MAGIC! - 57
The following was compiled from the magician's message section of
MAGIC!(tm). MAGIC! is an electronic communications system for
magicians. It may be accessed from any personal computer with a
modem by dialing US 818-896-7450. Access is free, except for
normal telephone company charges. New registrants must leave a
comment with their name, address, phone number and a brief resume
of their magic background to be considered for membership. The
material herein should be treated as confidentially as other
magic information. Copyright 1991 by MAGIC!, All rights reserved.
(Note: Message #18000 was personal and does not appear here).
Msg #18001 Dated 15:22:45 09-07-91 -> 18002
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: FLASHING FINGERTIPS
I do believe I'll be there. You?
Msg #18002 Dated 15:23:01 09-07-91 -> 18003
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: FLASHING FINGERTIPS
I'm pretty sure I'm going to get to DSM. Sounds like fun, don't it?
Msg #18003 Dated 16:26:40 09-07-91 18001 <--> 18004
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: FLASHING FINGERTIPS
I sure hope so, Evan. I had a super time last year and even won some
money at the tables.
Msg #18004 Dated 17:40:18 09-07-91 18002 <--> 18253
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: FLASHING FINGERTIPS
Yes, DMS, I think, is a lot of fun - and a chance for MAGIC! members to
get together. We will be holding the Second Annual MAGIC! Meeting at
DMS. I'd suggest that you contact Joe Stevens EARLY for reservations
since seating at the shows is by reservation order.
Msg #18005 Dated 19:00:47 09-07-91 -> 18026
From: EVAN KATZ
To: ALL
Re: BANNON BOOK
Anyone have a release date on the new John Bannon book, "Smoke and
Mirrors," to be published by Kaufman and Greenberg?
Msg #18006 Dated 21:16:01 09-07-91 -> 18007
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: LOST AND FOUND
I've lost a small plastic cigarette lighter somewhere in the vicinity
of MAGIC! If anyone comes across it, I'd appreciate them sending it
back.
Msg #18007 Dated 21:17:49 09-07-91 18006 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: LOST AND FOUND
NO.
Msg #18010 Dated 21:18:12 09-07-91 -> 18020
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
JUST TELL THE CARNOLIGIST WHAT I SAY...OK?
Msg #18012 Dated 21:18:20 09-07-91 -> 18046
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
You hit it... a new answer... great. Funnyhow the younger dudes
know the line with the Frankenstein punch, not the dusting powder.
Msg #18015 Dated 21:36:01 09-07-91 -> 18023
From: STEVE BRYANT
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: LECTURES
Max,
Just got back on the board after a brief absence, and
am still several thousand messages behind. Found your
msg 14609 re the Hindu shuffle force of interest during
this catching up process. The lecturer in question
didn't _necessarily_ steal the force from you. I've
been doing the force that way for at least 23 years and
have never seen it in print, nor have I ever seen any
other magician do it that way, for that matter. It
never seemed that big a deal to me to have developed it
also -- it just seemed to me that any magician with any
brains would do it that way. I am always rather
astonished when they don't. Anyway -- the point is not
to challenge your having got it into print first, just
that this is one of those things that others may have
independently thought of. Indeed, they all should have
thought of it, if they were doing the force at all.
Jay Marshall, I believe, does a great imitation of
magicians who do the force wrong.
-- Steve
Msg #18017 Dated 21:45:03 09-07-91 -> 18022
From: T A WATERS
To: ALL
Re: CRUISING DOWN
In the Sunday LA Times Travel section they talk about aspects of cruis
ship travel; under the Entertainment section we get:
"At night it becomes Broadway or Las Vegas with musical
extravaganzas or, all too often, the last refuge of magicians, jugglers
and ventriloquists from the Ed Sullivan show."
Just wanted to brighten everyone's evening...
Msg #18020 Dated 22:35:11 09-07-91 18010 <--> 18028
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
OK, will pass the word on to him - will tell him what Biro thinks of
book - will then duck.
Msg #18022 Dated 22:41:47 09-07-91 18017 <--> 18030
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: CRUISING DOWN
Uh, yeah, thanks for that brightener. Did the writer also notice that
most of the guests on the cruise ships had, at one time or another,
probably been in the Ed Sullivan audience?
Msg #18023 Dated 23:5:10 09-07-9 18015 <-
From: MAX MAVEN
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: LECTURES
I've never presumed that I am the only one to have thought of this
work, but until I put it into print (and I'd developed it many years
prior to that) it was not "around." Since that publication, it has
spread, and I'd say the odds are highly in favor of my being the source
of that person's use of the idea.
Msg #18026 Dated 6:42:15 09-08-91 18005 <--> 18035
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BANNON BOOK
I thought it was already out.
Msg #18028 Dated 6:42:27 09-08-91 18020 <--> 18032
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I thought Biro LOVED the book.
Msg #18030 Dated 8:06:56 09-08-91 18017 <--> 18034
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: CRUISING DOWN
Nothing wrong with being the LAST REFUGE if the pay is good!!!
You have to take in the record/style, etc. of THE REVIEWER....
Msg #18032 Dated 8:07:08 09-08-91 18020 <--> 18036
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
YOU MISSUNDERSTOOD. YOU TEAR OUT THE FIRST TWENTY PAGES AND KEEP.
IT IS THE BEST 20 PAGES WRITTEN ON MAGIC SINCE 1890.
MEBBE I SHUDDA SED TEAR OUT ALL PAST THE FIRST CHAPTER....
IT IS A KILLER BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK. I got you number from prior
msg.. tanks...
Msg #18034 Dated 8:07:29 09-08-91 18022 <--> 18040
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: CRUISING DOWN
The Ed Sullivan RADIO SHOW, no less!
Msg #18035 Dated 8:07:33 09-08-91 18026 <--> 18050
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BANNON BOOK
I don't know if it is out. But if it is, it is in.
Msg #18036 Dated 8:07:37 09-08-91 18028 <--> 18037
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I love all books.
Msg #18037 Dated 10:09:21 09-08-91 18028 <--> 18038
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I thought Biro said keep the opening essay, skip the book? Or was he
saying to keep only the first chapter of Scott's Discovery of
Witchcraft?
Msg #18038 Dated 10:10:46 09-08-91 18032 <--> 18043
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
OK, OK, will only tell him that you raved about the first 20 pages.
Msg #18040 Dated 10:16:10 09-08-91 18034 <--> 19962
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CRUISING DOWN
I was thinking of that - some of the people on cruises RETIRED before
they were watching the Sullivan show!
Msg #18043 Dated 10:53:59 09-08-91 18036 <--> 18044
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I love all books too. We started packing the books on the fourth
floor today. Don't think you made it up there. I found some old
calvary swords. Do you need a sabre for the Juggler's Castle? We
could open a curio shop at a flea market.
Msg #18044 Dated 10:54:05 09-08-91 18037 <--> 18047
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
He said the first 20 pages is best stuff written in a long time. I
think he was implying you should keep the first 20 pages in your
pocket til you hadem memorized. If you throw the rest of the book
away throw it to me, just try not to tear the binding.
Msg #18046 Dated 11:44:44 09-08-91 18012 <--> 18072
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
Yeah...er....y'say YOUNGER dudes know only the Frankenstein punch? Of
course, that's the punchline *I* know.....I only READ about the dusting
powder thing....in one of my grandfather's books, I
think.....yeah......ahem....that's it.....by the way....what IS dusting
powder, anyway?
'Wayne.
Msg #18047 Dated 11:49:46 09-08-91 18032 <--> 18055
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I'm in total agreement about the intro to Carney's book. That's the
kind of thinking that has obviously made John so impressive in
performance....that kind of thinking and a lot of diligent, hard work.
'W.
Msg #18050 Dated 13:01:20 09-08-91 18026 <--> 18053
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BANNON BOOK
I got the advertisement from Kaufman on Th or Fr -- usually these come
out from two weeks to five before pub, but not always.
Msg #18051 Dated 13:46:39 09-08-91 -> 18065
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TONIGHT II
Yes, I juggle! I'm up to five now.
Speaking of great juggling stories, here's one for you..
Some years ago, some guy was buying some juggling clubs. A local (but
traveling) magi name Tex Walker (The Wacko from Waco) told the guy that
he used to do a little club juggling, and asked to try the clubs. He
juggled the clubs a bit, the shouted "1....2....3...here fred!" and
tossed the clubs into the back room of the store. He then turned to the
club purchaser and said "You know, it just isn't the same without
Fred." This happened, by the way, at Cal. Magic & Novelty, a local
magic store.
Msg #18053 Dated 14:02:58 09-08-91 18050 <--> 18075
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BANNON BOOK
Kaufman mailed those flyers from Silver Spring, MD, just 50 miles
from here and you got it a day or two BEFORE I did. The mail
service here is TERRIBLE. Sheeeesh. Bannon is lecturing at
Berry's Magic Shop a few miles from here on Monday night. Rudy,
my neighbor, is going up and will let us know if they have the
book at the lecture. I'd imagine that Mr. Kaufman will be there
too since I guess Bannon is out promoting the book.
Msg #18054 Dated 14:04:40 09-08-91 -> 18059
From: MIKE KING
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HI THERE!!
Have not heard anything in awhile from your end, so thought I would
check in. Did you recieve the package I sent you? If so, whatcha
think? If not, well knowing the U.S. Mail you should have it by
Christmas. Working daily on the act, making much progress. Think
maybe i am honing in a feel I like. A good mix of magic, comedy and
action. I wil send along the new script soon. Guess that is about
all. Talk at ya later. MIKE.
Msg #18055 Dated 14:19:32 09-08-91 18044 <--> 18060
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Well, maybe I'll look the book over and see. Will let you know what I
figure out - I'm off the the lecture now.
Msg #18059 Dated 16:04:58 09-08-91 18054 <--> 18067
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: HI THERE!!
Mike, So. MD has the slowest mail system in the USA. I ain't seen
nuttin yet, but will holler when I do. Having a heck of a day. Broke
bolt on saw arbor, shaper table is shooting wood out the end (at
high speed), and mini saw is smoking. When we sell this here place
gonna upgrade all tools. Halleluah!! Looking 4ward to see how the
act is coming along. Have a goodun....
Msg #18060 Dated 16:05:05 09-08-91 18055 <--> 18069
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Looking forward to the first official LECTURE REVIEW when you all
getz back.
Msg #18065 Dated 19:57:54 09-08-91 18051 <--> 18074
From: MAX MAVEN
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: TONIGHT II
Yeah, except the gag is Mark Kornhauser's.
Msg #18067 Dated 20:33:11 09-08-91 18059 <--> 18105
From: MIKE KING
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HI THERE!!
Sounds like you are having a goo...uh..bad one. Well like you said a
good reason to upgrade. As stated before things are coming along well.
I will have the new script for the act done by mid-week. Will send it
along. Shrinking things abit and hope the new scope will be faster and
cheaper to build as well as easy to ship/move about. Making things big
playing on stage and small packing. I do not know why in Gods green
earth I had to be bitten by the illusion bug. But it bit me good. I
could have been a mentalist...I know I could have.....oh well. Guess
I}ll just start small and build bigger as the act grows.
Msg #18069 Dated 20:41:55 09-08-91 18037 <--> 18091
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Keep 'em both if you gottem...Lemme know whatcha think of the
first para of the Carney book!!!!! If yu din't likeit you are out!
Msg #18072 Dated 20:42:11 09-08-91 18046 <--> 18099
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
Dusting powder? You put it between the cheeks of your A** to kill
the sweat hurt... Wish I could remember the orignal. For some
reason I recall it on a Jack Benny radio show... Altho it reeks
of Franklin Pangborn... the perrenial floor walker....
Msg #18074 Dated 20:42:22 09-08-91 18051 <--> 18077
From: PETE BIRO
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: TONIGHT II
Good stuff... I used to do a funny 3 ball routine, some plate
spinning on a mouthstick... then my closer was a routine with three
spools... very similar to the Cigar Boxes... Bad back, arthritis
and whatever haV% ept me out of doing what I want with my jugglin'
Msg #18075 Dated 20:42:32 09-08-91 18053 <--> 18107
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BANNON BOOK
Sho' hope our guys out there will REVIEW the lectures!!! Or they
deserve to die or stop complaining!
Msg #18077 Dated 20:42:40 09-08-91 18065 <--> 18089
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: TONIGHT II
What gag is Kornhouser's? Missed the early query? Jus' like to know.
Msg #18078 Dated 20:42:50 09-08-91 -> 18108
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: REVIEW
Hey youse guys... ain't nobody gonna review the Carney lecture? boooo.
I ill check in again befo' I climb between the lilly whites...
Msg #18089 Dated 23:18:57 09-08-91 18077 <--> 18113
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TONIGHT II
The missing juggling team-mate; so far as I know, Mark was the first to
do it, going back quite a few years.
Msg #18091 Dated 23:25:07 09-08-91 18032 <--> 18102
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I told John what you said about his book. He thanks you for your
kind words. There is some pretty good material in the rest of the
book as well. I love his pinkie move to get a coin out of bottle. It
should really solve the problem of breaking rubber bands. He's added
another improvement in the handling of the penetration, since I saw
him at IBM. The guy is constantly improvising and making things
simpler and more natural.
Msg #18093 Dated 0:06:30 09-09-91 -> 18100
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: NEW GENII
Wayne, I think your idea would be the most
logical. If you wouldn't mind, we'd surely
appreciate it.
with thanks, Dante.
Msg #18094 Dated 23:21:48 09-08-91 -> 18095
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
I have no idea why it falls to your humble and self-effacing Sysop to
attempt this review, since several of the other MAGIC! members who were
at John Carney's lecture today at the Magic Castle have logged on and
left nary a word, but here goes -
The Parlour at the Castle was jammed for Carney's lecture, with members
sitting in the aisles and practically stacked one on top another.
Carney was festively attired in a sports jacket, a sort of colorful
50's wide tie and jeans. He provided a slightly different format from
the usual do-a-show-then-talk-about-it in that he interspersed theory
with performance and lecture. Each effect was presented individually
and was followed by an expination and his view of the theoretical
underpinnings.
It was very interesting, to me, to note that each effect got great
applause, but that, in each case, the explainations got GREATER
applause. Carney is obviously a THINKER who is then able to impliment
his thoughts with terrific skill. His moves are beautiful to watch in
slow motion although it was obvious to most of the attendees - as
measured by intakes of breath, some slight sighs and giggles - that
most of them realized they could never duplicate some of the moves if
they practiced from now to doomsday. No once did anyone ask him to
demonstrate a move again.
Here are a few of the effects he demonstrated:
Hot Slot - The performer explains that after a trip to a gambling
casino he was left with only a nickle, a quarter, and a half dollar.
He uses these, his wand, and his closed hand to represent a slot
machine. He tries his luck with the nickle and it vanishes. He tries
again with the quarter, only to experience the same result. He tries
with his last coin - the half dollar - and gets a payoff as a stream of
half-dollars cascades into a glass!
To The Sticking Point - Three coins are shown to penentrate thru the
table top and to land in a glass held below the table.
Quarter Spin - a very nice handling of coin-in-bottle.
A Polite Penetration - A borrowed dollar bill is rolled into a tube and
four quarters are spilled out. The quarters are then placed on the top
of a spectator's extended hand and the tube is placed onto them. Using
a pencil, the performer presses on the stack and they penentrate the
spectoator's hand!
Inscrutable - The performer states that he can identify the position of
any card except a joker in a shuffled deck. He proceedes to
demonstrate this skill, failing to impress the audience, since he does
it by exaggerated glimpses. After a bit of alternate location the
performer ends up with three jokers face down on the table and one face
up in his hand. He scoops over the face down cards and all four cards
are seen to be aces.
Predictable Surprise - A prediction of a selected card is written on a
table napkin by the performer and is left on the table (face down). A
spectator selects a card from a deck and partially replaces it in the
deck. The prediction is revealed and is a success. Then, following a
shuffle, the chosen card is found under the napkin.
Straggler - A card is selected by a spectator and returned to the deck.
The cards are wrapped in a cocktail napkin and one card is made to
penentrate the napkin. It is _not_ the selected card. A second
attempt is made and again, the wrong card falls into the spectator's
hands. The cards begin to tumble into the spectator's hands and,
finally the napkin, still folded, falls on top of the pile. When it is
opened it is revealed that only one card is still in the napkin - the
selected card!
Bullet Train - Four aces are individually vanished from the performer's
hands and to appear under the shoulder of the performer's coat, in one
of the inside pockets, and, in the case of the last ace, from one hand
to the other - apparently going up one sleeve, across the body, and
down the other sleeve.
Suicide Match - a semi-impromptu effect with a prepared matchbox. The
drawer slides open and a match extends itself, presumably without the
intervention of the magician.
There were at least another half-dozen or more effects demonstrated,
including The Thirteenth Victim - a very clever close-up "bullet catch"
done with a finger acting as a gun and a surprise "kicker" ending.
All of the effects, by the way, are well described in Carneycopia,
John's new book, written by Stephen Minch with illustrations by Kelly
Lyles.
Along the way, Mr. Carney also made an elegant argument in favor of the
WAND, demonstrating its usefullness to the magician.
Now for the question - how would I rate this lecture? On a scale of 1
to 10, I would give it an 8.5. I would commend Mr. Carney as a
delightful inspiration to any magic lecture audience.
Msg #18095 Dated 0:26:39 09-09-91 18094 <--> 18097
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Thanks for the review, David. I trust that Carney had copies of his
book on hand in lieu of lecture notes.
Msg #18096 Dated 0:17:57 09-09-91 -> 18101
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: BAD VIBES
Several people have approached me lately - in person, on the phone, and
by private message - and have registered a series of complaints
concerning MAGIC! In general, their comments can be summed up as
saying that MAGIC! has become too in-bred, too cliquey, that newcommers
are not welcomed, that the atmosphere is too protective and too stuffy
and that the opinions of beginners are often met with cold rebuff
rather than with consideration for their status and with the provisin
f guidance. I'm told that people have become afraid to enter into
discussions, afraid to contribute ideas, and, in general, made to feel
that they are not welcome.
These comments have not come from only one or two people.
These comments are causing me a great deal of concern, sleepless
nights, and an increased intake of various preparations for the
treatment of indigestion.
I'd like to throw this topic open to discussion, with the hope that we
can find some ways to make new members more welcome.
Msg #18097 Dated 1:04:32 09-09-91 18095 <--> 18111
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Indeed, Mr. Carney had two books available in lieu of lecture notes,
his 1983 one, Carney Knowledge (5-1/2" x 8-1/2", 57 pages), and his new
one, Carneycopia (L & L Publishing, 266 pagesplus 29 pages of
introductory material). In addition, he had his video available.
Msg #18099 Dated 2:21:51 09-09-91 18072 <--> 18116
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
I seem to remember Groucho doing it sometime back in the thirties.
'W.
Msg #18100 Dated 2:22:58 09-09-91 18093 <--> 18154
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: NEW GENII
I'll get it off in the mail to you this week. Let me know if you need
it sooner than that.
'Wayne.
Msg #18101 Dated 2:26:28 09-09-91 18096 <--> 18112
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Whaddya mean by that??
Are you saying that opinions are not respected around here?
Poppycock!!!
What a load of tripe!!!!
I find the very suggestion that the members here are not open-minded
and considerate of conflicting points of view to be nothing more than
a putrid pile of pigeon poo-poo!!!
Whoever suggested such a thing should have their typing fingers sewn
together with invisible thread!!!!
'W.
Msg #18102 Dated 6:38:26 09-09-91 -> 18104
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Having been involved in various stages of booking magic events over
the years, I have found it often difficult to get an act to give you
the routine they will perform much less getting a lecturer to give
you any meaningful information about a lecture. Frankly, until this
board and the recent messages, I have never heard attendees express a
desire to have any indepth information about a lecturer other than
wanting to know if the lecture would be "all sleight of hand stuff"
versus the standard "a bit of this and that for everybody". Magic in
general suffers from a lack of high standards and a persistent
resistance to meeting any standards that are presented. This seems
particularly true if the standards or requests smack in any way of
good business practices.
Msg #18104 Dated 6:39:08 09-09-91 -> 18120
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I am not opposed to descriptions of lectures, but think for a moment
of some of the practical problems. At I.B.M. there are at least 7
stage lectures and three close up lectures. The Convention schedule
presently takes two pages in the program with NO room left over. If
we assume that we COULD get a decent description of each lecturers
lecture from them, think for a moment of the problem fitting all of
these descriptions into the program...even if only a one line
description. I really wonder if it would make most difference to
most in attendance if they had the descriptions.
I can see this sort of thing being much more useful for a magic club
lecture where an entry fee is charged, the lecture lasts for over two
hours, and a definite decision is made regarding whether one attends
a lecture or not.
Msg #18105 Dated 7:52:08 09-09-91 18067 <--> 18123
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: HI THERE!!
I've been reading _Illusion Show_ by David Bamberg over the past week
or so. That was his dad's (Okito) philosophy basically as far as
trouping a show was concerned - pack small, play big. A lot of subtle
insight can be gained between those pages.
Msg #18107 Dated 7:52:17 09-09-91 18075 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BANNON BOOK
I hope to see some reviews of lecturers appear here also. Since
some of us seem to have different criterion on what makes for a good
lecture I would hope to see the reviewer's checklist of lecturology
to perhaps get a better idea of what was hoped to be gained also.
Msg #18108 Dated 7:52:23 09-09-91 18078 <--> 18121
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: REVIEW
Lilly whites? Are you home or are you still a road warrior?
Msg #18111 Dated 7:52:39 09-09-91 18094 <--> 18114
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Sounds like John Carney put forth with a good lecture. Thanks David
for putting up the info. Did he allow any taping of the program,
either audio or video? Did he cover all the sleights, moves, and
other bits of business necessary for implementation of his magic or
were you left to look elsewhere (his new book?)? How was his lecture
described in the program? Did he provide photo opportunity?
Msg #18112 Dated 7:52:46 09-09-91 18096 <--> 18115
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Your message sounds kinda scarey to me David. Since I don't see the
problem, I must be part of the problem. Since my family came over
on the boat to Jamestown I'm probably a little too inbred to notice
what's going on here.
.
I would like to point out that each of us with the exception of you
were newcomers to the system at one time. Some of us started with
MAGIC! early on and have become conversationally associated with
each other. Just as in life, we tend to gravitate toward those who
appear to have similar thoughts and feelings about things.
.
I signed on to MAGIC! around message 390 on the first 20k messages
because I heard Pete Biro was here. I've not know anyone that Biro
hasn't welcomed and he is the #1 contributor according to the break-
down I saw on the system a few weeks back.
.
The earlier complaints I heard about MAGIC! were that it was too
much like a mutual admiration society and too much back slapping
going on. Now that bothered me as lack of criticism means lack of
personal growth. If we always think we're doing it right; and
especially if we're doing it wrong; it could lead to sadness in
the real world away from the back slappers. Fu Manchu had some
good comments to make about back slappers in _Illusion Show_. I'm
glad to see that we aren't doing that anymore and that growth has
occured.
.
If I don't think that I'm shutting anybody out, then perhaps I can't
see the forest for the forest and AM shutting newcomers out. This
self analysis is tough.
.
I don't think that there's any such thing as a clique; well, a static
clique that is. The entire world down to your street can be found
cliques. I guess the clique of the mind is the tightest knit and
most of us don't even know what the next guy or girl looks like
unless we have taken the opportunity to meet in person.
.
Rather than change MAGIC! and the membership might I make a suggestio
n?
.
Send a PRIVATE MESSAGE to someone you identify (well, not you; but
to new members who want to communicate and get feedback) with and
request some info or ask a question. If you are wondering if your
idea has propriety someplace ask privately. Private being NOT PUBLIC.
Only the person addressed will read it and their reply to you will
be private as well. It's those one on one conversations that are most
meaningful.
.
I've heard it said that all EXPERTS were beginners at one time. Tjhis
is most likely true; however, not all beginners become experts. The
path is open though to all who choose to do so, most often by
personal sacrifice because of the time involved.
.
I'm sorry I missed it and thought that ALL were treated the same here
on MAGIC!. I worked with a show once that treated all newcomers like
krap for a few months. If you lived through all that and could still
crack a joke then you were in. I survived becaue certin individuals
in the organization were polite enough to answer my questions and to
provide inspiration. With the applied inspiration I learned that I
knew nothing (I had though I knew a lot but really knew diddly) and
started paying attention. I don't view this initiation as a bad thing
at all. Life is hard and the tougher we make it on each other on the
inside, the tougher we are OUT THERE.
.
I appologize to any and all newcomers if I have contributed to the
general negative feeling. Perhaps we could turn the system over to
the newcomers for a while and let them have some fun too. This is the
first time on the system that I've even thought in terms of US and
THEM and I don't like it at all. I thought we were ALL a clique
and a pretty damn exclusive one at that - both invisible and typal.
.
.
.
Msg #18113 Dated 8:40:15 09-09-91 18089 <--> 18783
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: TONIGHT II
Thanks Max, I had seen some time ago and just couldn't recall the
name of the performer. Was (still is) a great bit!
Msg #18114 Dated 8:40:20 09-09-91 18095 <--> 18145
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
I wonder what the missing 1.5 points David held back were for? Oh,
no balloons! Thassit.
Msg #18115 Dated 8:40:25 09-09-91 18096 <--> 18118
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
My guess is that people tend to think they are going to see what is
the equievilant of a magic book being written here. IE: New tricks
and explanations all the time. Not sure. It is not good if they do
not think they are welcome... but maybe they are not as deeply
involved or interested in the THEORY and feel that is not for them?
Msg #18116 Dated 8:40:32 09-09-91 18099 <--> 18117
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
He did a lot of gooooooooooood stuff, no question. Also Harpo!!!!!!
Msg #18117 Dated 8:40:36 09-09-91 18099 <--> 18128
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
Hey, are you tlking abou the dusting powder or the Juggler with
no assistant bit?
Msg #18118 Dated 8:40:41 09-09-91 18101 <--> 18122
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
And doused with CRAZY glue?
Msg #18120 Dated 8:40:49 09-09-91 18104 <--> 18127
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
And besides, any KNOWLEDGABLE PERSON will know what the lecturer is
about. For example, yesterday at the Castle -- was there any doubt
that Carney would do small and clever stuff and NOT illusions and
variations of dove pan handlings, or balloons, or kid show stuff?
NO. That is why you study magic, read the books, show reviews and
HOPEFULLY lecture reviews.
Dante, are you listening? About LECTURE REVIEWS.
Msg #18121 Dated 8:40:59 09-09-91 18108 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: REVIEW
I don't got white sheets at home... roadin' it for another hour,
then driving to LA, fiddlin about and home tonite around 10 pm.
Msg #18122 Dated 8:41:04 09-09-91 18112 <--> 18146
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I guess it is time for us to sign off for good then. My other guess
is when someone says, "Any body have any good ideas on how to use
a trick Ricky Jay did on tv, or what good ways can I do the trick
I saw Copperfield use" and I yell and scream to quit doing what
other people are doing THEY DON'T LIKE IT. They all wanna be good
and safe CLONES of what they see. The don't want to hear that they
are wrong and there is much to be gained by thinking more. Never
stop thinking about the stuff you do. They want to be comfortable
MAGICALUMPEN.... well FOOOOEEEEY.... if THEY DON'T SEE THE FOREST,
MAYBE WE SHOULD QUIT PLANTING MORE TREES. ARGH
Msg #18123 Dated 11:56:39 09-09-91 18105 <-
From: MIKE KING
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HI THERE!!
I will checK it out. Thanks for the tip. If you have not read it.
Pick up a copy of Ken Griffiths book Illusion Show Know How. Much of
the same philosophy by a guy who did it for year after year. Vrey
good.
Msg #18125 Dated 17:33:22 09-09-91 -> 18130
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: HEAVEN!!!!!
Well here I am... right in the middle of Techie Heaven!! The Frog
hissef is pouring the coffee. Nathan is finished with his act (we have
written new material for him... I told him the floating Ukelele is too
close to Norm Nielsen's Floating Violin....) In a short time he is on
the spot and will be doing a MAJOR public appearance!
Msg #18127 Dated 17:46:19 09-09-91 18104 <--> 18140
From: MAX MAVEN
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I think there is minimal need for lecture descriptions in a convention
program, other than possibly a succinct title. Unlike other venues, at
a convention the registrants are already present, and admission has
been paid in advance. So, most people are going to attend most lectures
regardless, and if there are questions there's generally plenty of
word-of-mouth information available.
Msg #18128 Dated 18:58:43 09-09-91 18117 <--> 18132
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
I was talking about the talcum powder bit having possibly been
Groucho's.
'W.
Msg #18129 Dated 19:57:05 09-09-91 -> 18133
From: STAN LAKE
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC! CLIQUE
I read our Sysops message about some members feeling that
Magic! has become cliquish, etc. New words such as
"Magicalumpen" could tend to make one feel put off or left
out if we don't automatically assume they don't refer to us.
They are very real concerns to some of our members so they
definitely need to be addressed.
I think we need to encourage more of our silent members to
sign on and say hello. So here goes...
Hello out there! Is there a person interested in magic
reading this?? If so, who are you? What is your interest in
magic? Are you working on any new tricks or routines? Do
you belong to any magic clubs or are you on your own?
When I first signed onto this board soon after it's inception
I had a renewed interest in magic that hadn't been fired up
since childhood. I asked what basic books in particular were
recommended for me and Max Maven and Pete Biro among others
gave helpful responses. Although I would be considered a
neophyte magic enthusiast by many of our more experienced
board members, I am now able to make my magic hobby a paying
one. I must be a decent magician by my clients standards as
I have been requested to give repeat performances and I offer
a money back guarantee that they will be entertained. So far
no one has accepted this offer but I have been given an
additional tip above and beyond my fee!
Due to the guidance given by other magi on here I have tried
to focus more on quality rather than quantity of tricks.
Doing some tricks no one else does or at least differently.
Always being willing to learn and striving to do better.
To get the most out of this bulletin board it is best to
participate. I don't have enough free time to engage in a
lot of general chit-chat. I usually don't leave many
comments unless I think I have something worthwhile to say or
add to what someone else says. For instance when someone is
nice enough to take the time to post a review of a lecture or
book or something I won't say "Thank you" if one or more
others have already expressed their thanks. No sense in
clogging up our board with a hundred acknowledgements every
time someone posts something. Sometimes I am concerned about
a lack of responses when I post something. An example was
when I recently invited anyone on board here to a week or two
of rest, relaxation and magic at Bass Lake near Yosemite.
It's a beautiful summer home on the lake that would normally
rent for $2000 a week. It was all ours for the asking and of
the 600 or so members of Magic! I thought I would have to
take them first come first served. No one came, no one was
served.
I would like to hear from some of you who do not normally
respond to messages. This is not the same as watching TV or
reading a book. This works best when the communication goes
at least two ways.
Thik f this as a Merry-go-round. You can get on and get
off at any point but don't just stand on the sidelines while
every one else has fun. Has what I said made any sense?
After this message stops just type the letter "R" to reply.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you!
Msg #18130 Dated 20:00:43 09-09-91 18125 <--> 18134
From: STAN LAKE
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HEAVEN!!!!!
Pete, how long are you in town for? Just passing through?
Msg #18131 Dated 20:45:56 09-09-91 -> 18135
From: BRUCE SANDERCOCK
To: ALL
Re: PINS
I would like to purchase a set of Jerry Andrus's Linking Pins. Two
shops I checked do not carry them. Does anyone have Jerry's address
where I might order them direct? I
posted this request 10 days ago with no replys. Anyone?
Msg #18132 Dated 22:14:51 09-09-91 18128 <--> 18252
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
OK.... yep, it would make sense. I was in middle of another thread
about an act that juggled with a partner (that did not show up) and it
would have looked like..... if he had... etc. and forgot the dusting
powder bit. You is probably correct. But hey, didn't you say it was
before your time?
Msg #18133 Dated 22:17:49 09-09-91 18129 <--> 18155
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: MAGIC! CLIQUE
One of these days I am going to take you up on Bass Lake. But my
nutcase schedule this year has been difficult....
GREAT MESSAGE. I wrote one on my laptop on the airplane that I plan to
send tomorrow (just got in after several days out in the Mojave
Desert... arghh.... etc.....
I HAVE ONE PLAN. THAT IS IF ANYONE ON LINE SENDS A MESSAGE OR REPLIES
TO A MESSAGE... THEY LOSE THEIR STATUS AS MAGICALUMPEN!!! HAHA....
.
WHADDYA SAY LURKERS... LES GET GOIN'..... WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Msg #18134 Dated 22:19:46 09-09-91 18130 <--> 18153
From: PETE BIRO
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: HEAVEN!!!!!
iN AND out like the brreeeeze.... had to stop at John Gaughan's wonder
factory zip into world HQ of MAGIC! und catch a flying machine.... one
of these days will put my body on display for a few days.... adios...
Msg #18135 Dated 22:20:50 09-09-91 18131 <--> 18156
From: PETE BIRO
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: PINS
OK, tomorrow will give you Andrus' address... too tired to look just
got home see other msgs. bye
Msg #18138 Dated 22:24:28 09-09-91 -> 18179
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAIL
Yikes I look 100 years old in that pic... might be coat"rack" wilson?
Alos the box here, not opened yet, just flew in tired and dead. Got a
long prive one for you tomorrow on som good stuffffffffff argh...zzzzz
Msg #18140 Dated 23:04:48 09-09-91 18102 <--> 18141
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I find it interesting that lectures apparently have not been decribed
in either pre-release material or in convention programs, particularly
in the case of conventions where there may be more than one lecture
scheduled at any one time. You are right - in other fields it is
common business practice.
Msg #18141 Dated 23:07:12 09-09-91 18104 <--> 18143
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Hmmmm.... And as I grow older I can see some definite disadvantages to
suggesting smaller type for the schedule! I have this vision of the
attendees at IBM walking around with jeweler's loupes...
I would think, though, that even in the case of a convention where
there is only one lecture at a time (I guess this could be considered
as a _serial_ convention rather than a _parallel_ one) a short synopsis
would be useful. I know that I found time to be at a considerable
premium at IBM as there was a LOT going on!
Msg #18143 Dated 23:11:12 09-09-91 18127 <--> 18144
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Even at a convention it might be nice to have some inkling of what the
lecturer is doing - perhaps a line like "All NEW material" or "Same
stuff he/she did last year."
There is nothing particularly unique about magic conventions that
differentiates them from other professional conventions in terms of
word-of-mouth information or in terms of the reputations of the
lecturers.
Msg #18144 Dated 23:14:49 09-09-91 18143 <--> 18150
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
If you'll go back and read my previous message, I said that posting
one-line titles would be viable. In the specific convention context,
that's really all that's necessary.
Msg #18145 Dated 23:17:42 09-09-91 18111 <--> 18163
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
To the best of my knowledge, the Carney lecture was not videotaped and
I did not see any overt audio recording equipment. He did cover all of
the sleights, moves and bits of business in very good detail although
they also appear to be very well explained in his new book. The
lecture was only identified in the Castle Newsletter by his name next
to a date, unfortunately the traditional way that Castle lectures are
described. I did not see any photos being taken, but Mr. Carney did
allow ample time after the lecture for questions, for autographing
books and videotapes, etc.
You do have a good idea there - the answers to these questions should
be on some sort of reviewer's checklist - perhaps we should assemble
one?
Msg #18146 Dated 23:24:07 09-09-91 18101 <--> 18147
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Yes, Wayne, and after their hands are tied, they should be turned over
to the appropriate MAGIC! committee for some serious bodily harm.
Msg #18147 Dated 23:23:03 09-09-91 18096 <--> 18148
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I'm not sure exactly what sort of cold rebuff of beginners is meant --
but I would make the observation that if someone comes on line and
knows little about a subject, he or she should expect that those who
have more information will provide it. When I first got into computing
I asked what were a lot of very stupid or obvious questions about it --
and, depending on the skill level of who I'm talking to, I still do; I
realize that these questions are going to sound stupid and may even
sometimes irritate someone to whom the answer is simple -- but that is
part of what being a beginner is. I expect to get corrected a lot --
and I am.
Of course there are degrees in how one works with the inexperienced;
here, I try to be relatively benign; during shooting instruction I once
came very close to breaking someone's wrist.
Another point -- addressed here before -- is the concept of magic as
one big happy family where everybody makes nice. Well, a lot of the
time, perhaps; but not always -- and magic is not always served by
being nice about it. As Flaubert said: "The man is nothing, the work
is everything."
Msg #18148 Dated 23:29:31 09-09-91 18101 <--> 18149
From: T A WATERS
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Oh, shuddup, Wayne; who wants to hear from you?
Msg #18149 Dated 23:26:58 09-09-91 18112 <--> 18151
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Thank you for your very thoughtful comments, Tabby. You made some very
fine points, but apparently it is tough in this environment for new
members, and even some of the lurkers who have been around for some
time, to feel comfortable in joining in the fun. A fair number seem to
feel that the responses will be adversely critical, rather than
constructive.
I know what you are saying about being tested in the fire - my
summation of your next to the last paragraph - and I've been there, but
that only works well on likeminded people. There are some who feel
that the test isn't worth the effort and they just drift away, not
because of lack of talent, but because of a different view of the
world.
Msg #18150 Dated 23:32:13 09-09-91 18104 <--> 18159
From: T A WATERS
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I'm a bit mystified, probably because I don't go to conventions; isn't
describing what's going on what programs are SUPPOSED to do?
Msg #18151 Dated 23:32:07 09-09-91 18115 <--> 18160
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Perhaps we stress theory to the exclusion of the other aspects of
magic? That is not to say that MAGIC! and the contributors we do have,
who have taken it in that direction, have not made a very profound
impact - I know that I have an entirely different, and I think much
more mature, view of magic than I did a year ago, and I am very glad of
it, but there are other aspects and perhaps we should not be so
uni-directional.
Msg #18153 Dated 23:44:22 09-09-91 18125 <--> 18184
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HEAVEN!!!!!
It was a great day at Techy Heaven today! The Biro arrived along with
the New Year (for those who don't know, today is the first day of 5752)
and the few hours he had between John Gaughan and Jim Steinmeyer and
the airport were golden. And Pete really did revamp Nathan's act - it
was great to watch them exchange ideas. It will be going into rehersal
shortly and the scheduled debut is September 29th!
Msg #18154 Dated 23:49:09 09-09-91 18100 <--> 18161
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: NEW GENII
The U.S. Postal system will be fine. (I happen
to enjoy the mail. Ever mailed a cocoanut? you
just slap a stamp on it). We will offer a
reply as you suggested and apology to Prof.
Corey. You won't be too mean now... right. We
have a "backslapping" standard to uphold. -That
is not meant to be taken to seriously!
Msg #18155 Dated 23:51:55 09-09-91 18129 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STAN LAKE (X)
Re: MAGIC! CLIQUE
Stan - Thank you for an excellent post. I hope it will make new folks
feel more at home and I really appreciate your taking the time to put
it together.
As Tabby said - we were all new here once and we need, from time to
time, to remember that.
Msg #18156 Dated 23:53:26 09-09-91 18135 <--> 18178
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PINS
Pete -
Please don't forget to track down Andrus' address for Bruce Sandercock.
Thanks.
Msg #18159 Dated 0:02:23 09-10-91 18144 <--> 18209
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Certainly a title would be helpful. In some cases, perhaps it would
even help the lecturer.
Msg #18160 Dated 0:04:03 09-10-91 18147 <--> 18162
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Was coming very close to breaking someone's wrist an example of being
"relatively benign"? If so, may I never mess up a sleight in your
presence!
Seriously, I think that you have touched on a key point of some of the
comments I've received - I believe that it has more to do with attitude
than with content. In the case of computing, for example, I have
always assumed that there are no stupid questions since they are not
stupid to the person who asks them. I believe that there are whole
philosophical schools built on that very point.
I would also agree that "magic is not always served by being nice about
it" (in the context of a "happy family") but I do think that the level
of the individual must be taken into consideration.
Msg #18161 Dated 0:12:31 09-10-91 18154 <--> 18185
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: NEW GENII
Dante - I appologize to you for breaking into a serious conversation of
considerable importance, but I do have to know, have you also mailed a
coconut by slapping a stamp on it? I've done it and it worked! I
don't know if postal regulations still allow it, but it would seem that
the product inside is quite reasonably protected from the hazards!
Msg #18162 Dated 0:17:09 09-10-91 18115 <--> 18165
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Pete--
Reread your message again. There's a large judgement made in the
last sentence that, to a newcomer, would be very off-putting.
An ideal position for MAGIC! to be in (to paraphrase someone else
on the board), would be to facilitate enjoyment for people of many
interest levels. NOT to define what MAGIC! is for them, but to let
them all define it for themselves/us.
Msg #18163 Dated 0:21:36 09-10-91 18097 <--> 18164
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Do you know if Carney Knowledge is readily available? Guess I should
have asked BEFORE you went to the lecture!
Msg #18164 Dated 0:31:08 09-10-91 18163 <--> 18180
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Er, I don't know if Carney Knowledge is readily available, but he did
seem to have a goodly supply of them at the lecture and he didn't say
"I only have ten copies of this left," so I assume it is. Mr. Carney's
address does not come readily to my hand - perhaps someone else could
supply it and you could contact him.
Msg #18165 Dated 0:27:48 09-10-91 18096 <--> 18169
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I think we all could do something to help this along. I don't know if
anything has been written yet on the evolution of computer bulletin
board-like arrangements, but I'm sure that certain ingredients are
necessary for their continued survivial -- and I'm certain that one of
those ingredients is new blood.
I'm not so sure that new member's messages aren't being answered or not
-- if that's a problem, it's an easy one to fix -- we just all make
efforts to answer new messages. I think it would be a mistake,
however, to focus too much on that -- lull ourselves into a false state
of calm, if you will. Because I think it is problem of attitude anfd
tone more than anything else. I imagine there will always be some
cliquishness to systems like MAGIC! But, too much of it and new blood
will be blocked out and MAGIC! will die.
How is a newcomer supposed to feel when he logs on and reads a series
of in-joke, derisive cackling about people called "magicalumpen?"
When he or she reads through upwards of a few hundred messages, most of
which consists on single-line inside jokes? When ignorance is
occasionally rewarded by a wrist slap, not knowledge?
I'm not denying some guilt in all this -- but I think it's time to
approach some of our messages with more than just ourselves and our
immediate agendas in mind. I think the distribution of knowledge and
ideas should be our first concern -- judgements and wild talk our last.
There should be as little hierarchy as possible, less obsession with
categorizing and deriding the people out there who aren't as intensely
involved as some.
If we want this board to remain healthy and usefull for all of us, we
must exercise restrain -- hold back on the judgements, and be generous
with knowledge and patience. Keep the inside-jokes to private
messages, and create an atmosphere that suggests to the newcomer that
there is room here for members of different levels of interest. There
is no "real work" on MAGIC! that we must labor to jealously protect,
like a group of six year-olds hovered over a cigar box containing a
near-dead frog. We belong to this forum to share what we are willing
to share, not to point out what we are not.
The "real work" on MAGIC! is creating an environment friendly to all
levels of communication from all comers. Not just a few with big
mouths and loose keyboards.*
*-Guilty as charge. But so what?
Msg #18166 Dated 0:32:29 09-10-91 -> 18186
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: PLEASE FORWARD TO PHIL
I just read "Free of Charge" in Tom Craven's column in the September,
1991, Linking Ring and it is GREAT! Just the sort of material I have
been looking for lately. Please consider this the "Thank You" that
Craven suggested that we send you.
I also noticed that a couple of pages later Phil Willmarth, in his
review of Thevant, said "I admit to being totally baffled, however,why
Max Maven, the performer, permits Phil Goldstein, the creator, to
publish such marvelous performance material." Having been on MAGIC!,
the answer, on at least one level, is, of course, rather obvious, in
that Max as the performer would certainly accord the publication rights
to the creator, but it does give rise to some similar thoughts that I
have harbored for some time - do you, Max, resent Phil's creativity?
Or does he, Phil, resent your performance ability?
Msg #18169 Dated 0:57:12 09-10-91 18165 <--> 18174
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
If we had a MAGIC! Prize for Literature, I think you would have just
won it!
I think that you hit MANY of the nails directly on the head. But I am
concerned that we don't go "overboard" in an attempt to compensate - we
need to preserve the sense of community that has been established as
well as to make it a place that welcomes newcomers.
Thank you.
Msg #18171 Dated 1:54:47 09-10-91 -> 18187
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: ANOTHER MAGIC! FIRST
September appears to have been a busy month around here - we were
mentioned in the September issues of GENII, M A G I C, and LINKING
RING! And for a different reason in each case!
Msg #18172 Dated 1:59:09 09-10-91 -> 18188
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: THE MAN WHO IS T A
T A Waters has provided a most interesting and somewhat critical review
of The Man Who Was Erdnase in the September issue of Genii. Would
anyone care to comment on either the review or T A's note at the end of
it?
Msg #18174 Dated 2:15:37 09-10-91 18122 <--> 18181
From: JERRY BURTON
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I could see how a new person could perceive MAGIC! to be cliquish
when they see a lot of private (inside ?) comments being passed back
and forth and may feel left out. But as Tabby said, everyone was new
on the board at one time.
.
I came on after seeing the demo at DMS this year and have made some
good friends by getting involved. I find the best way to join a
clique is to contribute something. If you have an opinion and one of
the INSIDE guys disagrees, so what ! That's what the board is all
about. There have been quite a few new people come on and join the
fray - if you can't take the heat, move from the desert to the mtns
(or is it get out of the kitchen and go to the can - I can never
remember ?). Since I read every msg on this board, I can't recall
any new people getting jumped on, anymore than the regulars. People
should approach MAGIC! as an anonymous debate and realize that in
debates there is bound to be a difference of opinion - but hey that's
what makes this thing fun. Many of my opinions have changed as a
result of this board, and I think that's healthy.
.
Are we sure the grippers are really P&T trying to put us on ??
Msg #18175 Dated 4:03:21 09-10-91 -> 18190
From: DOUG SMITH
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: STAGE FOG
Thanks for the tip on ROSCO. *!/ They sent information and specs on
their fog product. The company recieved an Academy Award in 1984 for
the product. According to the information it is relatively quite
harmless. You would need to drink two quarts to do you
in"quarts to do you in."The literature
indicated that t heir is little irritation in breathing the fog. I
could not have found the information without the system. thanks
Msg #18178 Dated 5:32:47 09-10-91 18131 <--> 18214
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: PINS
I'm sorry, Bruce. I don't have Jerry Andrus' address where I can put
my mitts onit, but I think Charlie Randall or Pete Biro has it close.
Are you still coming up to Richmond next week?
Msg #18179 Dated 5:32:52 09-10-91 18138 <--> 18221
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MAIL
So you home now. Good. I'll be gone this afternoon to Atlantic City
to catch Tony Roi's act and see if there's anything I think I can do
for him. Got a little windup motor driven card rise yesterday from
some used magic guy I know. Has given me an idea. Will have to do
some research to see who already did it before I do it again.
Msg #18180 Dated 5:32:59 09-10-91 18145 <--> 18217
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Checklists and catagorization of the human element goes against my
grain but I do understand the basic need for such. Everytime I see
something like this my mind snaps back to the sixties and the words
to one of my favorite Tom Paxton songs starts cruising through my
brain. If I remember correctly all the discussion on lecturology,
the primary concerns were whether the stuff was in the notes or
if they would allow taping, etc not whether the lecture was actually
any good or not.
Msg #18181 Dated 5:33:07 09-10-91 18147 <--> 18182
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
is everything.
Msg #18182 Dated 5:33:12 09-10-91 18149 <--> 18189
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I would rather build a table for a master than sit at a table of
fools.
.
Please, this is NOT a reflection on ANYONE on this network. And I
thought I was sensitive!!
Msg #18184 Dated 5:33:25 09-10-91 18153 <--> 18223
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: HEAVEN!!!!!
Pete's a great visitor, isn't he. Am sure Nathan enjoyed him.
Just where did he sit in your office or is it not still stacked to
the ceiling on all quarters with diskettes, modems, thousands of
software packages, hard drives, etc?
Msg #18185 Dated 5:33:31 09-10-91 18154 <--> 18376
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: NEW GENII
Glo and I mailed a coconut from Maui to Alexandria, VA two years
ago just as you outline. Glo's dad said the postman leered at him
for a month afterwards (it was one of those macabre coconut faces).
Msg #18186 Dated 5:33:36 09-10-91 18166 <--> 18274
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PLEASE FORWARD TO PHIL
This is none of my business but why must the words RESENT be used
here in this context? Certainly Phil Goldstein and Max Maven
complement or are you just trying to get a rise outa Max?
Msg #18187 Dated 5:33:41 09-10-91 18171 <--> 18275
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ANOTHER MAGIC! FIRST
Where in LR?
Msg #18188 Dated 5:33:44 09-10-91 18172 <--> 18219
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: THE MAN WHO IS T A
I haven't seen September's GENII yet, but it is a review I'm most
interested in.
Msg #18189 Dated 5:33:49 09-10-91 18174 <--> 18213
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I get concerned that if we try to be all things to all people we'll
end as nothing to no one.
Msg #18190 Dated 5:33:53 09-10-91 18175 <--> 18220
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DOUG SMITH (X)
Re: STAGE FOG
You're welcome. Thank Mike Strobel of TMS Light and Staging who
told me so I could tell you.
Msg #18191 Dated 5:57:27 09-10-91 -> 18224
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CARNEY, ETC.
Couldn't agree with you more about the new Carney book. It has some
really good material in it. But probably the highlight of the book is
the introductory essay on making magic into an art. Great stuff.
We've already sold all but one of our first order of the book!
On a different subject, the endless chain. Do you have Whit Haydn's
routine. I think it is one of the most entertaining ones around. Note
though that it doesn't use the little extra chain ending.
Oh, sorry about the Oilers. I hope the Raiders win all the rest of
their games. Well until they meet the Oilers in the playoffs.
Charlie
Msg #18192 Dated 5:58:16 09-10-91 -> 18204
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: ALL
Re: TAOM CONVENTION
Well I've been back several days but this is the first chance I've
had to comment on last weekend's TAOM convention. I must admit I went
with small expectations but was pleasantly surprised. The convention
was held in Tyer whichturned out to be a nice, peaceful little town.
Also the guy in charge of the convention had only attended his first
convention when he went to the TAOM in Dallas last year. As that was
not all that good a convention, I was worried that he'd not have much
to shoot for. Also when I saw the line-up, it was a little on the weak
side mostly featuring local talent. While these guys are good, we get
to see them all the time. The non-locals were Johnny Thompson, Jay
Scott Berry, Bob King, General Grant, and Paul Diamond.
As I've said, despite my preconceived notions, the convention turned
out quite well. The highlight for me was Johnny Thompson. Even though
I've seen him before, I could watch him and listen to his lecture a
million times. As a matter of fact I sneaked in and caught his lecture
for the other group. Johnny Thompson to me is Mr. Magic in perform,
knowledge, and style.
Jay Scott Berry was another pleasant surprise. First of all he is a
real friendly guy who has spent a lot of time thinking about stuff.
Although I still don't agree with some of his thinking, I now have a
lot more respect for him.
As for the rest of the convention I'll only mention one other item.
That is MarcoM's entrance as MC for the Saturday night show. It was
"spectacular" to say the least (sorry about the quotation marks Evan).
He took two steps through the curtain and was gone. He'd fallen into
the orchestra pit! He has this very confident, almost arrogant walk so
it was pretty amazing to see and at first I thought, as apparently did
most of the audience, that it was part of his act. When it first
happened there was quite a bit of laughter in the audience. This died
down quickly when the house lights were brought up and a doctor was
called for. I walked down to the pit after the show and don't know how
MarcoM wasn't hurt badly. The floor of the pit is at least 8 feet
down. And where he fell there is a stairwell and railing leading
underneath the stage. But he came out later during the show and spoke
briefly and the next night MC'd the show.
Charlie
Msg #18193 Dated 5:59:03 09-10-91 -> 18205
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BOOKS AND ALL
Tabman, couple of items. What did you think of Kevin King? He's
good friends with one of the local guys, Bob Murphy. Bob once showed
me a video of Kevin performing a coin routine, specifically Michael
Ammar's routine where the last coin falls from top of the performer's
head into the spectator's hands. The expression on her face when that
last coin appearred was one of the best I've ever seen. And she's seen
a lot of magic!
Regarding T.A.'s video: it is really good. I've been using the
one-way deck idea. It's especially good for fooling magicians. The
first item with the chest is a great idea. If I were to do it I think
I'd use at least 6 or 7 items. Since you can't repeat it, you need to
cut down on the chance that it could just be a lucky guess. Plenty of
other good items on the tape, easily worth the modest cost.
Will check with Bill Palmer to see if he'll let me upload the article
here. It is a good article.
The Tamariz book, _Sonata_, is on back order but we are suppose to
receive it next week along with the rest of the Tamariz books. Will
ship yours when they arrive. Thanks.
Charlie
Msg #18194 Dated 5:59:46 09-10-91 -> 18320
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: CLASSIC
David, the best way to practice the classic bovine patty method is to
use it any to you do the patty method. That when you need to do a
bovine patty method you'll have built up the confidence to do the
classic bovine patty method.
Charlie
Msg #18195 Dated 6:00:19 09-10-91 -> 18319
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: TV
David, your recent statement about TV as a medium reminds me of one
of my favorite sayings by Arthur C. Clarke. "TV is a great way to kill
time...for people who like their time that way."
Charlie
Msg #18196 Dated 6:00:44 09-10-91 -> 18446
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BANNON
The Bannon book is scheduled to be shipped on the 15th. We have our
order in. Also Bannon will be here Thursday, the 12th, to lecture.
Charlie
Msg #18197 Dated 6:01:18 09-10-91 -> 18226
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: ALL
Re: DAVID ROTH BOX
Anybody know the history of the special gimmicked coin box in the set
that David Roth has on the market. I bought one from Jim Zachary a
while back. Jim told me that he'd been making the boxes for years and
was disappointed at David for "stealing" the idea. He even has a flyer
on the box and David entitled "Shame on you David Roth" concerning the
matter. Does anyone know how David feels about all this. I've not
actually seen his box or the notes that come with it. Does he claim
the box as his or is he just putting out a routine(s) for the box?
Charlie
Msg #18198 Dated 6:02:14 09-10-91
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: DOUG SMITH (X)
Re: FORMULA
Your tales of trying to find formulae for various chemicals, and
whether or not people should know them, reminds me of a story from my
undergraduate days. My roommate and I tried for most of our freshman
year to find the formula for LSD. We looked everywhere: the regular
library, the chemistry library, and the physics library to no avail.
Someone had gone before us and careful removed the necessary page from
each book we'd look at in our search. Just for the record, I don't do
drugs, never have and never will. But we was curious - always have
been and always will be. (We did find several recipes for atomic
bombs!) Anyway the finish to this story is that when my roommate got
to be a senior chemistry student he found a little known locked vault
in one of the research labs. Inside was the formula for LSD and a
bunch of other stuff. One of the chemistry professors had gone through
most of the books in all the libraries and remove all the information
he thought was not for public consumption!
Charlie
Msg #18199 Dated 6:02:50 09-10-91 -> 18227
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: RAMSAY
Couldn't agree more with you on the Ramsay/Galloway tape. I have
lots of material on Ramsay and bought the Galloway tape to see what
some of the effects are suppose to look like. Galloway just doesn't
have the presentation personality. Sure wish I could find a tape or
old film of Ramsay himself.
Charlie
Msg #18202 Dated 6:25:55 09-10-91 -> 18206
From: BLAKE CHATFIELD
To: ALL
Re: URI GELLER
Uri Geller vs. Randi -non "Good Morning America" this morning. In the
first 15 minutes of the second hour, as I figure it here in Colorado.
Randi bends a spoon in close up.
Msg #18203 Dated 6:44:14 09-10-91 -> 18207
From: BLAKE CHATFIELD
To: ALL
Re: URI GELLER
OOps, make that Geller-Randi appearance read: CBS THIS MORNING...Sorry
about that.
Msg #18204 Dated 7:31:03 09-10-91 18192 <--> 18225
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: TAOM CONVENTION
TAOM in Houston in early 70s was first magic convention I'd ever been
to. I saw Frank Garcia and Ron Wilson back to back, Danny Korem
running around with his vanishing aquarium, meeting Hank Lee for the
first time, meeting Becky Blaney and her dad the first time, etc.
I know the Texas Assn of Magicians knows how to put on an event. Was
at the Hyatt. I ferget what year.
Msg #18205 Dated 7:31:11 09-10-91 18193 <--> 18208
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: BOOKS AND ALL
Great Charlie. If I'd thought about it I'd of realized that you were
at TAOM. I guess my last "letter" got to you ok. Have to assume so
since you're still talking to me . On Kevin King: The guy loves
magic and does it well. He makes more money by being a funny guy and
uses magic in his act, respectfully, might I add. He closes his show
with a panto version of "The Streak" which
absolutely will put you on the floor laughing. Not blue, but really
funny. How he makes himself look like a toothless hillbilly in an
instant must of taken a lot of time in front of a mirror. He keeps
up with the older magicians and takes care of em by taking em to the
store and stuff when he's home. He takes care of the David Hoy
memorabilia. Looking 4ward to the Tamariz books. Thanks again....
Msg #18206 Dated 7:31:22 09-10-91 18202 <--> 18228
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BLAKE CHATFIELD (X)
Re: URI GELLER
I meant to watch it and was up too. Shame on me.
Msg #18207 Dated 7:31:26 09-10-91 18203 <--> 18974
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BLAKE CHATFIELD (X)
Re: URI GELLER
Did you see it? What was the gist?
Msg #18208 Dated 8:34:05 09-10-91 18205 <--> 18300
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BOOKS AND ALL
Kevin king? Does he work? Let me know?
Msg #18209 Dated 8:35:24 09-10-91 18140 <--> 18210
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
At IBM we don't schedule overlapping lecturers. This seldom happens
and at the DS was an "experiment" that we thought would be a good
one, but apparently not too many others did.
Hey, I got a request to bring Dr. Magic back yesterday!
Msg #18210 Dated 8:35:30 09-10-91 18141 <--> 18211
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
One again, UNFORTUNATELY, it really depends on the attendees
knowledge of "who is who" and their needs, ie: Kid Show stuff,
Mentalism, Comedy, Close up, as to which lectures you attend.
You can use my method. If it isn't going in the direction you like,
just get up and leave!
Msg #18211 Dated 8:35:37 09-10-91 18143 <--> 18212
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Aha.... OK, here's how you do it. You look over the schedule at
the convention. You see "Pete Biro Lecture at Noon" ... about two
hours before you either find him, or phone his hotel room and ask!
Msg #18212 Dated 8:35:43 09-10-91 18150 <--> 18238
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
One of the problemo's (OH TAPE JUST ARRIVED... ER WAS HERE AND I
JUST ARRIVED) of getting material to a program for a convention is
that the Lecturers OFTEN don't have their content set... but the
general info should be basic and available... then there is the
task of someone (a volunteer usually) writing up the information
and getting it typeset etc., etc...
.
HOWEVER..... HERE IS WHAT I WILL DO FOR THE IBM SALT LAKE. I will
send a FORM to each lecturer for the descriptions, what subject,
degree of difficulty, show and tell, etc.
.
Howsabout some of the folk online here that cry for information
giving me some guidelines as to whatcha wanna know!
.
El Poleta is in your court!
Msg #18213 Dated 8:36:00 09-10-91 18151 <--> 18215
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
One (or at least me) usually takes a direction BASED on the input.
I always do shows differently (talk, mood-wise) based on how the
audience reacts, and what they say, and who they are.... so there!
Msg #18214 Dated 8:36:06 09-10-91 18156 <--> 18269
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PINS
As soon as I get off IMP here, and can go into my Magic DB list I
will send the Andrus infor...ma...shun...
Msg #18215 Dated 8:36:11 09-10-91 18160 <--> 18216
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
If a person is to "level" does that mean their act has "died" and
then needs to be buried?
.
I plan to be as tough and hard on people, new or old, as I usually
am... and tell them that any critique is merely my fumble opinion
and they should dig up more opinions, study them all, and make
their own decisions.
.
Inkadentally, Davidoooo.... the Robot trick "ending" just do it for
your friends and family.... it is similar to someone that does
stuff at the Castle and you wouldn't want to do the same stuff for
the same crowd anyway... right? Otherwise T A will break your elbow.
Msg #18216 Dated 8:36:25 09-10-91 18162 <--> 18218
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Will go back and read the message. Being offline, I can't use the
"B" key to see what the line was... tanks.......
Msg #18217 Dated 8:36:30 09-10-91 18163 <--> 18222
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Carney Knowledge is available from Magical Publications (Mike
Caveney) and the ad is in the current Stan Allen M A G I C.
Msg #18218 Dated 8:36:35 09-10-91 18165 <--> 18261
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
GEE, be careful about mentioning "dead Frogs" here online... even
privately. You could be on T A's hired to hit list....
Msg #18219 Dated 8:36:40 09-10-91 18172 <--> 18277
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: THE MAN WHO IS T A
As soon as the snail mail reaches the shores of my town, will read
the critique of the Man Who....
.
Frankly, I liked the book, just cuz it was fun to read and there is
a good history of card magic within the pages. Naturally the real
student should also read Darwin's "annotated" and the Vernon
"revelations"....
Msg #18220 Dated 8:36:49 09-10-91 18175 <--> 18457
From: PETE BIRO
To: DOUG SMITH (X)
Re: STAGE FOG
Reminds me of the latest health line... "with all the new things
being discovered giving laboratory rats cancer... what we need is
a tougher breed or rats!"
Msg #18221 Dated 8:36:54 09-10-91 18179 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MAIL
There are several windup decks. I have a couple of them, and now
am supposed to be getting one of the KILLER "Martin Poker-Size"
decks back from a source in a complex three-way swap! When you get
a chance, gimme a good description.
.
Worked out some nice things with the houlette you shipped in... am
going to do some more thinking on "improved" handling this week,
to make it PRACTICAL and easily DO-ABLE...
Msg #18222 Dated 8:37:05 09-10-91 18180 <--> 18270
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
I would rather know if the lecture was any good, or at least was
going to be fun to go see. I only look for attitudes, possible
inspiration and find that detail content, moves, etc. are the
least important.
.
Working with the Frog yesterday I showed him a complete card routine
that I used to do for $$ in close up shows that literally was
move and sleight free, just subtle ways to ENTERTAIN.... all you
would need to do in a lecture is SEE the routine and know what
the names of the Commercially Available, low price, tricks are and
the key, the lecture, was on ATTITUDE, AUDIENCE MANAGMENT... things
like the simple old CUT FORCE.... but HOW TO TO IT SO THEY DON'T
REMEMBER JUST CUTTING THE DECK and then seeing the bottom card.
Timing, audience managment... misdirection if you will.
.
Here's a fun gag for ALL.... (NEWCOMERS TAKE NOTE)... The Frog
was trying to work out a "card in wallet" he had found some really
good looking wallets with a nice zipper compartment.... there was
a deck of cards laying nearby. For a few seconds, while he was
looking away I did something to one of the cards (a joker... as I
needed a dupe and there are two jokers in a deck) (this alone is
a little realized, and to my knowledge NEVER BEEN BROUGHT UP
principle... a dupe in a real, new ungaffed deck. (How about it Max,
do you now of anyone else thinking of this?)
Anyway... I won't tell the set up... you just follow the effect, and
if you can't figure out what I did... (normally I would say TOUGH
BANNANAS BOZO, but in our NEW attitude here, (OK I AM BEING
FACICIOUS, BUT HEY, THAT'S ME) anyway... if you don't know what to
do, just ask!
.
Effect. I have him take a card (for some strange cooincidence it
was a Joker!) (Koran Force) I said, "sign your name on it"...
I put it into deck ndfiddled about (moving it to the top) and
feinted a palm and showed hand on both sides, like front and back
palming... remember this was for a magician... with real people
you wouldn't do that... then I picked up the wallet that I had not
gone near.... and opened the zipper compartment.... I slowly
brought out a card.... asked him to name the card he chose (the
card I brought out was back to him)... he said, "The Joker"....
I turned the card over (it was a few feet away from him and not in
his eyes focus area...) and waved it about saying... "and here in
the wallet was your joker.... (then said as I moved the card right
up to his face, but not too close....) "And is there something
written on the card?" He say " yes ".... and I say, "What is written
on the card?" He say, "MY NAME".... he falls over laffing, the
audience is BAFFLED....
.
BECAUSE... WRITTEN ON THE CARD ARE THE WORDS.... 'MY NAME'
.
So you see... when I say what is written he say what he reads....
.
That is not NEW it has been used before... but I like it!
.
I just thought... you could also have written on the card something
like.... "Holy cow... it's my signature".... whatefer you do....
do something you think is good.
.
Bye
Msg #18223 Dated 8:38:03 09-10-91 18184 <--> 18273
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HEAVEN!!!!!
I did not sit... I was laying on top of the fax board, three 9600
baud modems and a keyboard. That is why my typing was much better.
Msg #18224 Dated 8:38:09 09-10-91 18191 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: CARNEY, ETC.
Why, are the Oilers going to buy tickets to watch the playoffs?
No, don't got Whit's routine. Do have two sets of his four ring
routine tho. Wanna swap? The Raiders did come back and win this
last weekend.
Msg #18225 Dated 8:38:15 09-10-91 18192 <--> 18278
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: TAOM CONVENTION
I had some comments from others that didn't think the TAOM was as
good as they usually are... but hey, each person sees with different
eyes... I heard about Marcom's accident... whew... not fun, I sure
wouldn't want to fall into a pit like that... Lucky he didn't get
severely injured.
.
Yep Tomsoni has the knowledge and the ability of a dozen others.
.
You might like my Intro that I used on him last year.
.
"Ladies and Gentlemen, it is acknowledged that the late Fred Kaps
was the best "all-around" magician of our time. The person I am
about to introduce would surely inherit that mantle... if it wasn't
for his personality! John Thompson."
.
The loudest laff came from John himself on that one....
Msg #18226 Dated 8:38:33 09-10-91 18197 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: DAVID ROTH BOX
Since I haven't bought the book and box combo, I cannot comment on
what David says... but did recently see the box itself. And now
that you bring it up... it really seems to me that the principle
feels very familiar. I seem to have been aware of the idea but
couldn't really put a finger on the time frame and/or place....
Hmmmmm. Interesting.
Msg #18227 Dated 8:38:41 09-10-91 18199 <--> 18343
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: RAMSAY
Guess you will jsut have to close your eyes and dream about what you
think Ramsay was like... if you write some of the English lads, you
might find something. I wonder if Harry STanley or Lewis Ganson
ever filmed him. For some obscure reason, I think I did see some
film on him.... maybe it is just MY imagination....
.
I had a set of cups (2 like in the book) spun of aluminum and keep
wanting to learn the routine... not enuf days in the century.
Msg #18228 Dated 8:38:51 09-10-91 18202 <--> 18973
From: PETE BIRO
To: BLAKE CHATFIELD (X)
Re: URI GELLER
Blake, thanks for the info.... unfortunatley I overslept the early
TV schedule.
.
Hows the magic scene in Colorado?
Msg #18229 Dated 8:38:58 09-10-91
From: PETE BIRO
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: ANDRUS PINS
Ee;18156
Bruce (and anyone else) I can't find my address book, but for getting
in touch with Jerry Andrus, just use the old PHONE>>>>
his number is: 503-928-8295. I'm sure he can take care of your
request. He is a great guy and good to talk with!
Msg #18232 Dated 9:12:37 09-10-91 -> 18236
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Well, I can see that you are quite experienced in the high pressure
atmosphere and strict traditions of the Nashville Music Business
world. Does this mean no more pink baseball caps?
Msg #18233 Dated 9:12:50 09-10-91 -> 18235
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
Gadzooks! I thought for a moment I could hear "Old Black Joe" from
the PC speaker, but it was just a wobble in my hard disk. I have
sponsored most everyone else, so I guess Harry would be OK.
Howsomever, that would be a most unlikely move for him to make.
Msg #18234 Dated 9:13:02 09-10-91 -> 18306
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: NEW COIN IDEA
I think any visit in the next month would require delicate balancing
of schedules. Maybe a fly by just as you have touched down to pick
up a new suitcase of fresh clothes for you next trip. Parking Lot??
Does this mean they are gonna have a Metro stop out there?
Msg #18235 Dated 9:13:14 09-10-91 -> 18305
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
I know you music types...I figured you wouldn't know Jack 'bout
downtown N'ville. It really is two cities there isn't it. You would
enjoy Helga's...maybe if you went down to the Alley sometime. I hear
d a rumor that her place might not be there anymore.
Msg #18236 Dated 9:13:26 09-10-91 -> 18244
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I don't know bout Steely Dan, but I think a Beatle also beat you to
Maui. I recall flying over his place on the island. Why don't you
go to the Big Island instead. Then your friends could come visit
you! Krayburge would fit right in and there is some great golf there
also. It is my favorite of all the islands.
Msg #18237 Dated 9:13:41 09-10-91 -> 18241
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEOS
We do that in Virginia as well...howsomever, we run out of Jowl
pretty quick and then have to use fatback. A little knacklin' corn
pone on the side goes good with those peas and jowl.
Msg #18238 Dated 9:13:51 09-10-91 -> 18239
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Denver is OK except Elway is hard to take sometimes. Pretty good
game last night with Dallas. First time I have watched most of a
game for quite awhile. The Skins might actually do some good this
season.
Msg #18239 Dated 9:14:07 09-10-91 -> 18242
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEOS
No question about it, Lecturers need to define themselves as well.
Some are not teachers, some are not performers. Probably room for
both. A good lecturer could prepare his audience both before the
lecture by having good advance materials to explain what his lecture
is about and also at the onset of his lecture. I have also wondered
why so few lecturers take advantage of the audiovisual aids available
to them. I recall a few that used film, but that is about it.
Msg #18240 Dated 9:14:25 09-10-91 -> 18284
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: NEW MAGAZINE
I am sure the ad revenue was one of the primary factors in changing
format. You probably have a point in that they might have fared
better if they had set the rates a bit lower at the beginning and
moved up as the subscription base increased.
You might be interested to note that the LR has the largest
"subscription" base but the lowest ad rates. As a not for profit we
have to be careful on the ad revenue versus production cost.
Msg #18241 Dated 9:14:41 09-10-91 -> 18246
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Scotty told me about it awhile back. I will be interested to see
how he is going to pack all the props so he can find them to do the
effect. If you are going, ask for the Dice Stacking Trick or the
Pill's Trick. You can also stump him by asking for the Cocktail
Shaker and case with the enclosed close up pad (one of the first
things he ever did). What do you win if you stump him? A photo of
him in his Speedo?
I would like to attend but will be in beautiful downtown Dayton for
a IBM management team meeting.
Msg #18242 Dated 9:15:06 09-10-91 -> 18247
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Exactly! ...and it should appear as if the hard copy had just been
printed out on a dot matrix. Could be selected messages...reviews t
hat haven't appeared elsewhere or his summary of the month's rambling
s from the various cliques, and other unfriendly, hard nosed snobs on
the board.
Seriously, I do think it would be a good idea.
Msg #18243 Dated 9:15:24 09-10-91 -> 18258
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
Thanks...I understand those are for the Brit Cap and Pence. I think
Davenport's sold the Ramsay set with the Farrelli booklet and not
with a separate set of instructions. I am also pretty sure they used
the old pence for the effect as well.
Msg #18244 Dated 9:15:34 09-10-91 -> 18280
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Who knows, he may still be hanging in that closet in Boliva. Has the
story about his founding of the sports equipment business come out
yet?
Msg #18245 Dated 9:15:44 09-10-91 -> 18255
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: COINS ACROSS
Lack of closure or whatever you want to call it, can result in your
psychological tension having considerable impact on your thoughts and
other matters through the night. Yes, indeedly the ole heart will
certainly keep beating under those circumstances.
Msg #18246 Dated 9:15:59 09-10-91 -> 18281
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
There has been some pressure from the Board for Joe to bring back
some more emphasis on close up for the last few years. However, the
stage events are very popular with the crowd and have a wider appeal
than does close up. I doubt that the DMS will ever return to the
early years when close up was king. Hopefully, 1993 will see close
up featured in the contest and presented with proper video aids and
tiered seating. Meanwhile, we need to focus on 1992.
Msg #18247 Dated 9:16:16 09-10-91 -> 18257
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I agree with most of what you say concerning lectures. However, I
really don't think knowing what the convention lecturers are going
to cover would makes much difference on one's decision to attend a
convention or not. In fact, we have found that the reputation of the
convention and its location have much more to do with attendance than
any of the talent bookings. I am going to attempt to solicit info
form lecturers at future I.B.M. conventions and devise some practical
means of conveying the information to attendees, but it is more along
the lines of providing a service than something I feel will impact
attendance at either the conventions or the lectures.
Msg #18248 Dated 9:16:43 09-10-91 -> 18334
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
I certainly did not mean to imply in anyway that the creator of
MAGIC! would ever release anything other than a thoroughly Beta
tested version of anything. Howsomever, that certainly ain't the
case with lots of other software developers.
Msg #18249 Dated 9:16:54 09-10-91 -> 18286
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TRIX
Involving those with dislayed cleavage in one's act is not
necessarily done with intent to embarrass (albeit too often the case)
. It could be done in such a way as to pay homage to said display
thereby fulfilling what could have been the goal of the displayee in
the first place. Done properly, the addition of cleavage could
enhance many magic acts. Howeve, mbrrassment of spectators for
any reason should be avoided.
Speaking of such effects....what did you think of Sheet's approach
during the Baltimore Comedy Club show?
Msg #18252 Dated 9:17:53 09-10-91 -> 18338
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
Pete's personality would certainly cover most anything. After his
initial success with "Garage Magic" , he could specialize with
"Garage Gimmicks", "Attic Antics" and "Cleverness in the Closet".
Msg #18253 Dated 9:18:03 09-10-91 -> 18287
From: BILL WELLS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: FLASHING FINGERTIPS
DMS is March 19,20, & 21st, 1992 at the Trop.
Msg #18255 Dated 9:18:21 09-10-91 -> 18256
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: COINS ACROSS
I seem to recall that we had a last minute no show from an illusion
act. I can't think of the name, but he also dropped out of the DMS
contest at the last minute if I recall correctly. This forced a
shift from opening to closing spot for Dickens.
Msg #18256 Dated 9:18:33 09-10-91 -> 18289
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: COINS ACROSS
Yes...I noticed that you answered the first batch of messages with
one word. Personally, I think you are trying to form a clique with
yourself. If you are successful, you will become badly inbred and
probably mutant as well. You may become stuffy and protective as
well....and God Forbid! You may start talking to newcomers and
offering helpful one-liner magic tips.
Msg #18257 Dated 9:18:51 09-10-91 -> 18282
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Like yourself, I use IMP. Ergo, I have no idea who is in charge or
what we are about to "do" in your message 17948.
Msg #18258 Dated 9:19:00 09-10-91 -> 18285
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
You is wrong. Tab sent those to me. NOT for Cylinder and Coins. I
think Davenports probably sold the set with the Farrelli booklet.
Msg #18259 Dated 9:19:05 09-10-91 -> 18291
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Are you going to post this spectacular photo as a gif file for those
with super VGA?
(mind you I would have little interest since I am a leg man)
...on second thought, are you sure this isn't a photo of the Goodyear
blimp at its mooring?
Msg #18260 Dated 9:19:20 09-10-91 -> 18339
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: THE T A WATERS VIDEO
In Tabby's case, I think his forebearers were more likely further
south and earlier than the Mayflower.
Msg #18261 Dated 9:19:28 09-10-91 18096 <--> 18263
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
David...your message #18096 concerning "Bad Vibes" is most
disheartening. Since you posted this, I assume it is not considered
one or two disgruntled types, but rather is widespread enough that
you feel it is a valid concern. For the most part, I must admit that
I am at a loss to understand why anyone would feel the board is
"cliquey" (everyone seems to talk to everyone else), protective (in
fact, magic seems to be picked apart on a daily basis rather than
being protected), or stuffy (unless they are talking about El Biro
and the Tabman). I see newcomers not only welcomed but offered
advice and help on questions. I also see resident celebs since as
Max, T.A., and Pete answer all questions posed to them and often
offering advice even when not specifically asked. As you know, I
have expressed concern that the board has the potential to become too
inbred and we have had some discussion of approaches to avoid that
happening.
For the record, let me say that I will be happy to respond to anyone
(except Biro) on any areas in which I might have expertise. I have
sort of tried to handle the questions concerning magic organizations
and conventions since I have some experience there....however, I
would be willing to help in other areas if need be. I would also
point out that all users should take care NOT to take all messages so
eriousy!! There are some fabulously talented people on this board
that have absolutely wonderful senses of humor. Much of what appears
serious on the surface is in fact often v-e-r-y funny!
I suggest you stop worrying, go to sleep, and put away the Pepto
Bismal. Everyone (including newcomers) should just relax, have fun,
and NOT be afraid to state your opinions or how you feel about things
....this is a unique forum and is the ONLY place some of these folks
ever talk to each other...everybody put your noses back in joint and
join in...roll with the punches if need be...but for goodness sake
remember to bring along your sense of humor.
Msg #18263 Dated 9:28:43 09-10-91 18189 <--> 18264
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Well, we are working on the plan to have sections - then the system can
be many things and people can tune into the ones they are most
interested in.
Msg #18264 Dated 9:31:54 09-10-91 18215 <--> 18265
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I think we can be tough and still respect the other person and their
feelings. If you were in a swiming pool with a friend and he asked you
for water, you'd probably either splaxh him or deliver a one liner. If
you were in the desert and the guy, obviously dehydrated, crawled up to
you and begged for water, it would probably not be the time for one
liners.
Yeah, I GOT the message about the ending - I plan to change it
completely.
Msg #18265 Dated 9:36:05 09-10-91 18261 <--> 18292
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Thanks, Bill. Yes, the concerns did arise from more than one or two
people. They felt that when they had asked questions or offered
suggestions that they were sometimes pounced on. I felt it was
important that their concerns be addressed.
Msg #18267 Dated 9:43:07 09-10-91 -> 18527
From: BRUCE SANDERCOCK
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PINS
Thanks for your reply. Pete did come thru with Jerry's phone number. I
understand Jerry makes the best Linking Pins out there. Dan Garrett has
a great routine on his latest Video utilizing the Andrus pins.
.
Yes, I will be in Richmond next Wednesday evening. I will be arriving
US Air flight 347, and due to arrive at 3:56PM. Bill Wells tells me you
are quite a distance from Richmond, however, would very much enjoy
visiting with you should you be in the area.
.
I head home Thursday afternoon, and off to Hawaii Friday morning for a
weeks R & R.
.
Trust the spaces are filling up for your January shin-dig!
Msg #18269 Dated 9:46:06 09-10-91 18214 <--> 18358
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PINS
OK, thanks - apparently Bruce really wants those Linking Pins.
Msg #18270 Dated 9:48:44 09-10-91 18180 <--> 18271
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
I'm rather glad that just before the pilot rolls the big jet down the
runway he goes over the checklist. The checklist should NOT be an
attempt to categorize the human element, just a handy guide to seeing
if everything is in the lecture review.
Msg #18271 Dated 9:55:07 09-10-91 18222 <--> 18279
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Pete really had me going with this bit because I thought I knew that
there was NO WAY that my signed card was in that wallet. So when he
produced it and I read "MY NAME" out loud it was an absolute killer.
Like I said before - Pete has GOT to do a "Baker's Dozen" tapes for Joe
Stevens.
Msg #18273 Dated 10:00:23 09-10-91 18184 <--> 18302
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: HEAVEN!!!!!
Nathan not only enjoyed the visit, but got a whole new concept for his
act. Pete says that as soon as it is all together he is booking him
for SLC. What I didn't tell Pete is that Nathan is also working on
another effect special for that show - he's going to steal Dave
Williamson's underware and drape it on Roger's xylophone.
Needless to say, the visit was great.
Msg #18274 Dated 10:03:57 09-10-91 18186 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PLEASE FORWARD TO PHIL
I felt that I was going with the flow of Willmarth's comment. I was
not attempting to get a "rise" out of Max but I figured that since it
was unlikely that he would repond to the comment via a letter to
Linking Ring, that he might do so here.
Msg #18275 Dated 10:07:44 09-10-91 18187 <--> 18531
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ANOTHER MAGIC! FIRST
MAGIC! was mentioned in "From the Lota Bowl" in the September Linking
Ring.
Msg #18276 Dated 10:01:21 09-10-91 -> 18296
From: MIKE KING
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: STUFF FOR ACT
Hi Tabmeister. Just got back from the mailbox and got your letter.
Thanks. Shows great minds think alike. And occasionally my mind
thinks like a great one. I had already picked out the Knife Vanish.
Thought I might adapt it to use with crossbow. Just wonder if the
constant loading and firing would get boring. Love the plex-glass
thing though. I think with the pight presentation. Shooting an arrow
thru this would have a real good effect. I could do it from about six
feet. No chance of missing. The trick is the glass is unharmed, noyt
that I can hit the target from a great distance. Thanks for sending
this along. If you were to build such a prop. How much would you
charge a life-long friend like me to do it. You can send me a quote.
I really think this would play big done right. Have a great opener.
That is right I have finally settled on one. Look great and cheap!!!!
Will send details, or better yet am building this week. Will video
tape and send a copy for you to see. Does not involve weapons, but a
strong opener and production of magicain (ME). Talk at ya soon.
MIKE.
Msg #18277 Dated 10:08:53 09-10-91 18188 <--> 18297
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: THE MAN WHO IS T A
I think you will find T A's review to be most interesting indeed!
Msg #18278 Dated 10:10:49 09-10-91 18192 <--> 18377
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: TAOM CONVENTION
Thank you for your review of TOAM, Charlie! Really appreciate it.
Msg #18279 Dated 11:10:11 09-10-91 18164 <--> 18295
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Don't know if John Carney's address has been given, but here goes.
It's 4306 1/2 Perlite, LA, Ca. 90039, phone (818) 242-7629.
Hope this doesn't start another Abbott string.
Msg #18280 Dated 13:36:48 09-10-91 18232 <--> 18304
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
He will probably be wearing Pink Football Caps... and lower case?
Msg #18281 Dated 13:36:52 09-10-91 18237 <--> 18309
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I don't want to offend you, but where do you hold the break with
peas and jowl?
Msg #18282 Dated 13:36:58 09-10-91 18238 <--> 18283
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
The Skins? Cheesh... anybody can beat Dallas... when do they play
a football team? Like Houston or Oakland? (I know the Raiders are
listed from LA, but they are owned by the guys here in Oakland!)
Msg #18283 Dated 13:37:04 09-10-91 18239 <--> 18321
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
They just don't try to sell themselves. I know I am guilt to. I
figger I am so famous that it takes care of itself.
Msg #18284 Dated 13:37:09 09-10-91 18240 <--> 18310
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: NEW MAGAZINE
Yoo talking about M A G I C "the magazine" ? -- How can we say if
they have "fared well or bad?" We don't know Stan's goals and his
plan. He might be planning to lose X amount for xx of issues just
to look right, then when the subscription base is set start putting
more advertising emphasis.
.
Magic is kinda like photo magazines... you get 'em to read the ads
in many cases. As opposed to TIME where the ads are of little
interest. Hmmmmm.
Msg #18285 Dated 13:37:20 09-10-91 18243 <--> 18471
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
But he wore a funny Cap with his Pence. So I have been told.
Msg #18286 Dated 13:37:24 09-10-91 18249 <--> 18335
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
I know this wan't directed to me... but Sheets' handling(?) was so
good I wish I had thought of it. I do use the Bra trick and it
will be difficult to not want to do what he does. BUT I HAVE HEARD
HERE THAT THOU SHALT NOT STEAL. But I have a bit he would kill for
with the same trick. Hah... me bb ee a swap some day....
Too bad... oh, wait, can FAX you the photo of the gal that is
100 - 24 - 36...
Msg #18287 Dated 13:37:34 09-10-91 18253 <--> 18448
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: FLASHING FINGERTIPS
Howabout Legerdemain Lecture on the Lawn?
Msg #18289 Dated 13:37:45 09-10-91 18255 <--> 18290
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: COINS ACROSS
right... who wasit?
Msg #18290 Dated 13:37:49 09-10-91 18256 <--> 18333
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: COINS ACROSS
No
more
on
liners,
OK?
Msg #18291 Dated 13:37:58 09-10-91 18259 <--> 18458
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
Check your fax later.... alone and in the dark.
Msg #18292 Dated 13:38:02 09-10-91 18263 <--> 18293
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
If you have different sections will it waste my time, in that I
don't want to MISS ANYTHING... I WANT IT ALL.......
Msg #18293 Dated 13:38:07 09-10-91 18264 <--> 18294
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Guy crawling across the desert (this happened on my last photo job
out there)... comes to a guy, says, "Water, do you have water?" Guy
says, "No but I got some nice Neckties!"... guy keeps crawling.
Comes to another guy.... "Water, water, help, I need water..."
Guy says, "No water here, but hey, I got some neckties...." Argh...
Guy (first guy) crawls up to the door of the Magic Castle... knocks,
guy answers, "Water, help, I need water, do you have any?" Castle
host says, "Yep, we got plenty of water, but you can't come in
without a Necktie!"
Msg #18294 Dated 13:38:18 09-10-91 18265 <--> 18311
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I have thought about this a bunch more, have had a nights sleep and
think....
.
SORRY, I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE ME... I think subconsciously I will
feel censored now and probably will, but I really don't think I
pounce on anyone with bad intent!
.
I also think, like listening to RUSH LIMBAUGH.... you can't just
listen to him a few times... you got to put up with his stuff and
hang in for awhile... and get used to how to take him. You don't
have to agree or disagree... you can just listen to the crazy guy
for the listening.
.
And.... part of being online for many MIGHT BE to just see what
other people think and say to each other.
.
Kinda like lookin over someone's shoulder while they read a letter,
and on here, tho, you won't get caught peeking....
.
Anyway, when anybody reads what I is saying and you feel pounced
on POUNCE BACK... HIT HARD... keep the thinking going.
.
Terry Seabrooke often says, "People stop thinking too soon" when
working on their magic.
Msg #18295 Dated 13:38:44 09-10-91 18271 <--> 18298
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Fooled ya with my creative Memory... hahahahah....
Msg #18296 Dated 13:38:49 09-10-91 18276 <--> 18318
From: PETE BIRO
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: STUFF FOR ACT
Instead of constant re loading cross bows, why not have a rack with
a hafa dozen pre loaded? Heh, can be different gaffs... think about
it?
Msg #18297 Dated 13:38:55 09-10-91 18277 <--> 18329
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: THE MAN WHO IS T A
Just finished watching T As video. Some incredibly simple modus
operandi to his work, easy to do, just dress 'em up and you got a
handfull of miracles.
.
Got to work on the Curse version he showed... gave me an even
stronger idea....
Msg #18298 Dated 13:39:04 09-10-91 18279 <--> 18301
From: PETE BIRO
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
I think you meant "Perlita" din'cha? Argh... got a citation from
the city that my shrubs are over the sidewalk, got to go back out
and trimmem sum mo.... foooooooooooo
Msg #18300 Dated 13:53:40 09-10-91 18208 <--> 18396
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BOOKS AND ALL
Kevin King works. He's a funny guy. If you want his number lemme kno.
Msg #18301 Dated 13:53:45 09-10-91 18222 <--> 18313
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Amen, bro. Am scrambling to catch a late flight to Atlantic City to
harrah's where I have a midnight meeting with Latin Elvis. Not much
time for writing stuff today as am finishing up three tables while
I type. Waiting for some glue to dry and since I use "Hot Stuff" it
don't take long.
Msg #18302 Dated 13:53:55 09-10-91 18223 <--> 18530
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HEAVEN!!!!!
So Frog has three 9600 jobbers now, huh?
Msg #18304 Dated 13:54:09 09-10-91 18232 <--> 18308
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
No, more pink ball caps. I just got a new shipment in but they have
to be washed four or five times besfore I wear em. Just so they look
OLD.
Msg #18305 Dated 13:54:16 09-10-91 18233 <--> 18307
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
Well, I saw Harry Houdini in LR this time with Dr. Wells as sponsor.
Somebody at the LR has a sense of humor.....YOU?
Msg #18306 Dated 13:54:20 09-10-91 18234 <--> 18478
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: NEW COIN IDEA
I'll be in Music City over this weekend and then here until Oct 6 or
so SOOOOO lets get together...
Msg #18307 Dated 13:54:25 09-10-91 18235 <--> 18331
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
I'll check for Helga's this weekend and mail you some apple pie
by book (bulk) rate.
Msg #18308 Dated 13:54:30 09-10-91 18236 <--> 18330
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Maybe the last stop will be the big island then after we run out
of things to do in Nashville.
Msg #18309 Dated 13:54:35 09-10-91 18237 <--> 18332
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Yeah man. You got it. Cracklin' bread. Yuuuum.
Msg #18310 Dated 13:54:39 09-10-91 18240 <--> 18397
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: NEW MAGAZINE
I'm trying to get out the door for the airport in a few minutes and
you and Pete send me all these great messages. I shoulda waited til
I got back to sign on, but what the heck. I like to check in.
Msg #18311 Dated 13:54:45 09-10-91 18261 <--> 18325
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Hoohrah!
Msg #18313 Dated 14:11:00 09-10-91 18298 <--> 18328
From: MARVIN STERN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Right again. Mi mashine cant speel.
Msg #18314 Dated 14:35:20 09-10-91 -> 18350
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: CES, LV
Just sent away my pre-registration form for CES Las Vegas.
Are you going again this year, or is it too early for you to know?
Msg #18315 Dated 14:56:46 09-10-91 -> 18351
From: MARVIN STERN
To: ALL
Re: GOOD NEWS
Today's LA Times has an article, pagB2, regarding Super Pig.
He admits that it does have a pig face.
Al DAvis, gen mgr does say that lots of members have complained.
Also stated in the article was that there was/is an agreement that it
could be taken down at any time.
After all that, however, the article doesn't make clear if it will be
removed or not.
Msg #18316 Dated 15:00:26 09-10-91 -> 18398
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: ALL
Re: CARNEY IN EUROPE????
AVID LICHTMAN
JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
MAGIC!-NL Tue 10 Sep 91 03:26
Arnaud Van.Rietschoten posted the following msg:
I remember John Carney from a lecture he did a few years ago here
in Holland at the Magic Art Center. At that time I was also very
impressed by his 'smooth' effects, good thinking and very
entertaining presentation. The good words about his new lecture
and book make that I would love to see him again. Can anyone of
you guys check if and when John is having plans for another tour
here in Europe??
Plase let me know.
Thanks
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, +31-23-388725 (2:0/0)
---
Msg #18317 Dated 15:14:24 09-10-91 -> 18378
From: MARVIN STERN
To: ALL
Re: GOOD NEWS UPDATE
More re: message #18315 and the sculpture at The Magic Castle.
After reading the article again, I see that the caption under the photo
states "........before it was decided that the sculpture has to go."
Guess it is going.
Msg #18318 Dated 16:02:21 09-10-91 18296 <--> 18532
From: MIKE KING
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: STUFF FOR ACT
Nice idea. But at $300.00 plus a crossbow, will have to work up to
affording it. Still, a very nice idea. Thanks!!!!
Msg #18319 Dated 16:06:18 09-10-91 18195 <--> 18399
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: TV
Television, in the wrong hands, can be a deadly medium. Video,
however, is a totally different medium - it just uses some of the same
tools.
Msg #18320 Dated 16:07:52 09-10-91 18194 <--> 18400
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: CLASSIC
I been using the classic bovine patty method for years - you might say
that it has earned me a substantial part of both my income and my
reputation. A friend of mine does a card location using fake bovine
pattys - it is a great effect, but it took him days to make great
looking props.
Msg #18321 Dated 16:15:49 09-10-91 18209 <--> 18322
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Even if the lectures don't overlap with each other, they overlap with
other things that someone might want to do, so info would still be
nice. Really, I'm surprised that this simple suggestion has drawn so
much resistance. With this much resistance to adding a line or two on
a program, I'd hate to think what it would take to suggest that someone
trade in his tux for more contemporary clothes!
As to Dr. Magic - I didn't know he was out on parole yet.
Msg #18322 Dated 16:19:47 09-10-91 18211 <--> 18323
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Yeah, but how likely would it be that I would attend any convention
that would have Pete Biro lecturing? I hear that the guy only does one
lecture every other year and that it is always held in Indianapolis.
Sure wish I could get a TAPE of him!
Msg #18323 Dated 16:21:14 09-10-91 18212 <--> 18324
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Subject, degree of difficulty, format - show and tell, etc., will notes
and/or video-notes be available. Those sound like some of the basics.
Msg #18324 Dated 16:23:40 09-10-91 18247 <--> 18344
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I meant that it might draw more attendees to the individual lecture,
not to the convention itself, which, of course, could be an item of
interest to the lecturer.
In the case of the Castle I think it most certainly COULD make a
difference as the audience drives in for the one specific lecture.
Msg #18325 Dated 16:27:27 09-10-91 18292 <--> 18326
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
The way the sections work on MAGIC! you will see NO DIFFERENCE when
reading messages - unlike other systems, you do NOT need to go to
different sections - MAGIC! will take care of your preferences for you.
Anyone who decides to turn a section off will simply not see the
messages in that section. Again, an easy thing to do.
The only major difference will be that when you start a new message, in
addition to being asked for a Subject, you will be asked for a Section.
Msg #18326 Dated 16:30:35 09-10-91 18293 <--> 18327
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
AARRGGHH!! (tm - Biro). Somehow the moment I posted the water in the
desert analogy, I just knew there would be a joke in there somewhere
for you.
Msg #18327 Dated 16:33:31 09-10-91 18294 <--> 18352
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I think we want the Biro delivered straight from the jar - we don't
need him to feel censored. I think it is just a matter of a little
thought and consideration before pouncing. Sorta like looking both
ways before crossing the street.
Msg #18328 Dated 16:35:24 09-10-91 18279 <--> 18342
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Thanks for the address, Marvin. Far as I know, you were the first to
post it - hopefully there won't be 1000 more folks who do.
Msg #18329 Dated 16:36:57 09-10-91 18297 <--> 18533
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: THE MAN WHO IS T A
I think you hit the nail on the head - a very good description of The
T A Waters Video. T A told me that the Curse version is his favorite
on the tape. Lots of good stuff.
Msg #18330 Dated 16:40:09 09-10-91 18244 <--> 18440
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I think the story about Bolivia and the sports equipment business is
still under wraps - shouldn't be too long though. I think there are a
couple of guys who are going down there to exhume his corpse.
Msg #18331 Dated 16:43:35 09-10-91 18305 <--> 18477
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
Son of a gun! El Tabbo ain't kiddin'! You ARE sponsoring Harry
Houdini for membership in the IBM!
Msg #18332 Dated 16:45:53 09-10-91 18246 <--> 18467
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Well, I will plan to be there for '92 whatever you guys come up with.
I enjoy the stage shows, but I also like the close-up lectures and
learning sessions. Lots of good people and lots of good stuff.
Msg #18333 Dated 16:49:59 09-10-91 18245 <--> 18474
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: COINS ACROSS
Excatly the idea! I find it more restful to let my mind ruminate on
the plot of a fiction story than to let it work on the trials and
tribulations of the day. Seems to work. And, lest you form a desire
to point out that there is no species of frog which is classed as a
ruminant, the rumination is mental and frogs is quite adept at mental
effects.
Msg #18334 Dated 16:55:00 09-10-91 18248 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: DENIGRATING MAGIC'S IMAGE
Actually, software developers always do a Beta test - just that some of
'em have a different idea of the size and shape of the Beta test panel.
And you are right, some of 'em use all their customers for that! IBM
had a Beta test panel of 7,000 people for DOS 5.0 and apparently the
strategy worked - I'm hearing very little complaint about the product.
They did do one thing though - they planted a date in the Betas that
kept reminding you to do the upgrade to the release version - drove me
nuts for a couple of weeks.
Msg #18335 Dated 16:57:37 09-10-91 18249 <--> 18472
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
I thik=nk it all depends on who is displaying who's cleavage and for
what purpose. Sheets approach seemed to work for him.
Msg #18338 Dated 17:02:51 09-10-91 18252 <--> 18374
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
Actually, we could probably do a Baker's Dozen Biro tapes like they did
Back to the Future II and III - do 'em all at once - just follow the
Biro around for a few days and then cut everything into the right
rooms.
Msg #18339 Dated 17:04:51 09-10-91 18260 <--> 18893
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: THE T A WATERS VIDEO
Hmmmm..... That does explain the tatoo he's got that reads "Roanoke."
Msg #18342 Dated 17:17:14 09-10-91 18222 <--> 18403
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
I hate to be the one to tell you, but the idea of using a joker as a
"natural" duplicate is older than most of your jokes.
Msg #18343 Dated 17:17:53 09-10-91 18227 <--> 18371
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RAMSAY
At least one film clip exists, a silent sequence in which Ramsey does
a vanish of a small object. After he does it, he smiles and says
something. It drove John Carney crazy, so he studied the footage over
and over, and finally managed to figure out what Ramsey was saying,
with a Scottish burr: "Y'dinna see where it went, now did y'laddie!"
Msg #18344 Dated 17:19:37 09-10-91 18239 <--> 18346
From: MAX MAVEN
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Few lectures would particularly benefit from audiovisual aids. The one
idea I've used over the years that has occasionally been helpful for
lecturing to larger groups is over-sized props to make a given point
clear and visible (Gaetan Bloom has also made good use of this).
Msg #18346 Dated 17:29:50 09-10-91 18323 <--> 18355
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
"Subject" is obviously a useful piece of information. "Degree of
Difficulty" is a judgment call, and a basis which few use to decide
whether to attend a lecture. Availability of notes of some sort is so
standard as to make it only useful to mention the rare case when none
will be offered.
Msg #18348 Dated 17:31:20 09-10-91 -> 18405
From: MAX MAVEN
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ZELLA
I never got around to providing the Zella story. In the 1950s U.F.
Grant became concerned that he was releasing too much material on the
market, and possibly reaching a saturation point. So, he decided to
invent a mythical magician under whose name he could put out some of
his material. For this he chose the name Frank Zella. It was the guy
who ran the dry-cleaning shop down the street.
Msg #18350 Dated 17:34:12 09-10-91 18314 <--> 18444
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: CES, LV
I'm going to send in the forms for CES and will probably be there. I
like to see all the new stuff, but lately the meeting has grown so
large and bureaucratic that I have skipped a few years. Maybe we get
with VanVranken and a few others and hold a MAGIC! convention during
the off hours.
Msg #18351 Dated 17:35:30 09-10-91 18315 <--> 18492
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: GOOD NEWS
I'm going to track down that article right now! Thanks for the info -
I'm kinda glad to hear that the SuperPig controversy made the L.A.
Times. Will keep the plastic explosive handy though.
Msg #18352 Dated 17:41:56 09-10-91 18112 <--> 18356
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Tabby...you are the singlemost reason that I find it so difficult to
understand what the bad vibes message is all about....Pete told me
about the board when it first appeared...it just took me a year to
get around to signing on. When I did, I found it to be prehaps the
friendliest BBS (I know you don't like that David...but under the
new rules you can't slam me for using it...heh..heh) that I have ever
been on and I have been on many, many bulletin boards over the years.
I offer that private message have been the downfall of MANY boards.
Of course, there are messages of a personal nature that should be
private, but it is easy to fall into the trap of making most of one's
messages private rather than open. It is one of the great virtues of
this board that much of the message base seems to be in the open and
free for commenting upon by all.
Msg #18355 Dated 17:43:05 09-10-91 18120 <--> 18357
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Watch it....that is an inside cliquest, snobby remark about lectures
and lecturers. Everyone knows that people attending magic
conventions are NOT knowledgeable about agic.
Seriously, while we do have STAGE magic lectures during the day and
CLOSE UP magic lectures at night at the I.B.M. and that is info of a
sort, we do make a practice of providing additional information when
the lecture is a specialized topic. For example, from the Baltimore
program:
11:00 am - Noon Kahn/Siebert Fire & Smoke Lecture..Maryland Ball-
room.
- or from the 1990 San Diego program:
Robert Bleumle - The Magic of Dr. Jaks - Big 3 Lecture
Gene Anderson - "Part-time Pro Lecture"
Howard Kahn, CFP - "Magicians & Taxes" Lecture
William H. McIlhany - "Magic & The Cinema" Lecture
Bill Spooner - "Magical Spoonerisms" Lecture
The other lecturers were Seabrooke, Thompson, and Fox and they are
beyond words anyhow.
I agree with you...at the big conventions...go...and if you don't
like it...just leave and go to the next one. We have no conflicting
events at the I.B.M., so folks don't have to make a choice.
Msg #18356 Dated 17:44:04 09-10-91 18122 <--> 18364
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Amen Pete! I think there is a great danger in overreacting and just
becoming another nice place to visit. Keep yelling and screaming but
stop the one-liners....well...most of them anyway.
Msg #18357 Dated 17:44:17 09-10-91 18127 <--> 18361
From: BILL WELLS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Thanks for the comment on convention lectures, Max. Actually, I
pulled out some past programs and discovered that I usually do add
additional information when the lecture is on a specialized topic or
the lecturer is not well known. An example was - Robert Bleumle -
"The Magic of Dr. Jaks" Lecture.
Msg #18358 Dated 17:44:31 09-10-91 18131 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: PINS
Bruce, I am posting Jerry Andrus' address for you in a private
message. Normally, Phone numbers and addresses of others are not
posted in public messages on bulletin boards out of respect of one's
privacy. Since I hadn't seen any other messages about needing the
address, I assumed someone had posted it to you in private. I am
giving you Jerry's address as he is an old friend and I know him well
enough to know that he wouldn't mind my giving it to a prospective
pin buyer. Good Luck and please give Jerry my regards.
Msg #18361 Dated 17:46:20 09-10-91 18140 <--> 18362
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Write ups on lectures or any other aspect of the I.B.M. convention
have not appeared in the LR in recent years because the convention
has been sold out months before the convention and because the sell
out could easily be predicted because of the high number of early
registrations. Since the LR has a waitin list for advertisers and
the number of total pages is limited not only by the amount of paper
that can be stapled, but also by postage cost and our not for profit
status (insofar as the number of ad pages). Since pages are at a
premium in the magazine, Howard did not want us "wasting" pages for
convention articles or extra ad pages unless the convention needed
them to induce registrations. When I have written articles, I HAVE
included information on lecturers and if they were specialized topics
, what the lectures were about.
If you refer to an earlier message to one Peter Biroitscough, you
will see that some information has been given in convention programs
regarding specialized lectures. However, I also note that no added
information was given regarding the lectures of the likes of Karrell
Fox, Johnny Thompson, Terry Seabrooke, or someone named Pete Biro. I
would also add that if advance information on those folks played a
part in the a magician's decision to attend then they probably would
not get much out of the lecture anyhow. Please note that I did not
use the word "magicalumpen".
Msg #18362 Dated 17:47:17 09-10-91 18141 <--> 18363
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Jeweler's loupes and other vision aids at I.B.M. and other magic
conventions are likely due to the increasing ages of the magician
population in general rather than the souvenir program. Besides most
magicians don't read anyhow.
I think we have about talked this thing to death. Let me try to put
it to rest by saying that Pete will attempt to get some sort of
descriptions from the lecturers at the next I.B.M. and I will attempt
to use whatever we get to provide some sort of additional information
in the program althought it may only be a line or two. I do not see
a practical way to provide a short sysnopsis for 12 lectures at this
time, nor do I see it fulfilling any great need. For MAGIC! users,
Pete and/or I may be able to provide more information on the lecturer
s at the SLC convention.
Msg #18363 Dated 17:47:53 09-10-91 18143 <--> 18365
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I cannot help but note that Karrell Fox has described his I.B.M.
lecture for each of the last 18 years as "all new material". Does
that give you any inkling of what Karrell did at any of those
lectures?
Msg #18364 Dated 17:48:07 09-10-91 18147 <--> 18366
From: BILL WELLS
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
...after you run out of wrists, I would suggest ankles followed by
kneecaps.
Damn great quote!!!
Msg #18365 Dated 17:48:20 09-10-91 18150 <--> 18372
From: BILL WELLS
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I am not going to tell you what convention programs do unless you
show up at the next I.B.M. convention!
.
Please note this is another attempt at inside humor, however it is
the beginning of a serious attempt on my part to advise Pete Biro to
approach T.A. regarding the possibility of his being on the bill of
the SLC convention in some sort of performing, or lecturer role. If
this effort is successful then T.A. will have his own program and it
will have his name printed inside and the place, time, and location
of whatever he is going to do. Maybe even a photo. Maybe he can lip
synch his video tape.
Msg #18366 Dated 17:48:50 09-10-91 18165 <--> 18368
From: BILL WELLS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I fear we have opened a real pandora's box here. I found David's
original "bad vibes" message disheartening, but I also find a number
of things that concern me in your response.
First of all, let me say I agree with you on the need for new blood
and have already stated that concern a number of times here, but more
in relation to concerns about the impact of the subscription fee.
However, I do not feel that the main purpose of this board is to
serve as a forum for magic newcomers to learn about magic. I believe
that magic beginners CAN learn about magic here, but I do not believe
that is the primary or main purpose of this board. I don't think you
said that was the main purpose either, but I feel your comments imply
that it a primary purpose.
It is very distressing to me, than folks would be offended by use of
the term "magicalumpen". For goodness sake, I AM A MAGICALUMPEN! I
am certainly not offended. Frankly, if one has so little sense of
humor as to be offended by such a word, I am not too sure I have much
sympathy for them or much hope for their future in magic.
The great thing about bulletin boards is that you can quickly scan a
great deal of information and pick and choose what you want to spend
time on or become involved in by posting a response or a message. I
become concerned when I see suggestions or attemtps to restrict the
types of messages or the topics being addressed. If the jokes are
too inside, or the topics something you aren't interested in, then
simply skip over them. Please don't bury topics in private messages
or even into specialized conference areas. One doesn't try to eat
everything on the buffet table, just pick and choose what you like
here.
I think this is a happy place and I am VERY surprised to see comments
suggesting that is isn't. There must be some VERY thin skins here
that I don't know about....but I would hate to see the entire mood
and atmosphereofthis oard change to something like milktoast where
no body says anything that might be interpreted as criticism. In
fact I think that would bring a very quick death to this board.
I also hope that discussions of magic theory, history, anecdotes, and
related topics would continue as well as actual descriptions of
effects. I have no interest in being on this board if it is only a
listing place of how to do tricks. I also would hope that comments
and messages of a nonmagic nature continue. I happen to believe that
the complete human is a very important item and that many in magic
would greatly enhance their magical abilities if they expanded their
nonmagic capabilities. This board offers an excellent forum for that
expansion to be realized as well.
This is a meeting place. You can also smell the coffee. Rules and
restrictions will nail the door shut in very short order. There is a
lot of room in here for lots of different folks. Can't we loosen up
a bit and not be so damn serious. Magic is by its very nature a
clique...it should be! Why should anyone be guaranteed the right to
"share" all the participants knowledge by just signing on here? I am
certainly willing to share much of what I know with others, but I
also respect the rights of others NOT to share. I support the
position of Pete, Max, and others that it is NOT appropriate to
explain how Ricky does his version of the MacDonald Aces and any
newcomers or other person should be thankful that someone takes the
time to explain to him that it is NOT appropriate to do a routine
that is someone elses.
We got a great thing here. I hate to see it get warped and ruined.
...oh...and Evan...be careful about saying anything about near-dead
frogs...I know from experience that can get you into trouble...I
wish I had a cigar box too. Have you seen what they sell for now?
Msg #18368 Dated 17:51:38 09-10-91 18174 <--> 18369
From: BILL WELLS
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Jerry...great response...the best one yet! I think you have it...it
is really P&T doing the grippin'.
Msg #18369 Dated 17:51:48 09-10-91 18182 <--> 18370
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Beautiful Tabby!!
I don't want to sit at that table either!
...and I am beginning to fear it just MIGHT be a reflection
of some on this network.
Msg #18370 Dated 17:52:02 09-10-91 18189 <--> 18375
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I agree there is a VERY great danger of just that happening here...
....I think there is a very great deal of overreaction going on!
Msg #18371 Dated 17:52:11 09-10-91 18199 <--> 18404
From: BILL WELLS
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: RAMSAY
If you ever discover a film or tape with John Ramsay, PLEASE let me
know....I will do the same for you. Pete says he thinks he saw one
once.
Msg #18372 Dated 17:52:21 09-10-91 18211 <--> 18379
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
v?
Best to go to the lecture and ask him what he is gonna do just
before he lectures...and in your case Pete...even that might not get
a good answer.
* Note - private inside joke...no offense to innocent bystanders.
Msg #18374 Dated 18:33:39 09-10-91 18132 <--> 18488
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
Anything prior to Noon is before my time!
'W.
Msg #18375 Dated 18:43:37 09-10-91 18148 <--> 18388
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Harrumph!!!
Y'know, with the thread heading of "Bad Vibes," we probably should drop
the current subject matter and start discussing warped Herbie Mann
albums!
'W.
Msg #18376 Dated 18:51:15 09-10-91 18154 <--> 20108
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: NEW GENII
Is that backSLAPPING or backSTABBING?
(Heh, heh.)
'W.
Msg #18377 Dated 18:55:46 09-10-91 18225 <--> 18410
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TAOM CONVENTION
I understand that the orchestra pit was built by Prof. Irwin Corey!
'W.
Msg #18378 Dated 19:05:04 09-10-91 18317 <--> 18493
From: WAYNE POWERS
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: GOOD NEWS UPDATE
Guess I don't have to buy that towtruck after all.
'W.
Msg #18379 Dated 19:13:10 09-10-91 18361 <--> 18380
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
It sounds like the Linking Ring is put together in much the same manner
as school textbooks. Ever wonder why some, particularly math books,
had extra chapters at the back? It is so that they will fit in the
binding machine! And to think that some teachers actually plan their
curriculum by them - "If we aren't on page 125 by Xmas, we will never
finish the book..."
Meanwhile, MAGIC! is shopping for bigger, faster disk drives -
fortunately, we don't restrict messages to fit the available "pages."
Msg #18380 Dated 19:16:39 09-10-91 18362 <--> 18381
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
No, I don't dare go with the title of the thread, do I? Guess it would
be bad form to sieze on your statement that "Most magicians don't read
anyhow" and suggest that the convention program be put on video...
Msg #18381 Dated 19:18:01 09-10-91 18363 <--> 18386
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Personally, one of the most enjoyable magic bits I've seen was when
Karrell Fox brought a velvet bag onstage and said, "Would you like to
see my linking rings?" After everyone yelled in the affirmative, he
opened the bag and brought them out and said, "Here's June, July,
August..."
Aren't his lectures actually "all new material?"
Msg #18383 Dated 19:48:09 09-10-91 -> 18846
From: BRUCE SANDERCOCK
To: ALL
Re: PINS
Just hung up the phone with Jerry Andrus. My Pins are on the
way...thanks to Pete Biro & Bill Wells. Jerry tells me he's down to a
very few sets since they were manufactured in Korea, and he's lost his
contact. Also he doesn't want me to send him the money until I receive
the Pins. Great Guy!
Msg #18386 Dated 20:28:58 09-10-91 18379 <--> 18401
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Bill, Is harry Houdini the same one That lives (lived?) her e in Las
Vegas and works(worked?) for Melinda? If not , I'm soure he'd
like to know as he IS a direct descendent (Theo Hardeen's grandson). He
just legally changed his last name because nobody seems to remember
Hardeen anyway.
David (the other one)
Msg #18387 Dated 20:31:36 09-10-91 -> 18459
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: DOUG SMITH (X)
Re: CHEMICAL MAGIC
Doug,
Just ran across a reprint of Chemical Magic. It's at a shop called
Fools Paradise in Albuquerque, NM. They have a mailing list so I'm sure
they'd send it to you if you ask.
Fools Paradise
19 Winrock Center
Albuquerque, NM 87110
(505) 883-1587
ask for Ray
David (the onther one)
Msg #18388 Dated 20:34:06 09-10-91 18096 <--> 18389
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
David,
I, too, am disturbed by these comments, but I still don't see many
new names on line. They DO realize, don't they, that the only way
we know they're there is to say something? Maybe you can publicly
introduce newcomers to us so we can welcome them.
Maybe the atmosphere IS a little protective. As in most any magic
shop, the rule is not to give away secrets, but what most don't
realize is that the REAL secrets are here for the sharing, they
just don't see it yet! I, for one, hesitate to publicly EXPOSE
marketed effects for all to see, but at the same time, I've
PRIVATELY responded to a few requests, giving assistance when
needed, but only after I feel comfortable with the person. I still
don't wish to give things away freely.
It took several months of reading here before I got up the courage
to send some messages, believing, as Stan Lake does, that if I
can't contribute something constructive, I should keep quiet. That
doesn't mean I don't care, far from it! I support this board any
chance I get, and am constantly recommending it to anyone seriously
interested in the REAL WORKS (sorry Pete).
I've used Tabby's approach on numerous occasions to welcome new
members and chat privately with them when nobody else seems to want
to. (Maybe they answer privately too, I don't know) I do know, for
example, Mike Ammar doesn't chat a lot here but I've received some
very nice private letters from him that I consider well worth the
price of the network.
Another suggestion David, might be to implement the sections you
mentioned before allowing all "ALL" messages and their DIRECT
responses, and routing all other subthreads between respondents to
the "chat" section. This, combined with an occasional trick or
essay, may appease the ones afraid to "jump in".
I haven't tried the Spider Net yet, but from what I've heard, a
mixture of the two might work out. Their style of bulletins and
articles combined with our message base might just work.
I'm still a "beginner" compared to some here, and I welcome any and
all messages, public and private.
Oh, in response to Bruce on the pins, I don't know either, does
that help?
David (the other one)
Msg #18389 Dated 20:53:24 09-10-91 18388 <--> 18402
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. We will just have to see if the
recent responses help get the ball rolling for new members. Some of
the ones who expressed the original concerns either seldom log on (some
were frequent users before) or they have left and made their concerns
known only in "exit comments."
I think that the "air" should be sufficiently clear now that I have
shared the comments and so many of our MAGIC! members have responded.
I'm going to work on posting this thread as a file so that new members
can look it over.
Msg #18393 Dated 22:39:59 09-10-91 -> 18564
From: WAYNE SKENES
To: ALL
Re: LESSONS??
I am currently looking for a teacher of coin magic.. However, I am
limited in monetary funds. I live in the Fullerton - Anaheim area, and
I will commute as far as L.A. Please contact me and I will discuss
price....
Thanks.... Adios.
Msg #18396 Dated 23:25:37 09-10-91 18300 <--> 18509
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BOOKS AND ALL
If he has a tape, like to see. Either have him send or give me
an address or number... tanks el tabooooo
Msg #18397 Dated 23:25:43 09-10-91 18310 <--> 18470
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: NEW MAGAZINE
I almost missed a plane one day reading and replying to dum bassed
messages....argh....
Msg #18398 Dated 23:25:48 09-10-91 18316 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: CARNEY IN EUROPE????
You missed him at FISM?????
Msg #18399 Dated 23:25:53 09-10-91 18319 <--> 18424
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TV
Hammers and nails?
Msg #18400 Dated 23:25:58 09-10-91 18320 <--> 18425
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: CLASSIC
I know, the flies around it land on the cards?
Msg #18401 Dated 23:26:03 09-10-91 18322 <--> 18408
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I have a tape.... wanna buy it? Honest!
Msg #18402 Dated 23:26:09 09-10-91 18327 <--> 18406
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
If you look both ways before crossing the street you won't have no
fun.... in England you must look the wrong way first. Same in Japan.
Msg #18403 Dated 23:26:16 09-10-91 18342 <--> 18419
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
I knew you would be the one to tell me! What do you know of the
super piggee????
Ok, don't forget to tell Tabby the content, degree of difficulty
and other assorted stuff about your work at the Music City whatever.
Msg #18404 Dated 23:26:24 09-10-91 18343 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: RAMSAY
Great.... Ramsay would say it that way, woun' eh'
Msg #18405 Dated 23:26:28 09-10-91 18348 <--> 18491
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ZELLA
Thanks for the Zella trivia... kinda like NEMO at Ken
Brooke's Magic Place...
Msg #18406 Dated 23:26:34 09-10-91 18352 <--> 18414
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
You got to tell us the board you met your wonderful wife on!
Msg #18408 Dated 23:26:44 09-10-91 18355 <--> 18411
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
We hit the nail on the olde head... a move in my lecture notes.
Msg #18409 Dated 23:26:49 09-10-91 -> 18513
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: BAD MARIMBAS
Ee;18375
How do you warp a Herbie Mann album? Leave it out in the sunlight?
Oh, Tabby is making a few limited quantity Houlettes in rosewood
for the trick you are interested in. Wait about a month before you
ask him, tho... he too busy right now. And gots to move.
Msg #18410 Dated 23:27:00 09-10-91 18377 <--> 19964
From: PETE BIRO
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: TAOM CONVENTION
I has yet to get my Genii, so will have to wait to get the gist of
the bit.... Hey, when I was 16 I used to do Victor Borga's Phonetic
Punctuation routine. But I didn't put it in print...
Msg #18411 Dated 23:27:07 09-10-91 18379 <--> 18413
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I talked to a guy tonight with 120 meg of RAM!
Msg #18413 Dated 23:27:18 09-10-91 18386 <--> 18420
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I didn't know he changed his name. Met him last year. Well, if he
does something famous then he can make the name Hardeen a known one.
Msg #18414 Dated 23:27:24 09-10-91 18388 <--> 18415
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Good idea of introducing any new members... mabye it should be
mandatory for all new folks to do about 10 lines saying howdy,
where they are from, the kind of magic they like to see and the
kind they do!
.
I'll start it.
Live in Walnut Creek, Calif., (near Oakland, home of the original
Raiders) -- do you know that Robt. Albo is one of the Raider Team
doctors... same Albo with the great magic books and collection.
I like all forms of magic. Hate copycats and those that do the
stuff the way it comes from the dealer instructions.
My performing covers both close up and stand up. Primarily worked
stand up in Comedy Clubs for a long time... before that did a
billion or so shows at the Magic Cellar in San Francisco. Then
moved to So. Calif. Worked Castle, Comedy Magic Club in Hermosa,
Laff Stops in a few cities and did some trade shows, but back
trouble (I had polio at age 27 -- the week the Salk Vaccine came
out) was too bad to stand and work all day. So concentrated on
making my living as a sports (mostly auto racing) photographer.
Had pix in Time, Life, Sports Illustrated (Raider games too) and
all the main car magazines. Primarily do work for Goodyear tire
co., now and some work for Ford, Jeep and Chevy.
Have lectured from Europe to Japan and alot of US cities in between.
Lecture stuff is mostly parlour stuff with little need for great
skill. I like the Don Alan approach, to use gaffs and funny stuff
when working close up.
Favorite dealers were Ken Brooke, Marvin Burger and Al Flosso.
Can't stand Tannens. Like Abbotts and the old Sterling catalog.
Current dealer I work with is Joe Stevens.
Last few years have been in charge of selection of talent for all
the IBM Conventions (love the job) and am on Board of Directors
for the Desert Magic Seminar.
Used to work for Lloyd Jones (Byron Walker too worked for Lloyd)
and also was assistant in Midnight Spook Show, "Francisco's" and
travelled on road for a couple of years doing that.
Life Member (what a bargain) of the Magic Castle. Just divorced
and now back into practicing magic again. Believe it takes doing
in front of people to rehearse... tricks change when someone is
watching!!!! More than you realize.
What else can I bore you with?
OK, that is a start, I wanna see more from all youse out there.
OH, you can't offend me. I take nothing serious no more! We are
not doing brain surgery here.
Msg #18415 Dated 23:28:07 09-10-91 18389 <--> 18417
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
You know I bet that a lot of members don't take advantage of the
FILES area.... you got to look in there once in awhile. Hey, David,
how about posting updates on the files (and the old whole list)
once in awhile?
Also WHAT KAPS LETTER ARE YOU UP TO? LET ME KNOW AND I WILL DO IT!
PLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
" I heard a lot of folks quit when they stopped getting the Kaps
letters "..... arhg?
Msg #18417 Dated 23:38:44 09-10-91 18174 <--> 18418
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Not to be contrary, Jerry, but it is my perception that the board is
significantly more inside-joke oriented and cliquish than it was six
months ago. So yes, you an I were new members once -- at an easier,
more open time.
Msg #18418 Dated 23:41:06 09-10-91 18218 <--> 18421
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I am waiting for the "near-dead frog" reference to come back to haunt
me. Hopefully there's so much OTHER material in that looong message
worthy of comment that u-know-who will pass right over it.
Really believe that? Gribbit.
Msg #18419 Dated 23:54:51 09-10-91 18328 <--> 18455
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
Don't worry, Marvin, I will post John Carney's address as soon as I can
find it. It's somwhere in a large pile of stuff, will take a few hours
to go through, but if you need the address, I'll put the time in to
look for it. Anything for a friend.
Msg #18420 Dated 0:05:18 09-11-91 18411 <--> 18426
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
That's funny. I was at a bar tonight and rammed a guy with 120 megs of
talk.
Msg #18421 Dated 0:08:04 09-11-91 18293 <--> 18422
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Hey -- that's funny!
Msg #18422 Dated 0:09:44 09-11-91 18294 <--> 18423
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
You listen to Ruch Limbaugh too? I hope you listen to him for the same
reason I do -- that I CAN'T STAND HIM! His politics are to the right
of... I don't want to say, and I've caught him in more intellectually
dishonest positions than I can count.
Msg #18423 Dated 0:11:46 09-11-91 18352 <--> 18429
From: EVAN KATZ
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Your intentions are the best, Bill, but I think you're taking David's
statement -- that there is a WIDELY REPORTED problem, and ignoring it.
Rose-colored glasses and all, you may be happy with the way things are,
but enough people are not that the SYSOP has saw fit to post a policy
message on it. You of course have every right to feel there's no
problem, but let's not invalidate David's message. Having a healthy
board is more important than slapping ourselves on the back.
Msg #18424 Dated 0:16:22 09-11-91 18399 <--> 18437
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TV
OK, Pete, since you can never keep track of messages:
I wrote: "Television, in the wrong hands, can be a deadly medium.
Video, however, is a totally different medium - it just uses some of
the same tools."
You wrote: "Hammers and nails?"
Now I write: "No, sleights and misdirection."
Msg #18425 Dated 0:18:57 09-11-91 18400 <--> 18551
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CLASSIC
No - for the card location using the bovine patty method you don't need
the flies - you can use the scratch n' sniff method.
Msg #18426 Dated 0:19:44 09-11-91 18401 <--> 18427
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Do you really have a tape of _the_ Pete Biro? Performance or lecture?
Doesn't matter - name your price!
Msg #18427 Dated 0:21:17 09-11-91 18411 <--> 18428
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I think I have 120 Meg of RAM - just don't have it all in any one
machine. We do, however, have a stuffed animal that we named "64K
RAM."
Msg #18428 Dated 0:22:39 09-11-91 18427 <--> 18441
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
You know, Biro-san, you just gave me a GREAT idea! Everyone always
talks about the lack of success in using obvious computers in acts
(note that I am not referring to the ones that can actually run the act
or the stage or the lights) - but why not use COMPUTER PARTS in an act?
A RAM chip is a pretty neat looking prop!
Msg #18429 Dated 0:25:18 09-11-91 18402 <--> 18430
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Yeah, in England and Japan you have to look the wrong way first. And
in Israel you look the right way, but the cars go in reverse.
Msg #18430 Dated 0:27:49 09-11-91 18414 <--> 18431
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Gee, among your credits you might have mentioned that you are a member
of the MAGIC! Advisory Board and that you were co-recipient, last year,
of MAGIC!'s first Golden Diskette Award (Tabby Crabb was the other
recipient).
I WOULD like to see more people post their background info as you did,
but I do not think that it should be mandatory. I made the mistake
once of announcing the presence of a new member and they didn't seem to
happy about it. It is perfectly OK for people to "lurk" until they
feel like saying something. We should welcome them when they choose to
speak.
Msg #18431 Dated 0:20:23 09-11-91 18366 <--> 18432
From: EVAN KATZ
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
In response to the MANY points in your message:
1) The implication that this board should serve as a learning tool for
newcomers is entirely yours. I am talking about people who are not
loud mouths, who do not feel like breaking into conversations that are
essentially in-jokes, and who keep quiet because they have seen people
hurl ugly words. The very fact that you should bring up that notion
that MAGIC! should not be for newcomers is indiciative of a pervasive
snobbery that is, I think, at the heart of the problem. IMHO, MAGIC!
should serve people of all levels of interest. That doesn't mean it
should be a learning tool. It means that a kid from Milwaukee should
be able to suggest something or post a question without fear of having
people fly down his throat.
To further focus my point, my remarks do not imply that educating
newcomers should be MAGIC!'s purpose any more than I think MAGIC!'s
purpose should be a forum for a back-slapping, mutual admiration
soceity for a very small group of professional and semi-pro's. It
should be many things to many different people. It already is more
than one thing to one group, but it IS cliquiish.
2) You may, if you wish, refer to yourself as a "magicalumpen." It is,
however, a term used with some disdain (by others than yourself), and
rules of etiqutte should compell you from using it to describe OTHERS.
You may have a special, secret definition for the word, but it is an
overall derrogatroy term.
3) There is a difference between having a "thin skin" and being
cliquish and stand-offish. I don't believe David accused anyone of
being offensive -- that is missing the point.
4) No one is suggesting that we post Ricky Jay's routine for the
MacDonald Aces here. I don't know why this is relevant. Citing the
appropriate texts (which was done) is the appropriate response. Also
appropriate was the more detailed, sophisticated discussion that looped
around here a few months ago, with contributions from Ammar and Biro.
5) No one suggested that anyone had the right to share the participants
knowledge when they signed on here. You are reading your
fears into my message.
6) The use of "near-dead frogs" has already come back to haunt me. I
rue the day I typed those words.
Msg #18432 Dated 0:30:51 09-11-91 18415 <--> 18433
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Will look at Kaps letter list and let you know. I believe that I have
now been able to restore most of the letters from the crashed hard
drive and might be able to do it from here again.
There are, indeed, a lot of great files in the files area! The whole
list can be seen at one time by listing area 13 (a MAGIC! number), or
the various types of files can be listed individually using the
categories that appear in the files area. I do try to post a message
when a new file is uploaded, but THANK YOU for mentioning it.
Msg #18433 Dated 0:33:55 09-11-91 18418 <--> 18434
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
"You-know-who" saw it. It was not ignored, but rather than post any
comment about the frog gambit I decided that the message was of such
significance that I would merely place a small tickmark next to the
name Evan Katz in the MAGIG! record book.
Msg #18434 Dated 0:34:26 09-11-91 18389 <--> 18435
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
David (the other one):
Just wanted to make one point:
I don't think anyone should give away any secrets they don't wish to,
and certainly not give anyone else's secrets away under any
circumstances, BUT don't forget we live in a time where ANY interested
party can walk into Hollywood Magic and purchase any published secret.
The only thing protecting the art from intrusion is that more people
just really aren't interested enough in finding out "how it's done" to
actually do this. I submit that only an interested party would call up
and register on MAGIC!
Msg #18435 Dated 0:37:57 09-11-91 18414 <--> 18439
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Cool message, Pete! Getting bio info from all new members IS an
excellent idea, an ice breaker.
Msg #18437 Dated 0:41:16 09-11-91 18424 <--> 18438
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TV
Now I write: "Soap bars and oral thermometers."
Msg #18438 Dated 0:43:02 09-11-91 18437 <--> 18550
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: TV
Whew! I'm rather glad you wrote _oral_ thermometers, Evan! It keeps
me from babling about the way television has rectalled our society.
Msg #18439 Dated 0:44:55 09-11-91 18429 <--> 18443
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Chink-a-chink with outmoded 8088 chips?
Msg #18440 Dated 0:46:12 09-11-91 18308 <--> 18466
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Big Island?
Msg #18441 Dated 0:46:24 09-11-91 18357 <--> 18442
From: EVAN KATZ
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I'm curious -- how much more information did you give on "The Magic of
Dr. Jaks" lecture?
Msg #18443 Dated 0:48:39 09-11-91 18439 <--> 18451
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Good idea, Evan! Do it with something people can relate to! I was
thinking of using a chip in a card location or something like that.
Will post an effect if I come up with one I like.
Msg #18446 Dated 0:51:29 09-11-91 18196 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: BANNON
Thank you, Charlie, for the info.
Msg #18448 Dated 0:52:19 09-11-91 18253 <--> 18473
From: EVAN KATZ
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: FLASHING FINGERTIPS
Thank you for the info. I really do think I'll get there this year!
Msg #18450 Dated 1:17:13 09-11-91 18365 <--> 18468
From: T A WATERS
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Howsabout we just run a tape of me and I sit in the back of the room
making nasty comments about myself?
Msg #18451 Dated 1:23:13 09-11-91 18264 <--> 18452
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
First I would ask the guy what he wanted the water FOR...
Msg #18452 Dated 1:27:04 09-11-91 18375 <--> 18456
From: T A WATERS
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Herbie Mann? I dunno anything past Shorty Rogers...
Msg #18453 Dated 1:39:40 09-11-91 -> 18454
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: IN PRINT
T A:
What of yours is in print these days? Please advise.
Msg #18454 Dated 1:48:43 09-11-91 18453 <--> 18463
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: IN PRINT
At the moment, nothing; within the year, everything -- in one very
large book.
Msg #18455 Dated 1:54:49 09-11-91 18145 <--> 18462
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
I was sitting in the second row and a guy in the first row had an
audio tape recorder going right in plain view. No video and no
photos.
Msg #18456 Dated 1:54:55 09-11-91 18402 <--> 18465
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
Boy you brought up an old memory with the looking both ways in
England, almost got my self killed there several times. I was raised
in Missour1 and there you cross the street one direction at a time,
jay walking is not considered a bad thing and to cross the street
you only have get half way across and then wait in the middle for
the other traffic to clear. That can get you killed in England.
Msg #18457 Dated 1:55:04 09-11-91 18220 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DOUG SMITH (X)
Re: STAGE FOG
Labs no longer use rats, they now use attorneys. They will do things
rats won't.
Msg #18458 Dated 1:55:08 09-11-91 18291 <--> 18475
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
100x24x36 You've got to be kidding ! My fax is 714-535-5432.
Msg #18459 Dated 4:28:35 09-11-91 18387 <-
From: DOUG SMITH
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: CHEMICAL MAGIC
Thanks for the info on"Chemical mAGIC." The material printed for
teachers is relatively limited when compared to magic. It is
unfortunate that teachers never get input on what it takes to do good
demonstration. There are a number of people who will do hour long
"shows" that have no theme, planning, or practice and could be
tightened to about 25 minutes. My talk next month to Illinois
Chemistry teachers will mention some of those concerns, but again I
like to show how to use magic for problem solving, - intyerest
generation, fun, and creating learning atmosphere. it is interesting
to note the number of ways they can find how to do an effecwhen you
give extra credit for it. It is like when we watch someone
dosomething and we get a similiar effect by a differeent method.
Msg #18460 Dated 9:07:27 09-11-91
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WATER, WATER, T A WATERS
Don't you feel you are intruding on his right to use the water in a
creative manner? Suppose art supply stores retained the right to
preapprove the sale of paint based on what the artist was going to do
with it? Or suppose magic dealers refused to sell a trick until the
purchasor divulged how it would be used?
Msg #18462 Dated 9:13:40 09-11-91 18455 <--> 18512
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: JOHN CARNEY LECTURE
There is some guy who usually does sit in the front row at the Castle
lectures with an audio tape recorder in plain view. I don't know if he
is an "official" recorder or some such thing.
Msg #18463 Dated 9:16:48 09-11-91 18454 <--> 18542
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: IN PRINT
Please place me on the list for a deluxe edition, T. A. The big book
sounds very nice, but don't you think you are "a tad young for a career
retrospective?"
Msg #18465 Dated 10:05:28 09-11-91 18265 <--> 18495
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
If complaints are lodged and names are named, it might be worthwhile
considering a private communication to those involved particularily
if only 2 or 3 people are involved.
Msg #18466 Dated 10:05:45 09-11-91 18280 <--> 18476
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
What is a pink FOOTBALL CAP? What league does THAT team play in?
Msg #18467 Dated 10:05:52 09-11-91 18281 <--> 18481
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Generally speaking, you don't hold no break with peas and jowl until
you git to the collards. At that point, a brief break is advisable
jest to ketch yer breath.
Msg #18468 Dated 10:05:58 09-11-91 18282 <--> 18469
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
Didn't realize you were a football fan...and after seeing the teams
you mentioned as good, I see that I was correct. Just be thankful
that the Skin's let you have a decent quarterback.
Msg #18469 Dated 10:06:10 09-11-91 18283 <--> 18490
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I wasn't really talking selling yourself as a lecturer. I was
talking about audience preparation either by advance material in the
advertising or your introductory remarks.
Msg #18470 Dated 10:06:20 09-11-91 18284 <--> 18482
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: NEW MAGAZINE
Yes, tab and me were speaking of the new mag. We were saying anythin
g about knowing whether it fared well or bad...cause we don't know.
We were talking about the ad rates and wondering if he should have
started a little lower than he did.
Msg #18471 Dated 10:06:30 09-11-91 18285 <--> 18526
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HUNDRED DOLLAR THREAD
I have never seen a picture of him in a hat...pence or not. I have
seen photos of him in an apron.
Msg #18472 Dated 10:06:37 09-11-91 18286 <--> 18486
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRIX
You did FAX me the photo of the 100" bust....my FAX is still running!
.
I would like to see Sheets do the bra trick with HER!
Msg #18473 Dated 10:06:49 09-11-91 18287 <--> 18894
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: FLASHING FINGERTIPS
I am sure you had a great time with Leno. He is such a class act.
Msg #18474 Dated 10:06:54 09-11-91 18289 <--> 18485
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: COINS ACROSS
I can't remember the name, but he was the one I had to talk Amy into
being OK for the contest when we thought he was entering.
Msg #18475 Dated 10:07:01 09-11-91 18291 <--> 18563
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ABBOTTS - DAY 4
I did! It was even horrible in the dark...was that photo real??
Msg #18476 Dated 10:07:07 09-11-91 18304 <--> 18480
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Are you gonna start your own team down there with all those pink
ball caps?
Msg #18477 Dated 10:07:16 09-11-91 18305 <--> 18479
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
You are correct! I am in the process of checking it out. I want to
at least meet the guy.....also don't want to be responsible if his
dues are in arears.
Msg #18478 Dated 10:07:25 09-11-91 18306 <--> 18518
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: NEW COIN IDEA
Working on a visit sometime this month if at all possible!
Msg #18479 Dated 10:07:32 09-11-91 18307 <--> 18484
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
Not apple pie from Helga's....soup and sausages!!
Msg #18480 Dated 10:07:37 09-11-91 18308 <--> 18483
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Anytime you want to visit the Big Island is OK by me...I would live
there in a flash.
Msg #18481 Dated 10:07:46 09-11-91 18309 <--> 18521
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: VIDEOS
But it has to be a pone of Cracklin' bread. A little collards or
even mustard greens on the side ain't bad either.
Msg #18482 Dated 10:07:53 09-11-91 18310 <--> 18510
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: NEW MAGAZINE
Jest hard copy 'em and take them on the plane with you. That way you
can fully digest them and fully appreciate their great wisdom.
Msg #18483 Dated 10:08:01 09-11-91 18330 <--> 18496
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
Could be that a couple of corpse are going down there to exhume any
thing they can find...you never know, particularly with all the
chinese troupe that are down there.
Msg #18484 Dated 10:08:11 09-11-91 18331 <--> 18500
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MY FIRST INVENTION
Its a mystery to me....I just don't want to have to pay his back dues
Msg #18485 Date 10:08:18 09-11-91 18333 <--> 18499
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: COINS ACROSS
Except for me...with the active kids and all. When I sit down to
start ruminating...I am so tired that I ruminate right to sleep!
Msg #18486 Dated 10:08:25 09-11-91 18335 <--> 18498
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TRIX
Bob certainly came as close to being acceptable with the performance
of that effect as anyone I have ever seen. Now if I can get Sheets a
nd the girl in the photo that Pete just FAXed me together....
Msg #18488 Dated 10:08:41 09-11-91 18338 <--> 18501
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: VIDEO AGAIN
I think whomever had to edit that tape would be at it for days...you
just can't imagine how much he knows....and how much stuff he has to
talk about.
Msg #18490 Dated 10:09:06 09-11-91 18344 <--> 18497
From: BILL WELLS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I have seen the concept of large props used by a few lecturers. Also
Liebenow and Kaps used film. I don't recall any using tape, slides
(except historical lectures), or overhead projectors. You are
correct in saying that many audiovisual aids do NOT lend themselves
well to magic lectures.
Msg #18491 Dated 10:09:23 09-11-91 18348 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ZELLA
I keep remembering these stories after you tell them...I guess I am
getting senile. The U.F.Grant "Zella" stories reminds me of the
magicians Tannen's used to dream up to use when they wanted to rip
off a trick and credit it to someone else in their ads.
Msg #18492 Dated 11:03:28 09-11-91 18351 <--> 18503
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: GOOD NEWS
If you don't find the article, I can mail a copy to you. Let me know.
Msg #18493 Dated 11:05:19 09-11-91 18378 <--> 18771
From: MARVIN STERN
To: WAYNE POWERS (X)
Re: GOOD NEWS UPDATE
Thought the vehicle you bought while on vaction was a tow-truck.
Msg #18495 Dated 12:27:39 09-11-91 18465 <--> 18505
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: BAD VIBES
I felt that the issue concerned everyone and that it should be brought
to everyone's attention.
Msg #18496 Dated 12:29:51 09-11-91 18483 <--> 18516
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: ROTH REVIEW
I'm steering clear of this discussion - far too dangerous for me! If
I wanted to do death defying magic I'd take up bullet catching.
Msg #18497 Dated 12:33:07 09-11-91 18490 <--> 18504
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: VIDEOS
I've used an overhead projector as part of an effect. The overhead
formed a "stage" on which I used some manipulatives. The focused image
on the screen allowed me to do the effect for a large group and
actually made for a better presentation than the close-up version.
Will check my notes and see if I can put it together.
Msg #18498 Dated 12:39:21 09-11-91 18486 <--> 18523
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: TRIX
I haven't seen the picture, but something tells me that she could do
the effect WITHOUT Mr. Sheets.
Msg #18499 Dated 12:41:58 09-11-91 18485 <--> 18870
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: COINS ACROSS
Yeah, tell me about active kids! Mine is about to be three years old.
In his spare time he has planned his entire birthday party, selected
his gifts, and had time left over to meet with Biro to work on his act.
=== END OF MAGIC-57 ===
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