the lecturer
and produces additional income.
.
I don't know if there is a copy proof video tape? Never heard of
it... no matter what... others will see it... but you have to live
with that no matter what.
Msg #14328 Dated 14:05:49 08-14-91 14190 <--> 14376
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: GIANT SILVER HALF DOLLAR
The trouble with most halves, nickels, pennies that you see and can
buy at magic shops is they are CRAP. Made in the wrong material.
They LOOK and FEEL cheap! I wouln't use one if my life depended on
it. And... and... a new ad has appeared from an Italian Dealer
offering the "man shaped" and other Chinese Coins, for a famous
routine in (if you'll pardon the reference) the Bobo Coin Book.
.
I WARN YOU... these coins are made of a light alloy, probably
aluminum and are "copper colored" -- and are too light, have a bad
feel and are CHEAP looking. Why they weren't made in bronze or
brass I don't know.
.
NOTE: Are any of you interested in have a COIN minted withyour
own face and slogan on same? Let me know. I am working with someone
to price these out... and think they will be fairly reasonable.
$2 $3 each in lots of 100. Great business cards. And you can gaff
them too (if you know how). Lemme know.
Msg #14329 Dated 14:06:08 08-14-91 14194 <--> 14330
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Gee I didn't know Jones did the first ed. Are you sure? I wll have
to phone Jay Marshall right away...
Msg #14330 Dated 14:06:14 08-14-91 14196 <--> 14336
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Don't forget the Monte Carlo Conclave. I have to get back there to
retrieve the tie that gal took off my body one night at the disco.
Msg #14331 Dated 14:06:21 08-14-91 14200 <--> 14343
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: RESEARCH
See my earlier msg about being compatible with the Potter Master
Index... which would be nice to have on a disk.
Msg #14332 Dated 14:06:26 08-14-91 14203 <--> 14373
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
I guess will have to check POLICY with Phoa Yan Tiong, THE marial
arts professor in Amsterdam, and one fine magician. Gee, I owe him
a letter. If you all (not just El-Tab) want to study magic, its
thoery and philosophy of an act and its many phases, Phoa's trilogy
(only 1 and 3 have been published) called "Seasons" is MUST READING.
The last set I saw were in the $60 range. I don't know where you
will find them... but try the usual sources.
.
A message to MAGIC_NL might be the hot tip.
.
Phoa is one of the nicest guys on the planet and one of the
strongest (physically and magically) anywhere.
Msg #14333 Dated 14:06:41 08-14-91 14205 <--> 14381
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
And the last thing reported was they were living on an island
called "Burtonesia" -- one of the (really) Lesser Antiles!
Msg #14334 Dated 14:06:46 08-14-91 14207 <--> 14369
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
No you have it backwards. There is not enough thought and too many
tricks, already!
Msg #14335 Dated 14:06:50 08-14-91 14210 <--> 14539
From: PETE BIRO
To: MICHAEL OVERLY (X)
Re: INFORMATION
No, don't get the La Times up here... what Library Started by
the Larsens? Or is it just the Castle Library and/or the VAC stuff.
Let me know... let me know... argh...
Msg #14336 Dated 14:06:56 08-14-91 14211 <--> 14337
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The last ed of Modern Coin... I understand is a Dover knock off!
Msg #14337 Dated 14:07:01 08-14-91 14226 <--> 14347
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I think we are on the wrong tack here... I think it is incumbant
to the lecturer to teach AT THE LECTURE. If a basic move is part
of it he/she needs to explain it -- if some one asks... I mean, if
you don't know the biddle grip, the Elmsley count or a Zarrow
shuffle, when mentioned... you got to ask and the lecturer should
either show you, tell you to see him later... whatever...
Msg #14338 Dated 14:07:11 08-14-91 14237 <--> 14368
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TURTLES
Wait til I tell Mike Close! Hah... I got some new work on the Frog
trick... you better hurry!
Msg #14339 Dated 14:07:16 08-14-91 14241 <--> 14342
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Have Harry Lorayne lecture first... teaching them all his memory
system... then who needs pen and pad?
Msg #14340 Dated 14:07:21 08-14-91 14242 <--> 14383
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CLASSIC RENDITIONS
Yeah... Steen... made Grade A+ stuff. Got some around here sumplace.
Msg #14341 Dated 14:07:24 08-14-91 -> 14357
From: PETE BIRO
To: ER
Re: I DON'T THINK I WANT TO S
matrix. Coins were totally ON FIRE. A killer... my pal Joe stevens
is gonna be the USA dealer for the item. Coins with huge flames
burning awy. Ask Ammar what he thot.
Msg #14342 Dated 14:07:32 08-14-91 14250 <--> 14348
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
The amazing thing with Copperfield, when I saw him live at Caesars,
was the reaction of the audience when an illusion was wheeled on
stage... that they had seen on tV... they applauded the beginning
of the effect, like audeinces applaude a Top Singing Star when they
begin to do one of their classic hit tunes...
Msg #14343 Dated 14:07:40 08-14-91 14251 <--> 14344
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Needs to be BOOKDB, no tricks, shows, fees, routines... jus' boox.
Msg #14344 Dated 14:07:44 08-14-91 14254 <--> 14367
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Read my lips... follow the Potter Index... that way is compatible
and some day when OCR is good enuf we put the Potter Index into
it.... no need to re invent any wheels here.
Msg #14345 Dated 14:07:50 08-14-91 14255 <--> 14374
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: P & T
I have a large Microwave I ofen boil water in. But a teapot makes
tastier hot water.
Any idea what kind of rice is used for sushi rice?
Msg #14346 Dated 14:07:55 08-14-91
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: NEW THRED
Ee;14256
OK, I have entered a NEW THRED. I know it is easy... I just keep
forgetting how to do things.
Msg #14347 Dated 14:08:02 08-14-91 14257 <--> 14354
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I will tape my lecture for Music City. Sit and watch it with the
audience. Might learn sumpin!
Msg #14348 Dated 14:08:08 08-14-91 14262 <--> 14356
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Pencil paper distracting? You should have been at some of the
early lectures. My notes are chiselled in stone!
Reminds of the great gag in a Mel Brooks film, where he has the
commandments and drops one of the stone tablets... and says, "TEN"
( he had started to say 20 just as he dropped the tablet )....
Veddy Funya...
Msg #14349 Dated 14:08:17 08-14-91 14264 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: FRI LUNCH
Share the joke...
Msg #14350 Dated 14:08:21 08-14-91 14270 <--> 14620
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
I Rhizome another weed?
Msg #14351 Dated 14:08:25 08-14-91 14281 <--> 14353
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Nice list... Duke's Dye Version... can't miss with that. I am not
doing anything with the lists... just trying to get some magic
tlk online... Seeing what othres are doing will help T A to pare
down his act!
Msg #14352 Dated 14:08:32 08-14-91 14291 <--> 14386
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I have two polish pistols... each will hit only himself...
Msg #14353 Dated 14:08:35 08-14-91 14292 <--> 14512
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: LAWYERS
Lasst bumper sticker... SUPPORT MENTAL HEALTH OUR I'LL KILL YOU
Msg #14354 Dated 14:08:39 08-14-91 14300 <--> 14355
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
ok, THAT SAID... WHO HAS SOME RUBBER LIGATURES (?) FOR THE FOLDING
HALF? MINE HAVE TURNED TO DUST... NEED A FEW
Msg #14355 Dated 14:10:49 08-14-91 14313 <--> 14362
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MUSIC CITY CONCLAVE
There is a music publishing firm called _Cross Keys_ which is part
of _Tree International_ which is part of.....
Msg #14356 Dated 14:10:54 08-14-91 14314 <--> 14358
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
If you recall, the first answers we got at DMS were "no" until I
explained the case for video digitization to several of the guys and
they all embraced the idea. The idea would be to always make somethin
positive happen which is good for everyone. Also, I view the midnight
lecture by Max Maven to be quite special and exclusive. The kind of
event where you woulda had to of been there. All in all, the lack of
video in a video age makes an event all the more special. I do feel
that lecturers, if they offer materials, should offer such that the
attendees of said lecture can use them as a blanket reference for
what they saw and heard. I just paid more for one new book than the
cost of attending MCCM (or other) and being able to learn from
magicians of this calibre. I spent much more going to DMS last time
and my trip was "paid for" during a five minute conversation with
Steinmeyer and Gaughan. The rest, hanging out with you, Pete, Burton,
Ron, Dave (The Other One), Burt, et al was the gravy. I really
believe that recording comes under the proprietary rights of the
performer or lecturer and unless video rights have been negotiated
it remains their right. There is so little for an entertainer to
sell, why deprive them of an important aspect or their income. I
am going to capsulize these conversations and alert those involved
of the feelings of lecture goers so they can plan accordingly. I
have every confidence that these men can and will do an excellent
job. Also most will be around for the entire weekend and will
certainly not be put off by questions from the interested.
Msg #14357 Dated 14:11:03 08-14-91 14341 <--> 14449
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: I DON'T THINK I WANT TO S
Pete - Everything arrived OK this time, but check message 14341. I
think you somehow got To/Re/Message all jumbled. Could have been a
bout of the same line noise again.
Msg #14358 Dated 14:14:29 08-14-91 14327 <--> 14359
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Copy proof video is horrible. It is done by some of the major film
folks and it distorts the picture very badly on some sets (we have a
copy protected version of Bambi and the whole top of the screen is
constantly flickering and skewed, no matter what adjustments are made).
It really louses up still and slo-mo functions. And it is easily
defeated! Thus, once again, you keep the customers from getting their
full value and the theives can easily work around it.
Msg #14359 Dated 14:17:46 08-14-91 14342 <--> 14360
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Exactly! Ouellet makes reference to the same phenomena - the audience
applauding before the effect - in the interview you provided.
Certainly television hasn't hurt him!
By the way, my layman neighbor came over last night to ask me a
question. His daughter had seen Copperfield in Vegas over the weekend,
and he wanted to know what an "Illusionist" was. Interesting that
Copperfield's promo material uses the term since, although it is
historic, etc., I think it causes some confusion to laypersons such as
my neighbors.
Msg #14360 Dated 14:21:47 08-14-91 14348 <--> 14361
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Ah ha! So YOU are the chiseler who sat next to me at the old lecture!
Seriously, I'd bet that the old Egyptian magicians banned papyrus and
styli at the lectures. Someone once observed that "if the Egyptians
had invented the computer instead of papyrus and if we'd just invented
paper, there would be computer programs about how to use file cards."
My point is that we should not reject the newer media "just because."
We should think thru ways to make them beneficial to our art.
Msg #14361 Dated 14:28:02 08-14-91 14356 <--> 14387
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
I agree with what you wrote. And yes, there can, and should, be
something special, exclusive, etc. Ron Bieber and his wife (he is
pretty much of a MAGIC! lurker) just had a baby daughter a few weeks
ago. He and I discussed video quite a bit just before that. When
Nathan was born, for example, I felt that the human event was the
important one, not the video event. I saw a lot of new dads who missed
everything because they were living it second hand thru the screen of
the camcorder. I think that their kids first thought was "Oh! S**t!
Dads a CYCLOPS!"
There is a time for media and a time for direct participation. But the
media are very useful in lectures (pen/pencil and paper as well as
audio and video tape) - where one is going in an attempt to walk out
with new information - and my objective is only to get everyone,
presentors and attendees, to think through the process.
As to presentors having so little to sell - I believe Biro has made the
point admirably. Video HELPS to sell, not kill sales.
Msg #14362 Dated 14:34:41 08-14-91 14329 <--> 14363
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I quoted you what was in the front of the Dover book. It "credited"
Jones. Let us know what Jay says, although I have a feeling it will be
something like "Arrgh!"
Msg #14363 Dated 14:36:15 08-14-91 14336 <--> 14364
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Apparently, from what I gather in the frontpieces of the different
books, Dover did not attempt to copyright their edition (at least the
one that I have has no copyright notice). It would appear that the
original Modern Coin Magic is in public domain. That could be why "New
Modern" was done - it was copyrighted in 1966 by Magic, Inc. By the
way, that edition ALSO has a line above the copyright that says
"Copyright July 1952 by Carl W. Jones."
Come to think of it, the release of "New Modern" preceeded the release
of the Dover and was done while "Modern" was still under copyright.
There may be more to this story then has been revealed this morning.
Msg #14364 Dated 14:41:55 08-14-91 14337 <--> 14365
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I'm going to leave the discussion of what should and shouldn't be in a
lecture to you and some others - I'm too busy with the video-note
discussion.
Msg #14365 Dated 14:43:47 08-14-91 14347 <--> 14366
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Actually, Pete, I DO tape every lecture I do! Usually audio tape. And
I DO learn something from almost every one.
Msg #14366 Dated 14:45:14 08-14-91 14355 <--> 14372
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MUSIC CITY CONCLAVE
No resturant named Cross Keys? Shame. They used to make great turkey
croquettes and an incredible chocolate-cherry-date-nut-macaroon pie.
Sure wish I knew where to get turkey croquettes like those! I don't
think anyone even sells turkey croquettes any more.
Msg #14367 Dated 14:47:21 08-14-91 14344 <--> 14379
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RESEARCH
Yes, following the Potter would be one of the considerations. Also the
selection of the appropriate tool - MAGIC-DB, or whatever. I know
someone at Oracle - maybe we look at their database program. It is
compatible across a lot of machines.
Msg #14368 Dated 14:49:56 08-14-91 14338 <--> 14390
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TURTLES
I stated "transposed effects" so as NOT to include the Close Frog. By
the way, where is Mike? He hasn't been around in a few days.
Msg #14369 Dated 14:52:16 08-14-91 14174 <--> 14370
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
In short, "whatever works," and Juan's theory works wonders for him!
'W.
Msg #14370 Dated 14:53:20 08-14-91 14207 <--> 14382
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
Amen, bro.
'W.
Msg #14372 Dated 15:06:29 08-14-91 14214 <--> 14377
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Harumph!
.
.
(This message is a direct reply to message number 14214, from Pete Biro
to Cindy Szerlip with the inapropriate heading of "Roth Review.")
'W.
Msg #14373 Dated 15:14:09 08-14-91 14234 <--> 14380
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
No, that's not Shag....but do tell me about Oliver P. Shagnasty's act!
'W.
Msg #14374 Dated 15:15:36 08-14-91 14208 <--> 14375
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: P & T
We've all been there, Tab.
'W.
Msg #14375 Dated 15:16:57 08-14-91 14231 <--> 14384
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
"hole section on comedy"? I always thought it was "whole."
Biro....you truly are living the life of Riley!
'W.
Msg #14376 Dated 15:18:09 08-14-91 14328 <--> 14434
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: GIANT SILVER HALF DOLLAR
The coins sound cool. I might like to have some Conjurors' Woodworks
coins made in the grand tradition. Sounds a little steep for business
cards though. Don't think I'd want my face on em either. I love
the Roterberg coins. What size are they? etc??
Msg #14377 Dated 15:18:14 08-14-91 14329 <--> 14378
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I'm only sure unless I find out I'm wrong about Jones doing the first
Bobo book.
Msg #14378 Dated 15:18:20 08-14-91 14330 <--> 14389
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Doing the lambada, I'll bet.
Msg #14379 Dated 15:18:23 08-14-91 14331 <--> 14391
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I don't have a copy of the Potter Master Index, but it makes my
mind water every time I run across a reference to it. Compatibility
sure. What does the Potter cover?
Msg #14380 Dated 15:18:30 08-14-91 14332 <--> 14396
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
If you were to make a choice of which author to read first, would
you read Tamariz or Tiong?
Msg #14381 Dated 15:18:34 08-14-91 14333 <--> 14438
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
Yes, I heard that Burtonite The Bizzare bought the island and
has built a dome city there inhabited by the remainder of his
followers having decided to quietly write his memoirs. It appears on
no map.
Msg #14382 Dated 15:18:39 08-14-91 14334 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HARKEY BOOK
That's what I thought I said, but maybe I didn't, but that's what
I meant. Plenty of tricks.
Msg #14383 Dated 15:18:44 08-14-91 14340 <--> 14439
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CLASSIC RENDITIONS
Tell me more about Steen, please.
Msg #14384 Dated 15:18:43 08-14-91 14232 <--> 14385
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
Yowsa!
(Oh...I almost forgot...this is a direct reply to your message to me,
numbered 14232, under the inapropriate heading of "P & T." Hell, I'm
wasting all this time so you can save a few seconds with IMP and leave
the thread retracing responsibility all to me!)
'W.
Msg #14385 Dated 15:21:56 08-14-91 14233 <--> 14388
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
Didn't WHO change his name to Muhommad? I refuse to backtrack threads
unless you do too!
'W.
Msg #14386 Dated 15:24:02 08-14-91 14289 <--> 14471
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Arf!
'W.
Msg #14387 Dated 15:29:14 08-14-91 14361 <--> 14392
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
You are right, video does help sell, but it is still the right of
the individual lecturer to decide. I'm not arguing with the
tchnology. Like all things, greatness must lie in the use not the
existance.
Msg #14388 Dated 15:29:20 08-14-91 14374 <--> 14431
From: TABBY CRABB
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
Yo!
Msg #14389 Dated 17:47:59 08-14-91 14220 <--> 14394
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
In my earlier notes I used to list my books, but it became far too
large and unwieldy a list to continue the practice. Also, quite a few
titles are now out of print.
Msg #14390 Dated 17:49:05 08-14-91 14223 <--> 14430
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TURTLES
No, Carney has not modified a coin trick; he has modified a ball trick.
Msg #14391 Dated 17:49:33 08-14-91 14228 <--> 14436
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RESEARCH
The Potter Index is divided into effect categories (e.g., Ambitious
Card), within which items are listed by author, alphabetically, giving
the trick title, book or magazine title, volume number (for magazines),
and page number, plus date if known (many pamphlets have no such
information). There is some cross-referencing, but it is for categories
not individual items. This is the only way to access information; you
cannot look up a specific author, magazine or time period.
Msg #14392 Dated 17:52:57 08-14-91 14238 <--> 14427
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
You were told wrong. Certainly their appearances on NHK which were
taped abroad have been helpful, but the Napoleons got established via
their work on Fuji TV, most of which was taped domestically.
Msg #14393 Dated 17:55:46 08-14-91 14301 <-
From: MAX MAVEN
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: REST OF #13725
Ah; the complete statement is much better.
Msg #14394 Dated 17:56:21 08-14-91 14354 <--> 14395
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Try finding an orthodontist; they use the same little rubberbands for
braces.
Msg #14395 Dated 17:57:05 08-14-91 14363 <--> 14397
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The situation was that Magic, Inc. did not renew the copyright on the
Bobo book, hence Dover was able to grab it. However, the newer material
from the later edition _was_ covered by copyright, which is why it is
not in the Dover edition. Similar stories account for the Dover
reprints of volume 3 (only) of the James Encyclopedia of Rope Magic,
Annemann's Practical Mental Effects, etc.
While there was strong speculation that Karl Fulves was responsible
for tipping Dover off on the availability of the Bobo book, it has
never been substantiated. Fulves' work as a Dover author does not
constitute proof...
Msg #14396 Dated 17:59:36 08-14-91 14380 <--> 14405
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
First of all, Phoa Yan Tiong's name is in Chinese order; thus, his
surname is Phoa.
Between the two books I'd recommend the Tamariz "Five Points," as it
has wider application. Phoa's work is brilliant, but is focused on
movement, primarily for stage.
Msg #14397 Dated 18:04:55 08-14-91 14118 <--> 14401
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I believe the Dover edition referred to a copy of Bobo -- not Roth's
book. (Though one can never be sure.) If you've got the Dover copy
of Bobo, be aware that you are missing a large amount of material that
was addded when the book was revised in... I'm not sure when,
actually. If this is the case, I advise you to get the hardcover at
once!
Msg #14399 Dated 18:01:00 08-14-91 -> 14407
From: MAX MAVEN
To: SYSOP
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
My comments on videotaping policy have evoked quite a few messages, so
I will begin a new thread to deal with the subject. I've addressed it
to you because your "head in the sand" comment has annoyed me greatly.
Your notion that "media are media" is ridiculous. All forms of media
are not the same; if they were, why would anyone have any interest in
obtaining a new type when it comes out? Video is _very_ different from
note-taking; if it were not, you wouldn't care that I do not allow my
lectures to be tape-recorded. Thus, your equation is pointless.
Several people have made comments which indicate that they think my
anti-taping policy has to do with protecting my financial interests.
That aspect is, for me, of minimal interest. I am interested in
controlling my performance work. Someone who attends my lecture is
paying for the opportunity to experience that work, and learn the
things I have chosen to teach them. No less -- but no more.
I do not have an eidetic memory, nor do I need one to get the necessary
information out of a lecture (provided the lecturer has done his/her
job correctly). If things are carefully explained I should be able to
take the basic notes that will allow me to work with the material
afterwards, and if I want more detail the notes should provide it. The
fact that many lecturers do not live up to these standards may provide
a reason to want to tape them, but it does not apply to me. I have been
lecturing since 1974; when you attend my lecture you will find clarity
and detail of explanation, along with thorough notes. If you are
willing to PAY ATTENTION, you will not require a video of the lecture
to apply the material later.
There was mention by Stan Lake of the situation at the Day of Magic and
other events, where scheduling is such that it is impossible for one
person to see all of the lectures. This is the fault of the organizers,
who have put together a poorly structured event. It is not the
responsibility of the lecturers, and has no bearing on the above.
The idea that has been bandied about of taping an individual lecture
and making it available to the attendees is one that is already in use,
by at least two lecture producers in England (Fergus Roy and Ron
MacMillan). The lecturer is given financial recompense, and it is all
aboveboard. I think it is a fair system for those who wish to
participate; I have rejected it.
I do not care a whit if anyone agrees with my stance on this, because
it eventually comes down to the issue that was discussed recently
concerning inventor's rights: creative control belongs in the hands of
the creator; it's that simple. I do not hide my anti-taping policy. If
a given producer does not want to hire me because of it, or if a
potential attendee elects not to come, that's fine with me. If they
want to participate in my lecture work, however, it is on my terms.
Msg #14400 Dated 19:35:05 08-14-91 -> 14402
From: STAN LAKE
To: ALL
Re: LECTURES
From what I gather so far, most lecturers do not allow videotaping of
their lectures and most have incomplete notes available for purchase.
Max Maven seems to be an exception but I haven't had the privilege of
attending one of his lectures. Seeing as how a lecture costs about the
same as a hardcover book and includes a lot less material, I can not
see why I would want to attend one of these lectures unless I had
already read the book and had specific questions to ask about it.
Since I take lousy notes and have a worse than average memory for these
things I would end up getting less for my money than the person sitting
next to me. Without detailed notes or a video provided by the lecturer
I would lose the benefit of learning the bulk of what the lecturer was
trying to impart.
Unless either my notes or the lecturers notes dramatically improve I no
longer want to pay full price to receive a fraction of the benefits.
Msg #14401 Dated 20:07:33 08-14-91 14354 <--> 14403
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
For rubber ligatures for folding halfs, try Sharon Wasserman, Sasco
Inc., 215-698-2404. I would assume that their folding halfs are the
same basic size as anyone else's.
Msg #14402 Dated 20:08:27 08-14-91 14400 <--> 14446
From: MAX MAVEN
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: LECTURES
A lecture rarely costs anywhere near the price of a hardcover book. In
most cases it is sponsored by a club, in which case the members pay
either nothing or a nominal fee of five or ten dollars; or it is part
of a convention, in which case the fee is contained within the
registration and can be pro rated to something under ten dollars.
Msg #14403 Dated 20:10:24 08-14-91 14395 <--> 14406
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Thanks for the clarification, Max. I realized that Dover did reprints,
I never realized that they did them in quite that manner. Am I correct
that the version that they reprinted is essentially now public domain?
Msg #14405 Dated 20:27:02 08-14-91 14396 <--> 14411
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Thanks. I wish I had _Five Points_ to read on the road tomorrow. I
located a set of Phoa's lecture notes this evening and are having
them sent in so I can perhaps get a taste for his writing.
Msg #14406 Dated 20:27:09 08-14-91 14397 <--> 14413
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I agree with you, Evan. I like the revised Bobo because of the
additional material though there's more than enough in the first
edition. I looked at that big yellow book in Hank Lee's shop so many
times that even after over all these years I always keep it on a
shelf in my office just to remind me of the process it took at the
time to come up with the 20 bucks to get it as I was a coffee house
musician working for a hand out at the time.
Msg #14407 Dated 20:27:17 08-14-91 14399 <--> 14412
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
I have to agree with you, Max. It's a matter of principle with me
also. Additionally, I don't think that any lecture goer expects to
be able to video tape or audio tape as it is forbidden across the
boards in the music industry as well. Recorders are not allowed into
the Grand Ole Opry any more than they are allowed into Carnagie Hall,
or any rock concert. In fact, some concert groups are so strict, that
they disallow still cameras in certain instances. I feel that I have
put an excellent lineup together for MCCM, an event which will be
busy but with no overlapping. No choosing which lecturer to see as
they will be presented sequentially. The event is timed to allow
magicians from 250 miles away to go to work on Friday and still drive
to Music City in time to catch the opening lecture and will end with
an informative (hopefully tasty) brunch. I've had the hotel checkout
time extended to one hour past the last event Sunday so attendants
staying at the hotel won't have to be inconvenienced with keeping
too many balls in the air at once. Time for a shower, check out and
drive back to Atlanta (or wherever) in time for supper. Events are
planned so that everyone will have the opportunity to catch each
speaker and still have some quality time away from the magic - eat,
sleep, hang out. The hotel was chosen because it is a super venue,
good restaurant, comfortable bar, music. I've put a lot of thought
into this from the attendants' point of view. If it proves to be
unsuccessful because I have misjudged the quality expectation of the
magicians in the area, then it rests on my shoulders. So far the
reaction is postitive. Magicians are working clubs and hotels in
Music City and some of them will be waiting for me in Printers Alley
Friday night. These men, heretofore unknown to me and I to them are
excited about the conclave and want to get together to see what they
can do to help. They are already registered five months beforehand
and before any national advertising has appeared. The talk on the
street is in favor of the lineup and that is really all I ask at
this point as a presenter. This discussion has gone around in another
circle. I will continue to believe what I believe, that it is a
matter of individual choice, pure and simple, no big deal. If I was
in it for the money it might be a different story, but money follows
love.
Msg #14411 Dated 21:37:32 08-14-91 14405 <--> 14437
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
The lecture notes contain some excellent magic, notably his wonderful
C&R handkerchief, but they are terse descriptions of effects and do not
exemplify the books.
Msg #14412 Dated 21:40:12 08-14-91 14407 <--> 14420
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
The convention sounds well thought out; I'm looking forward to it.
I have no desire to reintroduce the topic of amateur/professional
distinctions, but it is worth noting that the attitude toward casual
videotaping seems to change radically when the lecturer or performer to
be taped has had formal television experience; it does alter your
perception of the process of committing to tape. I recall, for example,
a recent "Invocational" at which only two performers declined to allow
taping: myself and Jeff McBride.
Msg #14413 Dated 21:42:50 08-14-91 14403 <--> 14414
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I do not know Dover's legal status regarding copyright on these works;
the complications of copyright law are such that they may have gotten
a claim on some works via cowboy-lawyer tactics.
Dover has produced a lot of worthwhile books, both new ones and
reprints of hard-to-get material (e.g., Scot's Discoverie), so I find
it distressing when on occasion they have plundered a work that is
still in print, taking advantage of the lax behavior of some magic
publishers who never got around to properly registering a given tome.
Msg #14414 Dated 21:58:57 08-14-91 14191 <--> 14415
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Thanks! I'll call him tonite!
Msg #14415 Dated 21:59:27 08-14-91 14192 <--> 14417
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
OK, that's an AM call
Msg #14417 Dated 22:02:06 08-14-91 14212 <--> 14418
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I see the immediate gratification attitude a lot in my business these
days, too. I do taxes ( and anything else that borders on accounting)
- these people not only want their processed, proofread returns the day
they come in, but they want their refunds immediately! This electronic
filing is a great gimmick to play on that - for the sake of immediate
gratification, these folks are wiling to pay fees that constitute 85%
interest (APR) on their refunds!
But, yeah, I want to do it all by tomorrow.
Msg #14418 Dated 22:05:29 08-14-91 14215 <--> 14419
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I've also heard a lot about Al Schneider on coins. Right now, I'm
suffering from information overload. I'm going through Bobo, while
waiting for Stars of Magic, reviewing Hugard and checking through a
book called _Coinjuring_ by David Neighbors.
Msg #14419 Dated 22:08:18 08-14-91 14397 <--> 14422
From: CINDY SZERLIP
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I've got the Magic Inc hardcover edition. Bought it about fifteen years
ago and, luckily, couldn't bear to part with it!
Msg #14420 Dated 22:03:15 08-14-91 14399 <--> 14421
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
Max -
I would agree that you seem to be one of the leading proponents of the
"no tape" school. But I do not feel that the "heads in the sand"
statement was directed at you personally. As found in message 14257,
the complete statement read "It is time _we_ [emphasis added here]
started THINKING about this technology and about how to make it
worthwhile to all concerned, rather than attempting to bury _our_ heads
in the sand with a "no tape" policy." I was referring to magic
lecturers in the generic sense along with those who book lectures,
those who attend lectures, etc. I would assume, as you partially
expressed in your message, that your policy is, as most of your other
positions are, reasoned out based on your own principles.
In messages 14209 and 14257, as in others on this topic, I have made it
very clear that the presentor/creator has the ultimate right to decide
any issues related to their lecture or performance (assuming, of
course, that such rights do not violate law or cause direct harm to the
attendees and that the "rules" are clear in advance).
I do not think the the entire body of today's discussion was directed
at you or your policy. Rather it was directed at those who do not have
a reasoned approach but who insist on "no tape" out of some amorphous
fear. Frankly, I would like to see as many lecturers as possible adopt
the policy of permitting video-notes. I believe that it would be a
win-win situation and I believe it would overcome many of the lecture
problems that you identified in your message.
Msg #14421 Dated 22:18:02 08-14-91 14407 <--> 14426
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
Tabby -
The Grand Ole Opry and Carnegie Hall are performance venues, not
lecture ones. Their rules and regulations are controlled by Unions,
not only be performers.
Msg #14422 Dated 22:22:04 08-14-91 14413 <--> 14425
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
There appears to be no copyright notice in the Dover edition. The
plundering of lapsed copyrights is a very popular sport.
Msg #14425 Dated 22:42:28 08-14-91 14418 <--> 14429
From: PETE BIRO
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Al Schneider is generally credited with the popularization of the
Matrix coin routine. (I am sure someone will come on soon and correct
me) -- But Al has made some good contributions. Don't get too
overloaded, just work on a couple of items for now. Adios....
Msg #14426 Dated 22:44:32 08-14-91 14421 <--> 14459
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
You don't think 90-=percent of lectures aren't mereley PERFORMANCES?
It is just another venue for the mojo men to make money.
Msg #14427 Dated 22:45:24 08-14-91 14314 <--> 14444
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
I plan to lecture on Guitar and Accordian technique at the Music
City conclave. Bring you picks.
Msg #14428 Dated 22:45:29 08-14-91 14322 <--> 14530
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
My Karate Chop looks like I am weaving!
Msg #14429 Dated 22:45:33 08-14-91 14366 <--> 14435
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MUSIC CITY CONCLAVE
I thought you were loyal to Crab Cakes! Shame....
Msg #14430 Dated 22:45:38 08-14-91 14368 <--> 14442
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TURTLES
Mike is busy working shows...
Msg #14431 Dated 22:45:42 08-14-91 14374 <--> 14432
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
OOOOps, hand resting on space bar so this reply is to wrong message,
but it is, er was... BOLIVER on Oliver P. Shagnasty. I forget who
did the bit, mita been Red Skeltlon...?
Msg #14432 Dated 22:45:47 08-14-91 14375 <--> 14433
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
Just don't tell Riley!
Msg #14433 Dated 22:45:51 08-14-91 14375 <--> 14440
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
Hey, I had a double truck ad in Sports Illustrated last week, but
will not get paid for it. Don't ask why.
Msg #14434 Dated 22:45:56 08-14-91 14376 <--> 14494
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: GIANT SILVER HALF DOLLAR
The coins can be either 1.25 (half dollar) or 1.5 (Silver Dollar)
in size. Anything you want. Tabman wood table you name it.
They will be dark bronze of off silverish.... Can maybe get sample
of metal in another format if you need to see sumpin!
Msg #14435 Dated 22:46:03 08-14-91 14377 <--> 14447
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
When I see Jay Marshall next mondy will check out the facts.
Msg #14436 Dated 22:46:07 08-14-91 14379 <--> 14443
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I don't know in detail, just that when working on lookin up stuff
on the Lincoln Rings, at By Walkers, we found all all the references
you could want!
Msg #14437 Dated 22:46:13 08-14-91 14380 <--> 14445
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Phoa has a different tack, relating a magic act to the four seasons
whereas Juan goes into the theory of NO EXPLANATION.... I would
definitely read one before the other... but which one??? I dunno.
Both are great.
Msg #14438 Dated 22:46:20 08-14-91 14381 <--> 14535
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: YOUR WIRE
NO MAP, but the transponder keeps track of the Bizzarini via
Satellite....
Msg #14439 Dated 22:46:24 08-14-91 14383 <--> 14496
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CLASSIC RENDITIONS
I don't know much about Steen, just a few items I had ( a holdout )
were top notch workmanship.
Msg #14440 Dated 22:46:29 08-14-91 14384 <--> 14441
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
P & T reminds me of the calesthenics we had to do in the army
every morning. PT = Physical Training. YOu forget the thread entry
nobody changes em no mo... ho... yo... mo.... no.... whoa....
Msg #14441 Dated 22:46:35 08-14-91 14385 <--> 14470
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: P & T
Muhammad Schwartz, whom else....
Ken Brooke used to have a picture in his home of the "what me
Worry Guy..." with "CHANNING SCHWARTZ" autograph upon it... har.
Msg #14442 Dated 22:46:41 08-14-91 14390 <--> 14538
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: TURTLES
Thanks, nonetheless, it is a very good variant, or modification...
had he had a hair more magical content in his FISM act he probably
would have taken first....
Msg #14443 Dated 22:46:47 08-14-91 14391 <--> 14617
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: RESEARCH
I am sure the techies of today can come up with a compatible
format... I sure hope so.... Thanks.... later....
Msg #14444 Dated 22:46:52 08-14-91 14392 <--> 14450
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Either way, I am glad... the guys are terrific and deserve any
fame, money, etc. they are able to garner. And they are nice people
too. Thanks for the info., I knew you would know.
Msg #14445 Dated 22:46:57 08-14-91 14396 <--> 14453
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Both Phoa and Tamariz cover ground that most authors have not. And
both offer much worthy of considerable study.
I understand Phoa has had some health problems. I am sending him
a letter to see how he is doing and what he has been up to since
I last visited him.
Msg #14446 Dated 22:47:06 08-14-91 14400 <--> 14507
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: LECTURES
My experience is that about 75-percent of those attending a lecture
are not interested in LEARNING how do do anything. They wish to
learn the secrets of the tricks and the fifty-five other uses for
a dove pan. A great percentage of lectures are merely SHOWS and
an excuse to sell flap cards, string gaffs, invisible thread and
NOTES. Remember they are NOTES... not a book.
Tell me these days, how much is a good dinner and a live show going
to cost you? A lecture, if no more than a show and a night out
is a bargain... if you learn ONE thing you are ahead of the game.
And (MY OPINION) YOU SHOULD NOT TAKE PATTER, STYLE, PRESENTATION
from any lecture... that still belongs to the person doing the
performance -- my opionion, remember.... -- You should attend to
see what is being done, how it is done and try to add to your
basic knowledge and GROW upon the ideas presented.
Msg #14447 Dated 22:47:22 08-14-91 14401 <--> 14456
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Tanks, will give SASCO a shout....
Msg #14448 Dated 22:47:25 08-14-91
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: PHOA
Ee;14411
Had to change the thread from Abbotts - day 4 (proving I can do it
with IMP>>>>) re: Phoa, yep the notes are no means anything like
Seasons. Have YOU HEARD anything about Nr. 2? I never did ask
him why he went from Nr. 1 to Nr. 3. I will in my next correspondence
Msg #14449 Dated 22:47:35 08-14-91 14341 <--> 14743
From: PETE BIRO
To: PETE BIRO
Re: I DON'T THINK I WANT TO S
Original message 14341 was screwed up by line noise. I should refer
to: AT FISM a contestant in close up did a Matrix routine with
flaming coins. They were ON FIRE... Stevens is going to be the
USA dealer for 'em... actually it was more like a chink a chink,
now that I reconstruct it in my feeble mind.... Whatever, it was
very very good.
Msg #14450 Dated 22:47:43 08-14-91 14359 <--> 14451
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Let 'em be confused.. at least they bought tickets to see a magic
show, and I am sure felt good about it. I hope David is still
at Caesars next Monday when I hit the Desert community. I couldn't
get ahold of him when I was there last week.
Msg #14451 Dated 22:47:50 08-14-91 14360 <--> 14452
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Do you ever get the feeling we are taking ourselves to seriousy?
Sure, its Federal Express and FAX machines that are at fault. Not
to mention MTV.
We need to lighten up. Smell the roses. ARgh....
Msg #14452 Dated 23:02:26 08-14-91 14450 <--> 14460
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Copperfield has moved over to Caesars Tahoe.
Msg #14453 Dated 23:04:07 08-14-91 14445 <--> 14495
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Phoa has had serious health problems for over four years. The last I
knew, he was doing very limited performing. I would hope this situation
has changed; let me know if you find out.
Msg #14456 Dated 23:07:06 08-14-91 14429 <--> 14465
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MUSIC CITY CONCLAVE
Yes, I'm loyal to Crab Cakes in Maryland. But Nashville is not a major
site for fresh crab. Those turkey croquettes with white sauce and the
chocolate-cherry-date-nut-macaroon pie were really something! Alas,
both are apparently long gone.
Msg #14458 Dated 23:08:51 08-14-91 -> 14490
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: JAPAN
Thanks for the answer to the question regarding minorities in Japan.
The question came up when I was watching a PBS show about Kitaro. I
noticed the Americans with him in Japan were the only non-Japanese
(perhaps non-orientals) I saw in the crowd scenes. I would have asked
Richard Hatch's wife as she's half Japanese, but as it just so
happened, she was in Japan at the time with the Houston Symphony.
Anyway, I'm starting to learn what I can in preparation for FISM!
Thanks.
Charlie
Msg #14459 Dated 23:08:59 08-14-91 14426 <--> 14474
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
In theory a lecture is designed to impart knowledge to the attendees.
Most do a fair to middlin' job of it. They may be another venue for
mojo money (may be? OF COURSE THEY ARE) but are supposed to transfer
information as well. If they turn into pure performance, then it is
likely that the lecture circuit will die out.
Msg #14460 Dated 23:11:44 08-14-91 14427 <--> 14461
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
I rather like accordian music. I think the accordian is a splendid
instrument. Lately though, I've been listening to Celtic harp.
Msg #14461 Dated 23:13:41 08-14-91 14450 <--> 14463
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
My neighbor's daughter bought a ticket to see Copperfield. Her parents
were apparently very impressed with her description of the performance
and now they too want to attend.
Msg #14462 Dated 23:16:12 08-14-91 -> 14547
From: TOMMY WONDER
To: ALL
Re: VCR ALERT
John and Pam Thompson will appear at around 12 oclock on ABC's program
Into the Night. So watch it!
Msg #14463 Dated 23:15:42 08-14-91 14451 <--> 14473
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
I've been in agreement with "lighten up, smell the roses" for several
years now. It explains why I'm financially poor. Yes, I DO think our
society needs to lighten up! As a matter of fact, I think that MAGIC
(the art/craft, not the communications system) is the IDEAL form of
entertainment for an up-tight high-tech stressed-out age. Now, if we
could just figure out how to impress the public, I think we would all
have money to burn.
Msg #14465 Dated 23:31:12 08-14-91 14394 <--> 14466
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
AND the piece of rubber for that great coin penetration is in fact,
dental dam (sp.) My Dad is a dentist, so I had a guaranteed supply of
parts on these two effects!
Msg #14466 Dated 23:32:27 08-14-91 14395 <--> 14467
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Can you, to your knowledge, renew the copyright at any time, or is
there a period in which the original holder has to renew, beyond which
the work becomes public domain?
Msg #14467 Dated 23:34:15 08-14-91 14406 <--> 14468
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The very SIZE of the thing is utterly intimidating. Can't lay claim to
having digested the whole book. Like to say I did... maybe one day.
Msg #14468 Dated 23:35:07 08-14-91 14413 <--> 14469
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The same lax behavior was exhibited (sort of) recently by a film
company, people usually good at this sort of thing. The company in
question (I forget which, think it was RKO), forgot to renew the
copyright on the post-war classic "The Third Man." It is now public
domain.
Msg #14469 Dated 23:37:48 08-14-91 14418 <--> 14480
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
You're going to be reading "Stars of Magic" for the first time? I'm
jealous.
Msg #14470 Dated 23:50:00 08-14-91 14098 <--> 14484
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: P & T
Yeah, there are no rules -- but the Diceman's career is supposed to be
flagging. I don't know, I still think he's filling concert halls.
Perhaps a more refined rule would be the negativity CEILING -- it's
only possible to go so far with this approach. The Diceman hit a wall
when it came to his movie career.
Msg #14471 Dated 23:51:54 08-14-91 14296 <--> 14483
From: EVAN KATZ
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
Didn't think you were using in that way, Bill. Only pointing out that
the word, like all classifications, is ripe for misuse and abuse.,
Msg #14473 Dated 0:05:37 08-15-91 14188 <--> 14475
From: T A WATERS
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
What they are paying for is the lecture experience; it is the
lecturer's duty to explain and teach the effect within that parameter,
and beyond that we are talking about a different situation. If a
person can't learn enough from hearing the lecture once and perhaps
reading the notes, lectures are probably not a wise investment for them
-- but they are getting what they pay for. If they want something else
or more -- such as private lessons or limited small group sessions --
that's a different thing, as would be the fee they pay.
Msg #14474 Dated 23:58:00 08-14-91 14407 <--> 14487
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
Your comparisons with taping music vs magic
seems obvious. While many are quick to compare
the two art forms in other aspects recording
seems to be overlooked. I have often wondered
or should I say asked why the Castle doesn't
tape lectures for the archives. To be locked
away for twenty years and the reply is that if
the artist wants his lecture taped he will do
it himself and sell copies himself. The obvious
should be a yes or no. if you can't take notes
seems no excuse. What if the lecture is really
lousy? for generations the masses, yes masses,
will see this and make judgements from it as
The best is when Frank Zappa catches a guy
taping one of his shows. He STOPS in the
middle, sends the bouncers out to get the tape,
and kicks the guy out. It's his choice and I
would hope Max would do the same. If the castle
lectures were available on video, guaranteed
when the lecturer comes around again it would
have a large impact on attendance. Maybe more
but I've been told that it's considerably less.
Msg #14475 Dated 0:10:14 08-15-91 14244 <--> 14476
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Most of the nonmagic seminars and such I am familiar with have deals to
sell cassette tapes and videos of the lecture -- but they're a helluva
lot more expensive than $10 or so.
Msg #14476 Dated 0:12:12 08-15-91 14262 <--> 14477
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
See my earlier comment -- if you can't benefit from a lecture under the
conditions laid down by the lecturer, don't go.
Msg #14477 Dated 0:13:24 08-15-91 14314 <--> 14508
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LECTURACOL
Given the rather extensive history in magic of plagiarism, copyng, and
outright thievery -- long before the blessings of video -- I have a
much less benign view of this situation than you appear to.
Msg #14480 Dated 0:21:31 08-15-91 14218 <--> 14482
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
If you want to Reply to the person the msg is From use R for reply.
If you want to Reply to the person the msg is To use A for append.
.
MAGIC! will direct them correctly. This is a Reply to Pete, if I
wanted to direct it to David (msg 14218 was From Pete to David) I
would have used Append.
.
You can always use both methods to same msg on your screen, which
lets you enter 2 msgs.
.
And yes it will always be public, if you want it to be private, use
E to enter a msg to whom ever you want.
Msg #14481 Dated 0:21:46 08-15-91 14115 <--> 14555
From: JERRY BURTON
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PROFESSOR EL-TAB
I used to go to school with a guy named Yrrej Notrub the Erazzib.
Msg #14482 Dated 0:22:57 08-15-91 14257 <--> 14486
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I am a bit puzzled about your earlier comment about no taping making
the pirate stuff more valuable; if there is no existing tape, then what
precisely is the pirate selling? It is possible to surreptitiously
tape B'way shows, and has been done -- although they are damn near
incomprehensible in that form -- but my feeling is that if someone were
videotaping a lecture of mine, I'd be very surprised if the action was
not noted by me -- and acted upon.
Msg #14483 Dated 0:42:45 08-15-91 14298 <--> 14517
From: T A WATERS
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: CONTEST.TXT
I think he may have meant that learning to use a tool well can be an
art, certainly, but in magic it is not the end -- because magic is a
PERFORMING art, and the techniques in and of themselves, when
performed, are not magic. Perhaps the difference between a
choreography sequence perfectly learned and an acrobatic dance sequence
performed.
Or may be he meant something else....:-)
Msg #14484 Dated 2:02:57 08-15-91 14432 <--> 14485
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
Yes, but Riley's WIFE deserves an explanation!
'W.
Msg #14485 Dated 2:04:46 08-15-91 14441 <--> 14533
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: P & T
You mean Alfred E. Neuman? MY HERO!!!
'W.
Msg #14486 Dated 2:07:27 08-15-91 14419 <--> 14489
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: CINDY SZERLIP (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
INTRODUCTION TO COIN MAGIC by Futigawa should not be overlooked.
'W.
Msg #14487 Dated 2:13:54 08-15-91 14420 <--> 14493
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
Boy, do I disagree!!!
I'd better just leave it at that.
'W.
Msg #14489 Dated 2:17:16 08-15-91 14468 <--> 14491
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
This is an old and common story...how about the original D.O.A.? TIL
THE CLOUDS ROLL BY? SEVERAL THREE STOOGES SHORTS which Columbia
allowed to pass into Public Domain.....the list is a long one.
Msg #14490 Dated 2:18:27 08-15-91 14458 <--> 14545
From: MAX MAVEN
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: JAPAN
The ethnic distribution of a given crowd in Japan depends entirely on
the location and context. Walk around the Ginza or Harajuku districts
of Tokyo and you'll see a wide diversity. Go to the resort town of
Atami -- which is not that far from Tokyo -- and you'll encounter very
few non-Japanese, perhaps none at all. And so on.
Msg #14491 Dated 2:23:36 08-15-91 14489 <--> 14492
From: MAX MAVEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
The most famous example is the classic "It's a Wonderful Life." Ever
wonder why it airs on almost every local station during the xmas
season -- sometimes as many as six or more times in a single market?
It's because someone forgot to file a copyright renewal when the time
came (which, by the way, would have cost $1.50), so it is in the public
domain, and therefore every local TV station has their own copy, with
which they can fill two hours of commercial-sponsored airtime without
spending anything. It's also the reason that title, as others which are
similarly up for grabs, is available on videotape from almost a dozen
different production companies.
Msg #14492 Dated 2:26:45 08-15-91 14466 <--> 14498
From: MAX MAVEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
You're asking the wrong person. The situation is, at least vaguely, as
you describe, but my knowledge of the details of copyright law is
limited to the bare minimum I need to know.
Msg #14493 Dated 2:28:01 08-15-91 14459 <--> 14499
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
Ha. If the vitality of the lecture circuit were dependent upon quality
it would've died out a long time ago. The lecture circuit thrives
because there is a large body of club members who get tired of watching
each other recycle the same tricks, and thus demand an influx of new
"secrets" to play with.
I must add that my use of the term "new" in the above paragraph is as
in the expression, "anything you haven't seen is new" -- which might in
this case be extended to "anything you can't remember having seen is
new."
Msg #14494 Dated 4:20:58 08-15-91 14434 <--> 14557
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: GIANT SILVER HALF DOLLAR
Hmmmm! Sounds good. Which looks better? The dark bronze or the
silverfish? My biggest problem is art work which I'm lousy at. Wood
want them to be cool. Lets see, the copyright on the Roterberg coins
is up, maybe call myself Tabberg Roterman. On way to Tennessee in a f
ew and will type at you in a few days when I get back. Wish us luck.
MCA guys real happy with BP so far and want to talk business when I
get there. Could it be?
Msg #14495 Dated 4:21:07 08-15-91 14437 <--> 14543
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Looks like Tamariz work is more available. There's a mojo shop in
Knoxville. I'll check to see if they have _Five Points_ in about
eight hours when we come out of the mountains.
Msg #14496 Dated 4:21:12 08-15-91 14439 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CLASSIC RENDITIONS
Tells me that these table stands are "works of art" and I gotta see
so he's shipping em to me. These two Conradi stands made in 1910-19
are simple (which I like) but simply beautiful work. Extremely fine
threading, the works. I'm beginning to relate to King Midas as almost
everything I touches turns into a table.
Msg #14498 Dated 4:21:23 08-15-91 14466 <--> 14513
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Copyright is renewable during the last year of the first term. Not
before, not after.
Msg #14499 Dated 4:21:29 08-15-91 14474 <--> 14500
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
I'm starting to think that the vid/magic issue can relate to slam
dancing and stage diving as well. Some things should be special,
and magic is one of them.
=== END OF MAGIC-49 ===
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